Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[Sachiel]

 

[a-dev]

Ah, with so many people around here claiming inside knowledge it's hard to know who's just messing about.

 

[snoop101]

Ah, with so many people around here claiming inside knowledge it's hard to know who's just messing about.

About 99% of them are full of s***.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

...This, profoundly disgusts me. I know it's just a movie, but showing so little respect for a character that's been a worldwide icon for more than 75 years is just disgusting.

Thanks for you explanation! Although, I was talking about from a story perspective? The reporter stuff, the fight with Doomsday, the rivalry with Lex, the Batman fight, the confrontation with Bruce, court scenes, and how they develop his relationship with Lois. Being that you are such a fan of the character, how do you think those plot elements should play out to be closer to the Superman you love, or is what they're showing completely un-salvageable to be Superman for you. That's what I mean.

Anyone can answer that really. He's been around for more than 75 years, so he must be a great character, but I'm just curious why fans are so passionate about him. It's just that for me, Batman, Captain America, and Spider-man supplanted everything I liked about Superman. Peter and MJ has the best superhero/wife relationship in comics, and Batman and Captain America represented nobility more than any superhero. I think everyone knows about Batman (although modern comics have blown a lot of the stuff I grew up with out of the water. Thank you Clown Prince for the Scott Snyder recommendation), but with Steve Rogers—he would take time working in the docks to make money to donate to charities and would even let poor families live with him. Also, if he ever lost his super soldier serum and became a 120 pound weakling again, he'd never give up no matter how much he was beaten down. He'd have to face moral dilemmas and chose to give up his mantle and became the U.S. Agent so he could continue doing what he was doing. Whereas in every Superman comic that I read, he'd loose his powers and he'd either hide like a coward or they would magically come back to him in the nick of time. If he faced a moral dillema, the writer would never let him face it because the writers wanted him to stay neutral. Or if he faced terrible tragedy, he'd go off in seclusion. Also, unlike a lot superheroes, he'd barely use any of his skills when fighting, and instead of using his powers intelligently, he'd cause massive damage that most likely killed a lot of people. Then everyone would worship him!

I know everyone says read All Star Superman to get Superman, and while I really liked it, it's just a cliff notes guide to superheroes in general, and I've seen basically most superheroes do all things he does in that book way better, especially since they're far more vulnerable and didn't get perfect parents like he did.

 

[ironwez20]

Damn looks like I missed some drama

 

[jamesn50mm]

Well, MOS was far from perfect but i liked it. Let's say it was a different, realistic take on the character. For me, BvS feels like yet another treason theat DC and Warner do on the character. They obviously don't know what to do with him.
In the comics, they made him a shadow of himself, so much so they're trying to retcon him in DC rebirth.

I was happy with MOS but not satisfied because, clearly, he is Supes just at the end. And even so, there's so much left unsolved if they want to tackle him in a realistic way. What about the lame disguise in a realistic environment? Or the suit underneath the clothes? All this should have been answered in MOS.

But hey, I was ready to wait two odd years to get the answer in MOS2.

But instead? New treason! They don't even give the character the chance to settle and live by itself and they announce Superman Versus Batman.

But of course, the humiliation not being enough, the name soon becomes Batman v Superman.

But of course that's still not enough. In an interview, even Cavill admits that this isn't MOS 2

But of course that's not enough. When they announce the schedule of the DC movies for the upcoming years, guess what, theirs not even a MOS 2 in it.

But of course that's not enough. They modify the movie to put more Batman in it, and probably less Supes. In the meantime, I remember reading that Batman will make a cameo in all the upcoming DC movies.

But of course that's not enough. The death blow comes with that ****** trailer. Almost no Supes in it and what's left clearly shows him as a weaker character.

This, profoundly disgusts me. I know it's just a movie, but showing so little respect for a character that's been a worldwide icon for more than 75 years is just disgusting.

Ha, all the reasons you list here are what has me interested in this film, I can't lie, I hope there's way more batman than superman in this.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

 

[WWEJedi]

I wish Cavills hair style was reversed for Kent/Superman.




