Anyone felt 1/6 has hit a bottle neck in terms of realism?

[Brett Banner]

Necks and head/neck attachment & aesthetics are a big peeve of mine with Hot Toys.

However, if we're talking about maintaining articulation at the base of the head itself (as opposed to at the base of the neck), I don't know how seamless becomes a thing - not to mention the ever-present concerns about deterioration over time which, if it happened, would ultimately be a worse thing than a permanent visible joint.

I just wish Hot Toys put more effort into necks and making ball-joint heads as un-intrusive to the aesthetics as possible. I'd love to have a Henry Cavill Superman but I don't because I cannot stomach the hideous, stick-up-the-arse, giraffe-necked appearance of those figures.

They have a certain set of doll-bodies that they reuse over and over instead of tailoring each body to each character. Muscle-men characters all seem to get these undetailed skin-barrels for necks and with the head just haphazardly plopped on top of it - sculpts can be badly cut off to make them fit these standardized bull-necks in ways that are aesthetically bad, detrimental to a likeness and just generally unnatural looking - what I earlier described as the stick-up-the-arse appearance - when a person tenses up and pulls their chin into their neck. The aforementioned Cavill Supermen (BvS & Justice League anyway) and DX10 T-800 to me have always looked like they are doing this. I believe it happens when they hollow out the headsculpt too much behind the chin to fit it to the neck, making the face look too retracted in a profile view. And all this to say nothing of actual visible gaps between heads and necks, especially when turning a head or tilting it.

NECA does a better job on this - and I know that's because they don't use standardized doll-bodies - each body has to get special attention. The ball-joint heads on NECA's Dutch from Predator and Sarah Connor from Dark Fate come to mind as extremely well done aesthetically while being perfectly functional without exposing gaps. I feel like a high-end company specializing in realism should be able to give us the same and they all too often don't.

I still don’t quite understand why no company will do a female body without the neck so that the actual head sculpt can have the seamless neck attached. I personally can’t stand having the separate head and neck, a lot of collectors argue that they prefer it so they can have more articulation, but why are you collecting 1/6 anyway if your primary concern is articulation over realism?

I am excited to see that EXO-6 will at least have different, accurate heights for their female figures which Hot Toys always seems to fail miserably at.

 

[generalszabo]

I still don’t quite understand why no company will do a female body without the neck so that the actual head sculpt can have the seamless neck attached. I personally can’t stand having the separate head and neck, a lot of collectors argue that they prefer it so they can have more articulation, but why are you collecting 1/6 anyway if your primary concern is articulation over realism?

I am excited to see that EXO-6 will at least have different, accurate heights for their female figures which Hot Toys always seems to fail miserably at.

The whole point of figures is that they are articulated, otherwise you have a statue

 

[Zurdo95D]

I still don’t quite understand why no company will do a female body without the neck so that the actual head sculpt can have the seamless neck attached. I personally can’t stand having the separate head and neck, a lot of collectors argue that they prefer it so they can have more articulation, but why are you collecting 1/6 anyway if your primary concern is articulation over realism?

I am excited to see that EXO-6 will at least have different, accurate heights for their female figures which Hot Toys always seems to fail miserably at.

Unless there are others I'm unaware of, I think the only 1/6 female figure that has a sculpted neck is the Endgame Captain Marvel figure.

 

[Brett Banner]

The whole point of figures is that they are articulated, otherwise you have a statue

Nah, obviously I’m not saying 1/6 figures should be immobile static statues or that you should just buy statues if you don’t care about articulation. I meant that if you want to buy figures with full, life-like ranges of articulation in mind then you should just be searching that out in smaller scale figures. 1/6 scale to me is all about the realism of the costuming and sculpting in a miniature form more than anything else. I don’t think I’m alone—in the 1/6 community it seems like figures always get praised *way* more often for how awesome they look while the range of articulation if usually an afterthought. Every time I see a YouTube reviewer complain that a figure didn’t come with a split cut in the boot I just think, yeah I’ve never once seen another real collector complain about the boot articulation on a figure .

