Article: Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

I'm confused. What's the deal with Fluffy? I've been following this thread lately but I must have missed something.

Beto was offended because Dooley didn't want him stealing something that legally was bought by and belonged to Dooley. (Ie the rights to produce Fluffy).

Edit: Beto most certainly DID get offended. Who are you trying to fool?

 

[Commtech]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Beto was offended because Dooley didn't want him stealing something that legally was bought by and belonged to Dooley. (Ie the rights to produce Fluffy).

Stealing. Just like Rainman, Iminime, Rocco, Souza, Imaresqd1, Trevor (yes, even him when he sculpts unlicensed stuff), etc. All these guys who at the same time provide projects that Kato, Elvis, Skiman, Small Studios, Robbie, Moe, etc. help complete with their services for clothing, painting, etc.

Man, these boards are full of criminals!!!! Bunch of crooks!!

ps. Beto never said he was "offended".

 

[MasterSafara]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Who's Beto?

 

[Invictus Sol]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Stealing. Just like Rainman, Iminime, Rocco, Souza, Imaresqd1, Trevor (yes, even him when he sculpts unlicensed stuff), etc. All these guys who at the same time provide projects that Kato, Elvis, Skiman, Small Studios, Robbie, Moe, etc. help complete with their services for clothing, painting, etc.

Man, these boards are full of criminals!!!! Bunch of crooks!!

ps. Beto never said he was "offended".

Yeah, gotta say, WTF? This forum is chock-full of unlicensed likenesses but someone somehow gets upset about this B-grade (being generous) character? *shrugs*

Beto was offended because Dooley didn't want him stealing something that legally was bought by and belonged to Dooley. (Ie the rights to produce Fluffy).

Man, Pix, what's the issue? Beto's not a thief or trying to scam anyone of their license. It's better that Beto just dropped it, but he could've gone ahead in the end because these are two different markets. Dooley's is on the lower end and Beto would've taken the few high-end collectors that want a $700.00+ Fluffy. He would've 'stolen' zero sales from Dooley because anyone that wants a Beto isn't going to settle for whatever Dooley produces (assuming he produces anything).

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Beto was offended because Dooley didn't want him stealing something that legally was bought by and belonged to Dooley. (Ie the rights to produce Fluffy).

Edit: Beto most certainly DID get offended. Who are you trying to fool?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Man, Pix, what's the issue? Beto's not a thief or trying to scam anyone of their license. It's better that Beto just dropped it, but he could've gone ahead in the end because these are two different markets. Dooley's is on the lower end and Beto would've taken the few high-end collectors that want a $700.00+ Fluffy. He would've 'stolen' zero sales from Dooley because anyone that wants a Beto isn't going to settle for whatever Dooley produces (assuming he produces anything).

Well that is a debate for a complete different thread, but suffice it to say it's a matter of taste, apparently, what we choose to call "high-end". Beto is good, but he is not $700 good. There isn't a $700 figure in existence that is $700 worth of good (let alone some figures that peiople are paying $2000+ for ) . But you choose to pay it so applying words like "high end custom" makes you feel better about what is essentially (imo) a waste of money.

Just my opinion. Don't hurt me.

 

[mikericm]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Let's hope we get some good news this week about Nate. He looks like he could be the best $100 ever made.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Stealing. Just like Rainman, Iminime, Rocco, Souza, Imaresqd1, Trevor (yes, even him when he sculpts unlicensed stuff), etc. All these guys who at the same time provide projects that Kato, Elvis, Skiman, Small Studios, Robbie, Moe, etc. help complete with their services for clothing, painting, etc.

Man, these boards are full of criminals!!!! Bunch of crooks!!

Putting those aside, Hot Toys put out scores of heads with likenesses of actors that were not obtained through legal channels as Truetypes, and painted up in their military line. Even Sideshow isn't immune, as we saw with some of the Joes (such as Flint--Randy Couture, and Dusty--Eric Bana, Bana apparently had a goatee added so that Sideshow could better sidestep any legal claims of unlicensed use of his likeness). Of course, I'm sure Pixletwin would never support unlicensed products such as custom, unproduced Hobbit heads. Because that would mean he was supporting that kind of "stealing" while at the same time condemning it in another context.

