ALL THINGS TRANSFORMERS!!!!

[Silasya77]

I go to see them for the good work ILM does.

Word. :

The tf movies, at the end of the day, are not shakespeare.

 

[YoNoSe]

If I ever decide I want to make a movie about huge, jumbled balls of wires and parts rolling around, I definitely know who I'll go to for the effects.

The character design is a separate issue since it is more driven by the director's taste. I totally agree that some of the stuff, particularly the end battle in part one, is like watching somebody throw a bucket of grey Legos in the air.

I think they got much better at differentiating them in the following movies and even if I didn't always understand WHY the robots were doing what they were doing, I always knew who they were and which end their ass was on. By part 3 I really did enjoy certain character design elements, like Megatron's Phantom of the Opera look (DOTM Voyager Megatron is the only movie TF I own) and I also liked some of the robot characters like Laserbeak.

They are what they are. I wish they were different but they do entertain me while I watch them. I'm from NY and I find there's a certain terror/catharsis combination to seeing a building collapse up close without being in the mother____er. Michael Bay is certainly the master of industrial gore.

 

[Centrocal]

 

[Dubcustomz]

lol, they both look so short and stumpy.

 

[bcm77]

Nice! Long Haul will look great with a Decepticon logo on his grill

 

[DPrime]

I think they look great, personally.

The character design is a separate issue since it is more driven by the director's taste. I totally agree that some of the stuff, particularly the end battle in part one, is like watching somebody throw a bucket of grey Legos in the air.

lol, that's the best comparison I've heard in a while...

I'm kind of torn on the whole Optimus being a wanton killer thing... But Prime taking joy in killing his enemies and making quips about ripping faces off is definitely no Prime I know or want to know about.

Hmm, I don't think it was THAT bad. He wasn't a "wanton killer" - I don't remember him being particularly happy about killing Sentinel Prime.

 

[bcm77]

I managed to snap a few pics of Scavenger before it started raining,

With a Deluxe,

With a Voyager,

With an Ultra,

Action shot!

 

[Silent Bob]

keeping it in the tone of this thread, Dark of the moon, and revenge of the fallen are some pretty good examples.
Smallville in it's later season ( i know that's television, not film, but the influence is pretty clear)



Except he's not. Prime's not a soldier. He's a bot standing up for his ideals. He BECAME a soldier out of necessity, nothing more.
Orion Pax was a librarian, a researcher, and a cataloger.
In the current idw continuity, he was a cop.
He BECAME a prime, because he was in the right place at the right time.

I understand that in Bay's universe that may not be the case, but it's those expiences and that backstory that makes him who he is.

Showing NO remorse for killing? That's NOT a soldier's trait. that's a Deception trait.

Yes, I get that in a kill or bee killed situation, you may not feel it right away. but eventually PTSD sets in.
unless you're part of the sociopathic 2%

I see what you mean. Darker is ok in context and in relation to the character. Dark and edgy for the sake of it doesn't work, like in the (awful) Daredevil movie where he lets the guy get hit by the train for "vengence". Out of character and out of place.

Your view on Prime matches mine mate. Agree 100%

I'm kind of torn on the whole Optimus being a wanton killer thing. My basis for love of TFs is the G1 cartoons and toys. That Prime is the Prime that I know of as Prime, and of course, he wouldn't kill indiscriminately (though he would and did severely injure many in the TF movie). But if you're gonna move it to the real world, thinking of the analogy of GI Joe, in war, killing is sometimes necessary.

I haven't seen the 3rd TF movie and (thankfully) only vaguely remember the 2nd one, so I don't know exactly what he does or how he does it apart from what I read here. But Prime taking joy in killing his enemies and making quips about ripping faces off is definitely no Prime I know or want to know about.

I agree and have no problem with Prime taking enemies down on the battlefield. In the middle of a fight to protect those that can't protect themselves. I've not seen the 3rd movie either, but I can even understand him taking down "the big bad" Megatron in order to try and finish the war, as a final resort, but it should be reluctantly and something that would effect him.

Shooting an unarmed, restrained enemy in the face............ Not my Prime thanks.

Keyword is WAS. Optimus has become hardened after millions of years of war, and he has seen the danger of the Decepticons. He has become a "fight fire with fire" type soldier, and I mean soldier, because that is the only and best way he has learned to deal with these Decepticons.

As above. It's primes lack of compassion and regret for having to do this that I don't like. He comes off like a Decepticon to me .


Bob

 

[lerath666]

Keyword is WAS. Optimus has become hardened after millions of years of war, and he has seen the danger of the Decepticons. He has become a "fight fire with fire" type soldier, and I mean soldier, because that is the only and best way he has learned to deal with these Decepticons.