Great pic:
View attachment 246356

What game is that picture from?

 

[Sachiel]

What game is that picture from?

 

[crows]

play station 1 graphics i see

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Some of you Freaks need to learn to play nice. If you want to play internet tough guy, do it somewhere else.

My patience has run out. Now play nice or next time I hand out two week vacations.

You've been warned.

Thread cleaned.

 

[**16k**]

Thanks for you explanation! Although, I was talking about from a story perspective? The reporter stuff, the fight with Doomsday, the rivalry with Lex, the Batman fight, the confrontation with Bruce, court scenes, and how they develop his relationship with Lois. Being that you are such a fan of the character, how do you think those plot elements should play out to be closer to the Superman you love, or is what they're showing completely un-salvageable to be Superman for you. That's what I mean.

Anyone can answer that really. He's been around for more than 75 years, so he must be a great character, but I'm just curious why fans are so passionate about him. It's just that for me, Batman, Captain America, and Spider-man supplanted everything I liked about Superman. Peter and MJ has the best superhero/wife relationship in comics, and Batman and Captain America represented nobility more than any superhero. I think everyone knows about Batman (although modern comics have blown a lot of the stuff I grew up with out of the water. Thank you Clown Prince for the Scott Snyder recommendation), but with Steve Rogers—he would take time working in the docks to make money to donate to charities and would even let poor families live with him. Also, if he ever lost his super soldier serum and became a 120 pound weakling again, he'd never give up no matter how much he was beaten down. He'd have to face moral dilemmas and chose to give up his mantle and became the U.S. Agent so he could continue doing what he was doing. Whereas in every Superman comic that I read, he'd loose his powers and he'd either hide like a coward or they would magically come back to him in the nick of time. If he faced a moral dillema, the writer would never let him face it because the writers wanted him to stay neutral. Or if he faced terrible tragedy, he'd go off in seclusion. Also, unlike a lot superheroes, he'd barely use any of his skills when fighting, and instead of using his powers intelligently, he'd cause massive damage that most likely killed a lot of people. Then everyone would worship him!

I know everyone says read All Star Superman to get Superman, and while I really liked it, it's just a cliff notes guide to superheroes in general, and I've seen basically most superheroes do all things he does in that book way better, especially since they're far more vulnerable and didn't get perfect parents like he did.

I know All Star Superman is considered as a masterpiece. I really don't. It's not bad, but it's really made for the fans who can catch all the hidden nuggets here and there. For the casual reader, the story isn't that great. The truth is, Superman never had his Frank Miller. To me, Batman at its greatest was Year One, TDKR and the Killing Joke. I tend to laugh at Hush which I think is rather dull, and the Long Halloween and such are good, but not exceptional.

So, the big question, what do I like in Supes that make me prefer him to Batman?

Well, I'm a child of the 70s..and I live in France. At that time, we didn't have that many channels and the heroes of the day were Spider-Man from Hanna Barbera, the Ferrigno Hulk, the 6 million dollar man and a few others. What was Batman at the time? Just a ridiculous tv series with a funny guy dealing POWs and WAMs in cheesy settings. Not much of a hero there.

TV led to comics and more heroes. That's how I discovered the pre crisis Supes. And of course, there was this awesome comic that pit Supes against Spider-Man. A wet dream come true. I guess this comic book sealed the deal for me. And of course, Reeve!

Growing up, and teen angst, Batman replaced Supes in my heart. But that's just the point. batman is teen angst. Anger. Just not what's the best in us. Not what we should be, but what we are. Superman is so much more. I know it didn't translate week in MOS, but, yes, Hope is what he is! Not revenge.

There haven't really been great comics about Superman.most of those that stand out are Long Halloween quality, that's to say subpar in comparison to Frank Miller's TDKR. But somehow, one of them stands out to really show what Supes mean to a die hard fan. A world without Superman, that takes place between the Death and Return of Superman. This comic doesn't try to be artsy or anything, but I think it really highlights why Superman is so... Necessary.