I just find it a little annoying that a company like Hot Toys will go to great lengths to replicate the realism of a film costume at the sake of articulation, but when it comes to their female figures they will still go and sacrifice the realism of the sculpting because of the separated head sculpts.

 

[potato]

Unless there are others I'm unaware of, I think the only 1/6 female figure that has a sculpted neck is the Endgame Captain Marvel figure.

Sculpted neck usually look odd unless you pose them leveled.

 

[Zurdo95D]

Sculpted neck usually look odd unless you pose them leveled.

Yeah heads with sculpted necks have a little less pose ability than heads without.

 

[asgardianboy]

Nah, obviously I’m not saying 1/6 figures should be immobile static statues or that you should just buy statues if you don’t care about articulation. I meant that if you want to buy figures with full, life-like ranges of articulation in mind then you should just be searching that out in smaller scale figures. 1/6 scale to me is all about the realism of the costuming and sculpting in a miniature form more than anything else. I don’t think I’m alone—in the 1/6 community it seems like figures always get praised *way* more often for how awesome they look while the range of articulation if usually an afterthought. Every time I see a YouTube reviewer complain that a figure didn’t come with a split cut in the boot I just think, yeah I’ve never once seen another real collector complain about the boot articulation on a figure .

I just find it a little annoying that a company like Hot Toys will go to great lengths to replicate the realism of a film costume at the sake of articulation, but when it comes to their female figures they will still go and sacrifice the realism of the sculpting because of the separated head sculpts.

I want my 12" action figures to be as human-like as possible & an important part of this is down to posing.
Posing a doubly jointed neck-head is paramount to impart life to these pieces of plastic (other articulations
are important too). I don't think I am alone on this & seriously doubt your statement "figures always get praised *way* more often for how awesome they look while the range of articulation if usually an afterthought" to be true. If you are all about "realism of the costuming and sculpting in a miniature form more than anything else", then move on to multimedia statues.



Concerning 1/6 evolution having stalled, here my 2c:

1) Technology & workforce evolve & more quality will for sure be offered in the future w/o any price increase. Companies know they are reaching the reasonable price limit (on both financial & ethical grounds) for common buyers the world over.

2) What is still left to be desired in 1/6:

2.1) HT's likenesses are off in too many instances. HSs look a lot like the subject matter but they are not EXACTLY it (all
those Lukes, the Leias, Asmus' stuff, etc). From my ignorant standpoint, it is all down to sculpting, and if better sculpts
can be comissioned for prepro protos for bigger-ticket items (1/4 & bigger), they can also be for 1/6.

2.2) On the other hand, paintwork on HSs has gotten so realistic these days (and improving, e.g. Mando Boba Dlx, which
also nails portrait sculpt btw) that I don't think it poses a bottleneck to realism as of now. If only, maybe weathering
simulating physical processes on objects -rotting, wear, etc- might use some extra care, as it can get VERY REALISTIC
as shown in scale modeling these days.

2.3) Intense facial expressions. HSs more often than not tend to have blank expressions. More extreme, albeit re-usable
expressions can & should be achieved.

2.4) Better tailoring. If custom artists do it, the industry must catch up by investing in new machinery & techniques. This
includes weathering (some splattering does not cut it!).

2.5) PERS PERSvasive for more facial expressiveness & display options. Now that eyes are manufactured separately, then glued onto place, why not going the last mile & letting scale economy lower costs?

2.6) Realistic rooted hair for dah people (even short-haired characters, also facial hair including eyebrows).

2.7) Seamless, ARTICULATED wrists & fingers w/ endoskeleton for realistic posing. Spares
must be sold or easily obtainable (for silicone will unavoidably crack at some point).

2.8) Real leather. If that No-name brand did it w/ that unlicensed Hellboy figure at a lower-than-average price,
everyone can, but they won't because short-lifespan figs is better for them.