The thing is, Bay's version is the ONLY version who has lost sight of who he is because of the ravages of war, thus making him the weakest version of prime we've seen to date. He's allowed his vision and beliefs to become compramised. He's become JUST AS BAD as sentianl prime and megs, by starting to believe that the ends justify the means.

The in essence, He's stopped being Batman, and become the Punisher.


Yes, it makes for some cool action scenes, yes it makes for a (visually) cool film, but it compromises WHO the character is.

Hell, in the IDW comics, the Reason Bee becomes the leader of the autobots, is BECAUSE Optimus starts to doubt his clarity of vision. He feels he MIGHT be loosing his moral compass, and as such, is no longer fit to lead the autobot cause, and steps down.

anyways, you wanted to know what my beef with the bay films was, I just gave you a chunk of it



And speaking of prime analogies with other comics,

 

[Silent Bob]

I managed to snap a few pics of Scavenger before it started raining,

With a Deluxe,

With a Voyager,

With an Ultra,

Action shot!

Great shots mate !!! I like the "scorpion tail" set up
You need to get a con badge on that bad boy, which reminds me I need to get to reprolabels as I am running low............

Nice work my friend.
"Longhaul is looking GREAT and hopefully pics of the last two tomorrow

Bob

 

[Silent Bob]

The thing is, Bay's version is the ONLY version who has lost sight of who he is because of the ravages of war, thus making him the weakest version of prime we've seen to date. He's allowed his vision and beliefs to become compramised. He's become JUST AS BAD as sentianl prime and megs, by starting to believe that the ends justify the means.

The in essence, He's stopped being Batman, and become the Punisher.


Yes, it makes for some cool action scenes, yes it makes for a (visually) cool film, but it compromises WHO the character is.

Hell, in the IDW comics, the Reason Bee becomes the leader of the autobots, is BECAUSE Optimus starts to doubt his clarity of vision. He feels he MIGHT be loosing his moral compass, and as such, is no longer fit to lead the autobot cause, and steps down.

anyways, you wanted to know what my beef with the bay films was, I just gave you a chunk of it



And speaking of prime analogies with other comics,

Spot on !!!!

Bays Prime "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, unless they piss me off, then ill have their face (for my face collection)"

Bob

 

[Silasya77]

As above. It's primes lack of compassion and regret for having to do this that I don't like. He comes off like a Decepticon to me .


Bob

Ah. I get your point. I did myself feel like he should've at least hesitated a while before dispatching Megatron, too. Other than that though, I felt like mostly every line he said to every other baddy was appropriate. Taking down Demolisher, he dispatched him mercilessly as Demolisher obviously was a valiant fighter in the Decepticon cause, even talking back to Prime as he stared death in the face.

The Fallen, well, the dude posed both a physical threat AND a plan far greater than even Sentinel. Destroying the Sun would've meant complete destruction of all life on Earth. Optimus had no background on the character, other than the fact that he was the epitome of evil. He didn't hesitate for one second thinking there might be good in the Fallen, which he did to Sentinel.

The "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" I think was just an attempt on Bay's part to create an awesome one liner as Optimus dispatched the Fallen. Optimus was dead, and you'd think coming back to life would be joyful with a hole in your chest. He must've been angry as hell at what happened, angry as hell that the Fallen was threatening humanity, of which he sworn to protect, and angry at himself for letting Megatron, under the Fallen's orders, get to him.

Right at that moment Optimus was definitely in no mood to play. Getting Jetfire's power just sustained his rage long enough for him to be rid the threat against Earth.

 

[King Darkness]

Not to mention Prime lets thousands of innocent humans die, just so he can show us how much we need the Autobots. Boarding on megalomaniac status there.


I agree 100% with lerath666's post and yours as well Bob.

 

[Silasya77]

The in essence, He's stopped being Batman, and become the Punisher.

[/IMG]

THIS I get, but at the end of the day, both of them are heroes, of which only one of them uses a more effective way to get the job done.

As per the fact that Bay's Prime is completely different from other Primes, I'll skip the "but it's not geewun" route, and remind you that the movieverse's Megatron doesn't have a bunch of a dozen henchmen. This dude has an army.

As for the part that he's essentially no better than Sentinel and Megatron, I guess I agree in that sense, but his ideal is what makes movieverse Prime the hero.

He's not the conventional good because he does no wrong kinda good, but the good because his opposition is bad kinda good. The one that is not justified by his actions, but by his ideals. In this case, to protect the human race, no matter the cost.

Kinda like James Bond, the Punisher (as mentioned previously), Dirty Harry... you get my point.

 

[Silasya77]

Not to mention Prime lets thousands of innocent humans die, just so he can show us how much we need the Autobots. Boarding on megalomaniac status there.