I'm a teacher. We deal with difficult children, many of them in foster care or victims of child abuse. Some are broken beyond repair, but I like to believe that reading Superman has made me a better adult, and In my own, humble way I try to help and show them that life isn't about taking revenge, but about the silver lining that you can bring to it.

 

[YoNoSe]

Kind of off topic but last night I found this doc on Showtime about the Burton Superman. Interesting, crazy stuff.

 

[jye4ever]

I know All Star Superman is considered as a masterpiece. I really don't. It's not bad, but it's really made for the fans who can catch all the hidden nuggets here and there. For the casual reader, the story isn't that great. The truth is, Superman never had his Frank Miller. To me, Batman at its greatest was Year One, TDKR and the Killing Joke. I tend to laugh at Hush which I think is rather dull, and the Long Halloween and such are good, but not exceptional.

So, the big question, what do I like in Supes that make me prefer him to Batman?

Well, I'm a child of the 70s..and I live in France. At that time, we didn't have that many channels and the heroes of the day were Spider-Man from Hanna Barbera, the Ferrigno Hulk, the 6 million dollar man and a few others. What was Batman at the time? Just a ridiculous tv series with a funny guy dealing POWs and WAMs in cheesy settings. Not much of a hero there.

TV led to comics and more heroes. That's how I discovered the pre crisis Supes. And of course, there was this awesome comic that pit Supes against Spider-Man. A wet dream come true. I guess this comic book sealed the deal for me. And of course, Reeve!

Growing up, and teen angst, Batman replaced Supes in my heart. But that's just the point. batman is teen angst. Anger. Just not what's the best in us. Not what we should be, but what we are. Superman is so much more. I know it didn't translate week in MOS, but, yes, Hope is what he is! Not revenge.

There haven't really been great comics about Superman.most of those that stand out are Long Halloween quality, that's to say subpar in comparison to Frank Miller's TDKR. But somehow, one of them stands out to really show what Supes mean to a die hard fan. A world without Superman, that takes place between the Death and Return of Superman. This comic doesn't try to be artsy or anything, but I think it really highlights why Superman is so... Necessary.

I'm a teacher. We deal with difficult children, many of them in foster care or victims of child abuse. Some are broken beyond repair, but I like to believe that reading Superman has made me a better adult, and In my own, humble way I try to help and show them that life isn't about taking revenge, but about the silver lining that you can bring to it.

Very nice post, good stuff.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

I know All Star Superman is considered as a masterpiece. I really don't. It's not bad, but it's really made for the fans who can catch all the hidden nuggets here and there. For the casual reader, the story isn't that great. The truth is, Superman never had his Frank Miller. To me, Batman at its greatest was Year One, TDKR and the Killing Joke. I tend to laugh at Hush which I think is rather dull, and the Long Halloween and such are good, but not exceptional.

So, the big question, what do I like in Supes that make me prefer him to Batman?

Well, I'm a child of the 70s..and I live in France. At that time, we didn't have that many channels and the heroes of the day were Spider-Man from Hanna Barbera, the Ferrigno Hulk, the 6 million dollar man and a few others. What was Batman at the time? Just a ridiculous tv series with a funny guy dealing POWs and WAMs in cheesy settings. Not much of a hero there.

TV led to comics and more heroes. That's how I discovered the pre crisis Supes. And of course, there was this awesome comic that pit Supes against Spider-Man. A wet dream come true. I guess this comic book sealed the deal for me. And of course, Reeve!

Growing up, and teen angst, Batman replaced Supes in my heart. But that's just the point. batman is teen angst. Anger. Just not what's the best in us. Not what we should be, but what we are. Superman is so much more. I know it didn't translate week in MOS, but, yes, Hope is what he is! Not revenge.