I'm afraid very little in this collectible world has completely clean hands when it comes to this issue. At some point it's not a matter of "if" some type of IP infringement occurs, but "how much."

As for the overpriced figure argument, I'm sure lots of NECA fans say the same about anyone foolish enough to spend over $20-30 on any kind of figure. It's all relative.

 

[galactiboy]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Well my point was he went through all the trouble to make sure to put an end to the the fluffy project and I was alright with it even though I don't think it was necessary Beto usually makes about 15 figures with the exception of a few but ok the guy bought the rights so he was able to do what he wanted and I respected that but to find out now he might even go the custom route to make Nate so what are the chances of him ever making it to fluffy I just don't understand why the people who would of bought Betos fluffy now don't get the chance to own one at all I really like Dooley and was a big supporter of SHS the last update or lack of an updates just has me upset with the whole thing please come through Dooley or at least let us know what's going on

As a license holder I think it's his responsibility to go after anyone who infringes on it. I don't think Beto and Lu were actively making any more of Fluffy at that point, but I guess he still needed to make the point.

As for going the custom route on this project... I assume he means making the figures one-by-one in the States like a custom project, but still paying all of the appropriate fees, etc. and likely loosing a ton of money.

Anyone that's every assembled a custom figure (even the most basic of bashes) knows that once you factor in cost of a body, clothing and accessories you can almost never keep it under $100.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Anyone that's every assembled a custom figure (even the most basic of bashes) knows that once you factor in cost of a body, clothing and accessories you can almost never keep it under $100.

Assuming this worst case scenario pans out (because damn would that be a lot of work for Dooley), I think one saving grace could be his working with bulk materials, and having all the casting done in-house for all the sculpts and accessories, then he could buy cheaper bodies. Then, you've gotta figure the per figure cost would drop well below what it would cost an individual collector to bash figures together using existing pieces you picked up from Toy Anxiety or EBay.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

...Of course, I'm sure Pixletwin would never support unlicensed products such as custom, unproduced Hobbit heads. Because that would mean he was supporting that kind of "stealing" while at the same time condemning it in another context..

Right. Because those customs and even Dexter were cutting into the business profits of all those companies who were making them at the time . (Which is none)Not to mention those were DO IT YOURSELF customs. I wasn't paying some dude who was cranking out unlicenced complete and finished pieces. They were basically glorified bashes. I'd have thought the differences between the two as quite plain for most people. I guess it isn't plain for some.

Besides which, none of those customs cut deep into the pockets of a fellow boardie who is doing the brave thing and starting his own LEGITIMATE company.

 

[galactiboy]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Assuming this worst case scenario pans out (because damn would that be a lot of work for Dooley), I think one saving grace could be his working with bulk materials, and having all the casting done in-house for all the sculpts and accessories, then he could buy cheaper bodies. Then, you've gotta figure the per figure cost would drop well below what it would cost an individual collector to bash figures together using existing pieces you picked up from Toy Anxiety or EBay.

Sure, but even casting can be expensive and in the case of Nate you have a 2 part head, unique hand sculpts the serving platter, ashtray, severed head (w/hair and lights). Then the suit; which I guess would have to be after market... no way they'd be making up to 1,000 suits by hand.

All in all that adds up to quite a bit, still maybe less than $100... but not much and at this point nothing's even been painted or weathered.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Being a great custom artist in your own right, you would know better than I GB. In any case, I agree that that would be rough for him to have to deal with.

Right. Because those customs and even Dexter were cutting into the business profits of all those companies who were making them at the time . Some times you can be quite dense, yes and judgmental.

Besides which, none of those customs cut deep into the pockets of a fellow boardie who was doing the brave thing and starting his own LEGITIMATE company. Kara sometimes I think you are just being obtuse for the sake of obtuseness. Now I think you are just a jerk.

At this point, you're clearly rationalizing your own behavior, while passing judgment on everyone else. As you know, another company was attempting to do licensed Dexter figures, and could very well have had profits affected by the scores of unlicensed heads out there being used for bashes. Much more so than the run of 10 or 15 Fluffy's in existence, I would think. So I'm being dense? You seem to have a fairly convoluted logic to determine what is acceptable and what isn't. How on earth are Triad's Dexter and Asmus's Lord of the Rings different than SHS's Creepshow?