I agree 100% with lerath666's post and yours as well Bob.

Alright, that part I can understand... didn't get the "let thousands of humans die while I show you how much you need me" thing, either.

 

[Silent Bob]

THIS I get, but at the end of the day, both of them are heroes, of which only one of them uses a more effective way to get the job done.

As per the fact that Bay's Prime is completely different from other Primes, I'll skip the "but it's not geewun" route, and remind you that the movieverse's Megatron doesn't have a bunch of a dozen henchmen. This dude has an army.

As for the part that he's essentially no better than Sentinel and Megatron, I guess I agree in that sense, but his ideal is what makes movieverse Prime the hero.

He's not the conventional good because he does no wrong kinda good, but the good because his opposition is bad kinda good. The one that is not justified by his actions, but by his ideals. In this case, to protect the human race, no matter the cost.

Kinda like James Bond, the Punisher (as mentioned previously), Dirty Harry... you get my point.

Yeah, Bays Prime really does fit the "Anti-hero" mold of Punisher and Dirty Harry much more than a conventional hero. Some of his actions in the movies were questionable at best.

All power to those that like that new direction. I just think some of us don't think that's what Prime should be.
Other Autobots could take that role and it would work really well.
Prime was always the Autobots moral compass and stood for more. He kept the Autobots from becoming to much like those they were fighting due to his compassion and respect for ALL life, even his enemies.

In the same way I wouldn't want to see Superman vaporise Luther with his heat vision (because it would save a lot of trouble in the long run) I don't want to see Prime executing fallen, beaten enemies.




Bob

 

[Silasya77]

Yeah, Bays Prime really does fit the "Anti-hero" mold of Punisher and Dirty Harry much more than a conventional hero. Some of his actions in the movies were questionable at best.

All power to those that like that new direction. I just think some of us don't think that's what Prime should be.
Other Autobots could take that role and it would work really well.
Prime was always the Autobots moral compass and stood for more. He kept the Autobots from becoming to much like those they were fighting due to his compassion and respect for ALL life, even his enemies.

In the same way I wouldn't want to see Superman vaporise Luther with his heat vision (because it would save a lot of trouble in the long run) I don't want to see Prime executing fallen, beaten enemies.




Bob

It's not that one likes it, it's just a refreshing new take on the character, of which Animated Prime does as well. Of course, it's not my favorite, as G1 always will have a special place in one's heart.

Personally, I just... don't think of it as a negative with this version of Prime's characterization, but more of a "what if" I guess.



And no, I definitely don't like the idea of Superman vaporizing Lex, either.

 

[bcm77]

Great shots mate !!! I like the "scorpion tail" set up
You need to get a con badge on that bad boy, which reminds me I need to get to reprolabels as I am running low............

Nice work my friend.
"Longhaul is looking GREAT and hopefully pics of the last two tomorrow

Bob

Glad you like them!

I'm going to put a Decepticon logo on Scavenger when I can find mine as I put them somewhere "safe" and can't remember where

Although having said that I may just wait even if I find my labels as the panels on the middle of Scavenger's chest are shaped like a chunky Decepticon logo so I'm wondering if Reprolabels do a set for him ( they usually do stuff for 3rd party releases ) they'll make a special logo that'll fit in there.

 

[Silent Bob]

It's not that one likes it, it's just a refreshing new take on the character, of which Animated Prime does as well. Of course, it's not my favorite, as G1 always will have a special place in one's heart.

Personally, I just... don't think of it as a negative with this version of Prime's characterization, but more of a "what if" I guess.



And no, I definitely don't like the idea of Superman vaporizing Lex, either.

LOL no worries mate and it's good you like a new take on the character. "What if" is quite a good way of viewing it

Really nice to be able to have a discussion about the movie over the last few pages that didn't degenerate into name calling or hissy fits. A first for a TF message board perhaps

Glad you like them!

I'm going to put a Decepticon logo on Scavenger when I can find mine as I put them somewhere "safe" and can't remember where

Although having said that I may just wait even if I find my labels as the panels on the middle of Scavenger's chest are shaped like a chunky Decepticon logo so I'm wondering if Reprolabels do a set for him ( they usually do stuff for 3rd party releases ) they'll make a special logo that'll fit in there.

They are great mate. I'm gonna take a few for my collection page this arvo

LOL, I've put my Autobot badges somewhere too safe too mate

I'm deffo gonna keep an eye out reprolabel sets for these guys too. I really wish I could afford two sets of these

Bob

 

[lerath666]

alternate universe... what if...

i JUST figured out WHO Bayverse prime actually is.

Clearly, like clifjumper, he swapped universes, and replaced the real prime.