There haven't really been great comics about Superman.most of those that stand out are Long Halloween quality, that's to say subpar in comparison to Frank Miller's TDKR. But somehow, one of them stands out to really show what Supes mean to a die hard fan. A world without Superman, that takes place between the Death and Return of Superman. This comic doesn't try to be artsy or anything, but I think it really highlights why Superman is so... Necessary.

I'm a teacher. We deal with difficult children, many of them in foster care or victims of child abuse. Some are broken beyond repair, but I like to believe that reading Superman has made me a better adult, and In my own, humble way I try to help and show them that life isn't about taking revenge, but about the silver lining that you can bring to it.

Thank you! That's an awesome explanation. You're right. I wasn't too fond of Hush either (I like Jim Lee's art a lot though), and there's a lot of horrible stuff with Batman as well. The problem clearly is that I've read too much stuff.

I'm glad Superman helped you a lot. Heck, a few years ago I discovered the Dragon Ball series, and the character of Goku helped me. People could say he's a lousy character, but I needed that optimism at that time, and all the dark stuff in Batman was way too overwhelming at that point. I just watched Goku hang out with his friends and family while he joyfully trained to make himself stronger, and as silly as it sounds, it helped deal with some nasty stuff. Heck, I still think about him when I work out every day because it helps me take joy it it. I've had a life-long chronic illness where I need a six hour treatment to keep me going (and, actually, the only way I'm able to see this movie is to skip it for a day, so I hope it's worth it.) Recently, some medicine that I needed stopped working, and I'm in a lot of pain, so that's why Batman is really appealing at this moment. I guess that's why the whole superpowers isn't appealing to me right now, because I have to work really hard to keep myself together. Plus I'm a lot younger than you, so angst does appeal to me at this point since my brain isn't fully matured.

I really appreciate your post, man! I'll now happily say that Superman rocks! I really hope you enjoy this movie, and if not, hopefully, you get a Superman film to your liking in the future. I wish you the best for your teaching career and the children you work with!

 

[kryptonianmutie]

I know All Star Superman is considered as a masterpiece. I really don't. It's not bad, but it's really made for the fans who can catch all the hidden nuggets here and there. For the casual reader, the story isn't that great. The truth is, Superman never had his Frank Miller. To me, Batman at its greatest was Year One, TDKR and the Killing Joke. I tend to laugh at Hush which I think is rather dull, and the Long Halloween and such are good, but not exceptional.

So, the big question, what do I like in Supes that make me prefer him to Batman?

Well, I'm a child of the 70s..and I live in France. At that time, we didn't have that many channels and the heroes of the day were Spider-Man from Hanna Barbera, the Ferrigno Hulk, the 6 million dollar man and a few others. What was Batman at the time? Just a ridiculous tv series with a funny guy dealing POWs and WAMs in cheesy settings. Not much of a hero there.

TV led to comics and more heroes. That's how I discovered the pre crisis Supes. And of course, there was this awesome comic that pit Supes against Spider-Man. A wet dream come true. I guess this comic book sealed the deal for me. And of course, Reeve!

Growing up, and teen angst, Batman replaced Supes in my heart. But that's just the point. batman is teen angst. Anger. Just not what's the best in us. Not what we should be, but what we are. Superman is so much more. I know it didn't translate week in MOS, but, yes, Hope is what he is! Not revenge.

There haven't really been great comics about Superman.most of those that stand out are Long Halloween quality, that's to say subpar in comparison to Frank Miller's TDKR. But somehow, one of them stands out to really show what Supes mean to a die hard fan. A world without Superman, that takes place between the Death and Return of Superman. This comic doesn't try to be artsy or anything, but I think it really highlights why Superman is so... Necessary.

I'm a teacher. We deal with difficult children, many of them in foster care or victims of child abuse. Some are broken beyond repair, but I like to believe that reading Superman has made me a better adult, and In my own, humble way I try to help and show them that life isn't about taking revenge, but about the silver lining that you can bring to it.

Well said!