Like I said, I can understand why any company would pursue protection of its IP rights in either case, even if I personally approve of and enjoy buying/making/owning custom pieces. But there is no logical difference in any of those examples. If you accuse Beto of being a thief, then it seems you should be saying the same of Trevor and Zkulptor (or whoever it was that did the Hobbit heads).

These issues are all shades of gray. If you support any boardies who produce unlicensed works (and I do, and am not shy to admit that I'm a fan of Rainman, Beto, Trevor, Skiman, etc.), but turn around and spew vitriol toward others who do this in a different way, then it comes off as contradictory. I have heard, understand, and respect Nam's opinion in this, because he seems very absolute in his opposition to any unlicensed custom works. But no, I'm not getting where you are coming from here, apart from possibly trying to rile people up using extreme language calling customs "wastes of money" and accusing certain custom artists you don't seem to like as "thieves."

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Kara... talking with you is getting really tiresome. You are mad because I called you out yesterday for some very unmod like behavior... your language was inflammatory. I called you out on it. I understand you have a bone to pick with because a) apparently I was such an amazing mod you were hurt that I quit lol) and b) because I aired a grievance about mod culture which apparently stung you a wee bit.

In any case, I am trying really REALLY hard not to take things to higher personal level, which is the direction you seem to want to go, so let's just agree to disagree and move on. You are a mod. Now act like one.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

I'm sorry. If we can't have a logical and civil conversation, then perhaps you could put a quote of mine in your signature to make you feel better. Because I was the one trying to make this personal.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

I'm sorry. If we can't have a logical and civil conversation, then perhaps you could put a quote of mine in your signature to make you feel better. Because I was the one trying to make this personal.

Awwww... That was just taking the piss out of the dumb insults you threw at me. It was in fun. I iz sowwy you got'd offended. Being a mod sucked. It made me take myself too seriously and it made me take other people too seriously (gee, sound familiar?). You see, not being mod means I can actually enjoy the board in a somewhat childish manner on occasion. I love it. I hated being mod. Sorry if that offends you.

Per the quote in bold, yes that is right. Glad we can agree on at least one thing.

 

[mikericm]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Maybe this argument should be moved to a private message since it has nothing to do with creepshow figures.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Maybe this argument should be moved to a private message since it has nothing to do with creepshow figures.

No. Don't waste my PM space. It should have ended yesterday really, but for this non-personal attack from a mod:

of course, I'm sure Pixletwin would never support unlicensed products such as custom, unproduced Hobbit heads. Because that would mean he was supporting that kind of "stealing" while at the same time condemning it in another context.

Having poked all the holes in his argument and poked a bit of fun too, I'm done. Kara can have the last word if it wants too.

 

[mikericm]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

No. Don't waste my PM space. It should have ended yesterday really, but for this non-personal attack from a mod:

o.

Well, you're half the argument. You have all the power to end it if you choose to.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Re: CREEPSHOW starts today!!!

Well that is a debate for a complete different thread, but suffice it to say it's a matter of taste, apparently, what we choose to call "high-end". Beto is good, but he is not $700 good. There isn't a $700 figure in existence that is $700 worth of good (let alone some figures that peiople are paying $2000+ for ) . But you choose to pay it so applying words like "high end custom" makes you feel better about what is essentially (imo) a waste of money.

Just my opinion. Don't hurt me.

As for the overpriced figure argument, I'm sure lots of NECA fans say the same about anyone foolish enough to spend over $20-30 on any kind of figure. It's all relative.

Yeah, instead of "low-end" or "high-end" I should've emphasized the difference more between mass-produced in China (which works pretty dang well for Hot Toys but I think this figure will be much trickier because of the fur) vs one or two artists. Anyway, my main point is that they're servicing two different markets, so Dooley's cease and desist seems kind of silly (especially if he's unable to produce anything himself) and Beto's not a thief. You should be raising hell in all the Iminime threads if you think that's the case. ***k Fluffy! What about poor Clint?