2.9) More attention to biological diversity. Height & build must be tailored to each character, which will not
only result in more accuracy, but also avoid shameful outings like the first, fat Jedi Luke. Torso, thighs & ass must
also have the right bulk. This, plus 2.4, should result in figures with their clothing actually fitting them the same way
as in their real counterparts, minimal futzing required (I have seen that degree of realism in some customs, from
time to time, on these very boards!).

2.10) Unless manufacturers act proactively & invest on new tech to drive prices down, the market will soon face
unaffordable prices and dwindling sales. The 1/6 bubble (which does exist) might explode following a massive
loss of interest on the medium due to ever skyrocketing prices.

2.11) Environmental sustainability must be an incresingly important part of this equation. I am starting to find it difficult
to purchase so much plastic, parts of which are unavoidably decaying into microplastics that will end up causing my
future cancer & those of my children. Recyclability, toxicity


...and that would be about it for my wishlist / roadmap for the next 1/6 decade. Maybe I am forgetting advancements like 1/6 chainmail, but well....

Thoughts anyone?

 

[potato]

I want my 12" action figures to be as human-like as possible & an important part of this is down to posing.
Posing a doubly jointed neck-head is paramount to impart life to these pieces of plastic (other articulations
are important too). I don't think I am alone on this & seriously doubt your statement "figures always get praised *way* more often for how awesome they look while the range of articulation if usually an afterthought" to be true. If you are all about "realism of the costuming and sculpting in a miniature form more than anything else", then move on to multimedia statues.



Concerning 1/6 evolution having stalled, here my 2c:

1) Technology & workforce evolve & more quality will for sure be offered in the future w/o any price increase. Companies know they are reaching the reasonable price limit (on both financial & ethical grounds) for common buyers the world over.

2) What is still left to be desired in 1/6:

2.1) HT's likenesses are off in too many instances. HSs look a lot like the subject matter but they are not EXACTLY it (all
those Lukes, the Leias, Asmus' stuff, etc). From my ignorant standpoint, it is all down to sculpting, and if better sculpts
can be comissioned for prepro protos for bigger-ticket items (1/4 & bigger), they can also be for 1/6.

2.2) On the other hand, paintwork on HSs has gotten so realistic these days (and improving, e.g. Mando Boba Dlx, which
also nails portrait sculpt btw) that I don't think it poses a bottleneck to realism as of now. If only, maybe weathering
simulating physical processes on objects -rotting, wear, etc- might use some extra care, as it can get VERY REALISTIC
as shown in scale modeling these days.

2.3) Intense facial expressions. HSs more often than not tend to have blank expressions. More extreme, albeit re-usable
expressions can & should be achieved.

2.4) Better tailoring. If custom artists do it, the industry must catch up by investing in new machinery & techniques. This
includes weathering (some splattering does not cut it!).

2.5) PERS PERSvasive for more facial expressiveness & display options. Now that eyes are manufactured separately, then glued onto place, why not going the last mile & letting scale economy lower costs?

2.6) Realistic rooted hair for dah people (even short-haired characters, also facial hair including eyebrows).

2.7) Seamless, ARTICULATED wrists & fingers w/ endoskeleton for realistic posing. Spares
must be sold or easily obtainable (for silicone will unavoidably crack at some point).

2.8) Real leather. If that No-name brand did it w/ that unlicensed Hellboy figure at a lower-than-average price,
everyone can, but they won't because short-lifespan figs is better for them.

2.9) More attention to biological diversity. Height & build must be tailored to each character, which will not
only result in more accuracy, but also avoid shameful outings like the first, fat Jedi Luke. Torso, thighs & ass must
also have the right bulk. This, plus 2.4, should result in figures with their clothing actually fitting them the same way
as in their real counterparts, minimal futzing required (I have seen that degree of realism in some customs, from
time to time, on these very boards!).

2.10) Unless manufacturers act proactively & invest on new tech to drive prices down, the market will soon face
unaffordable prices and dwindling sales. The 1/6 bubble (which does exist) might explode following a massive
loss of interest on the medium due to ever skyrocketing prices.