 

[**16k**]

I'm sorry to hear about your health trouble. Health is such a determining factor in our lives. Up until 3 years ago, I had a wonderful life. But when you get older, so do your parents. My father was a hard working man, literally carrying tons of cement on his back everyday. So with age, he has more and more difficulty walking and falls every so often. So far, I was relying on my mom to take care of him, but 3 years ago, she suffered a stroke that left her paralyzed on her left side. Needless to say that my life has changed completely since then. Free time and customizing hav become just a fond memory. I don't sculpt anymore and the little time I have for me, I spend it sleeping to recover lost sleep between caring for them and doing my job. All this to say that I completely relate to your state of mind. I'm often angry at life and the hand chance has dealt me.

my love for Supes doesn't diminish my love for Batman. I'm just disappointed at the unfair treatment Superman has had over the years. Since the 78 movie (which, let's be fair, is almost only redeemed by CR's performance), he's been spiraling downward. What was the Superman fan treated with during that time? A honorable series (Lois and Clark) where Clark is the hero, no his alter ego. Then Smallville which had high and low moments but only like 2 seconds of the costumed hero. A nostalgic movie that missed the mark because of too little action (Returns), a not so well received movie (MOS) because they tried too much to be dark, which contradicts the very essence of the character.

In the meantime, Batman fans have had 7 movies to satisfy their needs (okay, 2 of them are crap!), an awesome animated series, a TV series that IMHO deserves more credit than its presently given (Gotham).

All in all, what I was expecting is a straightening of the balance, yet more Batman movies, but yet more Superman films too. Sadly, this isn't the way things are going. But I can't blame the studios. They're going where the money is, it's a natural move.

To be fair, it's up to a point where I'd like them to drop Superman from the big screen and give him the opportunity to bloom again in a TV series like Flash or Arrow. The character's image has become so worn and forgotten by the public that he needs at least that to recover a semblance of popularity. A movie is too short.

Another thing they miscalculated with MOS: the title. everyone knows Superman. Not everybody knows he's also the man of steel. At least not abroad. I can guarantee you that a lot of people never saw the movie because they never made the connection between Superman and Man of Steel. That was poor thinking on their part.

 

[jye4ever]

Thank you! That's an awesome explanation. You're right. I wasn't too fond of Hush either (I like Jim Lee's art a lot though), and there's a lot of horrible stuff with Batman as well. The problem clearly is that I've read too much stuff.

I'm glad Superman helped you a lot. Heck, a few years ago I discovered the Dragon Ball series, and the character of Goku helped me. People could say he's a lousy character, but I needed that optimism at that time, and all the dark stuff in Batman was way too overwhelming at that point. I just watched Goku hang out with his friends and family while he joyfully trained to make himself stronger, and as silly as it sounds, it helped deal with some nasty stuff. Heck, I still think about him when I work out every day because it helps me take joy it it. I've had a life-long chronic illness where I need a six hour treatment to keep me going (and, actually, the only way I'm able to see this movie is to skip it for a day, so I hope it's worth it.) Recently, some medicine that I needed stopped working, and I'm in a lot of pain, so that's why Batman is really appealing at this moment. I guess that's why the whole superpowers isn't appealing to me right now, because I have to work really hard to keep myself together. Plus I'm a lot younger than you, so angst does appeal to me at this point since my brain isn't fully matured.

I really appreciate your post, man! I'll now happily say that Superman rocks! I really hope you enjoy this movie, and if not, hopefully, you get a Superman film to your liking in the future. I wish you the best for your teaching career and the children you work with!

Another excellent post, wish you the best with your health.

Love reading how these comic book characters affects everyone differently.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm sorry to hear about your health trouble. Health is such a determining factor in our lives. Up until 3 years ago, I had a wonderful life. But when you get older, so do your parents. My father was a hard working man, literally carrying tons of cement on his back everyday. So with age, he has more and more difficulty walking and falls every so often. So far, I was relying on my mom to take care of him, but 3 years ago, she suffered a stroke that left her paralyzed on her left side. Needless to say that my life has changed completely since then. Free time and customizing hav become just a fond memory. I don't sculpt anymore and the little time I have for me, I spend it sleeping to recover lost sleep between caring for them and doing my job. All this to say that I completely relate to your state of mind. I'm often angry at life and the hand chance has dealt me.

my love for Supes doesn't diminish my love for Batman. I'm just disappointed at the unfair treatment Superman has had over the years. Since the 78 movie (which, let's be fair, is almost only redeemed by CR's performance), he's been spiraling downward. What was the Superman fan treated with during that time? A honorable series (Lois and Clark) where Clark is the hero, no his alter ego. Then Smallville which had high and low moments but only like 2 seconds of the costumed hero. A nostalgic movie that missed the mark because of too little action (Returns), a not so well received movie (MOS) because they tried too much to be dark, which contradicts the very essence of the character.

In the meantime, Batman fans have had 7 movies to satisfy their needs (okay, 2 of them are crap!), an awesome animated series, a TV series that IMHO deserves more credit than its presently given (Gotham).

All in all, what I was expecting is a straightening of the balance, yet more Batman movies, but yet more Superman films too. Sadly, this isn't the way things are going. But I can't blame the studios. They're going where the money is, it's a natural move.

To be fair, it's up to a point where I'd like them to drop Superman from the big screen and give him the opportunity to bloom again in a TV series like Flash or Arrow. The character's image has become so worn and forgotten by the public that he needs at least that to recover a semblance of popularity. A movie is too short.

Another thing they miscalculated with MOS: the title. everyone knows Superman. Not everybody knows he's also the man of steel. At least not abroad. I can guarantee you that a lot of people never saw the movie because they never made the connection between Superman and Man of Steel. That was poor thinking on their part.

Sorry to hear about your parents.

Hopefully this movie has Superman become the hero who know him to be.

But Batman kicking *** looks cool though, doesn't it.

 

[Khev]

I know All Star Superman is considered as a masterpiece. I really don't. It's not bad, but it's really made for the fans who can catch all the hidden nuggets here and there. For the casual reader, the story isn't that great. The truth is, Superman never had his Frank Miller. To me, Batman at its greatest was Year One, TDKR and the Killing Joke. I tend to laugh at Hush which I think is rather dull, and the Long Halloween and such are good, but not exceptional.

So, the big question, what do I like in Supes that make me prefer him to Batman?

Well, I'm a child of the 70s..and I live in France. At that time, we didn't have that many channels and the heroes of the day were Spider-Man from Hanna Barbera, the Ferrigno Hulk, the 6 million dollar man and a few others. What was Batman at the time? Just a ridiculous tv series with a funny guy dealing POWs and WAMs in cheesy settings. Not much of a hero there.

TV led to comics and more heroes. That's how I discovered the pre crisis Supes. And of course, there was this awesome comic that pit Supes against Spider-Man. A wet dream come true. I guess this comic book sealed the deal for me. And of course, Reeve!

Growing up, and teen angst, Batman replaced Supes in my heart. But that's just the point. batman is teen angst. Anger. Just not what's the best in us. Not what we should be, but what we are. Superman is so much more. I know it didn't translate week in MOS, but, yes, Hope is what he is! Not revenge.

There haven't really been great comics about Superman.most of those that stand out are Long Halloween quality, that's to say subpar in comparison to Frank Miller's TDKR. But somehow, one of them stands out to really show what Supes mean to a die hard fan. A world without Superman, that takes place between the Death and Return of Superman. This comic doesn't try to be artsy or anything, but I think it really highlights why Superman is so... Necessary.

I'm a teacher. We deal with difficult children, many of them in foster care or victims of child abuse. Some are broken beyond repair, but I like to believe that reading Superman has made me a better adult, and In my own, humble way I try to help and show them that life isn't about taking revenge, but about the silver lining that you can bring to it.

Fantastic post. Thanks for sharing.

 

[batfan08]

The best way I can think to describe the two is that Superman is the hero for the world as it should be, while Batman is the hero for the world as it is.