2.11) Environmental sustainability must be an incresingly important part of this equation. I am starting to find it difficult
to purchase so much plastic, parts of which are unavoidably decaying into microplastics that will end up causing my
future cancer & those of my children. Recyclability, toxicity


...and that would be about it for my wishlist / roadmap for the next 1/6 decade. Maybe I am forgetting advancements like 1/6 chainmail, but well....

Thoughts anyone?

Biodegradable was the reason why medicom pleather failed. You want that they can go back to them.

 

[asgardianboy]

Biodegradable was the reason why medicom pleather failed. You want that they can go back to them.

That happened 10+ years ago.

 

[potato]

yes and the term biodegradable still stands today.

That happened 10+ years ago.

 

[asgardianboy]

yes and the term biodegradable still stands today.

Tech's changed.

 

[potato]

Tech's changedto be called biodegradable requires the m

Tech's changed.

to be called biodegradable requires the material to break down within certain time period. i dont think 20 years qualifies as biodegradable. i dont know if medicom still uses biodegradable pleather on their newer pleathers. anything biodegradable wont last long irregardless of tech, in fact tech would make them better during their design life and decompose quickly once they expire to save the environment.

 

[KitbashOfficer]

I want my 12" action figures to be as human-like as possible & an important part of this is down to posing.
Posing a doubly jointed neck-head is paramount to impart life to these pieces of plastic (other articulations
are important too). I don't think I am alone on this & seriously doubt your statement "figures always get praised *way* more often for how awesome they look while the range of articulation if usually an afterthought" to be true. If you are all about "realism of the costuming and sculpting in a miniature form more than anything else", then move on to multimedia statues.



Concerning 1/6 evolution having stalled, here my 2c:

1) Technology & workforce evolve & more quality will for sure be offered in the future w/o any price increase. Companies know they are reaching the reasonable price limit (on both financial & ethical grounds) for common buyers the world over. I'm not sure they care! InArt seems to be putting out supreme quality and the masses seem to be willing to pay the money. The price is getting too high for my tastes.

2) What is still left to be desired in 1/6:

2.1) HT's likenesses are off in too many instances. HSs look a lot like the subject matter but they are not EXACTLY it (all
those Lukes, the Leias, Asmus' stuff, etc). From my ignorant standpoint, it is all down to sculpting, and if better sculpts
can be comissioned for prepro protos for bigger-ticket items (1/4 & bigger), they can also be for 1/6. Seem to be a lot of misses lately. Guess it depends on who's doing the sculpting. Not sure why at this point they don't just digitally 3D print a head for best accuracy. I'd be curious to know if Hot Toys has lost some of their top sculptors in the past couple years.

2.2) On the other hand, paintwork on HSs has gotten so realistic these days (and improving, e.g. Mando Boba Dlx, which
also nails portrait sculpt btw) that I don't think it poses a bottleneck to realism as of now. If only, maybe weathering
simulating physical processes on objects -rotting, wear, etc- might use some extra care, as it can get VERY REALISTIC
as shown in scale modeling these days.

2.3) Intense facial expressions. HSs more often than not tend to have blank expressions. More extreme, albeit re-usable
expressions can & should be achieved. Facial expression should probably come down to the character portrayed. Some get multiple iterations over the years so if warranted, sculpts with different expressions whose heads are compatible with previous versions would be good.

2.4) Better tailoring. If custom artists do it, the industry must catch up by investing in new machinery & techniques. This
includes weathering (some splattering does not cut it!). I think the tailoring is quite good but maybe I'm not so picky.

2.5) PERS PERSvasive for more facial expressiveness & display options. Now that eyes are manufactured separately, then glued onto place, why not going the last mile & letting scale economy lower costs? Going to take way more than that to lower costs!

2.6) Realistic rooted hair for dah people (even short-haired characters, also facial hair including eyebrows). This is a matter of preference. InArt providing both is a pretty good move.

2.7) Seamless, ARTICULATED wrists & fingers w/ endoskeleton for realistic posing. Spares
must be sold or easily obtainable (for silicone will unavoidably crack at some point). I think those interior wires are troublesome which is why it isn't more standard. I don't worry about this peronally, they give you so many hands.

2.8) Real leather. If that No-name brand did it w/ that unlicensed Hellboy figure at a lower-than-average price,
everyone can, but they won't because short-lifespan figs is better for them. Big time agreement here! Pleather being used at all is just a terrible, cheap design choice.

2.9) More attention to biological diversity. Height & build must be tailored to each character, which will not
only result in more accuracy, but also avoid shameful outings like the first, fat Jedi Luke. Torso, thighs & ass must
also have the right bulk. This, plus 2.4, should result in figures with their clothing actually fitting them the same way
as in their real counterparts, minimal futzing required (I have seen that degree of realism in some customs, from
time to time, on these very boards!). Hot Toys seems to pay attention to figure scale and sizing from what I've experienced. Sideshow has ignored it entirely.

2.10) Unless manufacturers act proactively & invest on new tech to drive prices down, the market will soon face
unaffordable prices and dwindling sales. The 1/6 bubble (which does exist) might explode following a massive
loss of interest on the medium due to ever skyrocketing prices. Despite what I said above about people willing to invest in InArt, I also see the industry faltering due to these prices. All-in-all, the industry hit its peak back in 2016-2018 and I don't know if we'll see it surge again. It's done almost enough for me as I'm looking to mostly exit it in 2025.

2.11) Environmental sustainability must be an incresingly important part of this equation. I am starting to find it difficult
to purchase so much plastic, parts of which are unavoidably decaying into microplastics that will end up causing my
future cancer & those of my children. Recyclability, toxicity It's long overdue that industries haven't researched and developed more into the world of silicates combined with plant resins to simulate plastic but be more environmentally friendly. That being said - who is throwing away their collectibles? I certainly am not!


...and that would be about it for my wishlist / roadmap for the next 1/6 decade. Maybe I am forgetting advancements like 1/6 chainmail, but well....

Thoughts anyone?

I replied to your lines with my thoughts in BOLD.

 

[asgardianboy]

in fact tech would make them better during their design life and decompose quickly once they expire to save the environment.

That's my point. On top, I suspect pleather is actually a form of non-biodegradable plastic, just decomposing into
microplastics. I meant we need to switch to REALLY BIODEGRADABLE materials.

 

[Asta]

Just as this thread was bumped I saw this posted on another site, showing 1/6 progress over the last 1800 years or so:

The doll dates to the 2nd century AD, and measures 23 cm in height.

Crepereia Tryphaena's tomb and doll were found in 1889 in Rome under the site of what was to become the Palace of Justice. Crepereia Tryphaena's age is believed to have been between 13 and 18 years of age when she passed, presumably due to disease as is depicted upon the outside of her sarcophagus. Crepereia Tryphaena was buried in her wedding dress.

Among Crepereia Tryphaena's belongings was her doll, an indication that she had passed away before her marriage. The doll is made of carved ivory that was stained in a dark brown, and has bendable joints. The doll itself bore a ring upon its finger and that ring opened a tiny chest in which tiny combs and a tiny mirror were also present.

 

[asgardianboy]

Just as this thread was bumped I saw this posted on another site, showing 1/6 progress over the last 1800 years or so:

View attachment 589223


The doll dates to the 2nd century AD, and measures 23 cm in height.

I am speechless......

 

[KitbashOfficer]

The doll dates to the 2nd century AD, and measures 23 cm in height.

I wonder how many papyrus-scroll forum pages complained about it...

 

[Asta]

I wonder how many papyrus-scroll forum pages complained about it...

 

[gooboo]

I wish more manufacturers put magnets in the feet/shoes of their figures to make them stand up better. Doesn't seem like it would be terribly expensive, but I then again I don't know much about mass production.

 

[potato]

I wish more manufacturers put magnets in the feet/shoes of their figures to make them stand up better. Doesn't seem like it would be terribly expensive, but I then again I don't know much about mass production.

Usually the weakest link is the ankle so they would still fall with magnetic feet.