Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[IrishJedi]

It's become astonishingly clear that this has become a simple debate between different sensibilities.

Some people like the tone and sensibilities of this movie. Others don't. There is no right or wrong there. You guys can snark at each other until your fingers fall off and nothing is going to change.

 

[EVILFACE]

I wonder if people whine this much when they go out to eat and their foot ain't 100% perfect.

My guess is they pipe down and deal with it.

 

[YoNoSe]

They probably eat it then go home and think about why it was disappointing for a long time.

Then they eat at the same place again.

 

[IrishJedi]

That's the thing. The movie isn't flawless (very, very few are) but many of the "flaws" people are arguing about ad nauseum are simply things they (and others) don't like. But some people DO like them, and are onboard with the film that was made. Again... sensibilities. No right or wrong, and most of these debates are circular and endless.

 

[jye4ever]

Roman empire if the chef messed up Caesar's dinner he would have the chef and his family killed.

Ahhh, the good old days.

 

[EVILFACE]

They probably eat it then go home and think about why it was disappointing for a long time.

Then they eat at the same place again.

Yup, they all have flaws. Doesn't mean it will happen next time. But if it does..

 

[Rorywan]

It's become astonishingly clear that this has become a simple debate between different sensibilities.

Some people like the tone and sensibilities of this movie. Others don't. There is no right or wrong there. You guys can snark at each other until your fingers fall off and nothing is going to change.

Hmm.. It's a bit more complicated than that I think. Whilst a huge part of this comes down to sensibilities like you mentioned, the love it or hate it tone and approach.

There is still a right and wrong issue here, from a filmmaking perspective.. The editing, narrative structure and storytelling is unquestionably off? Especially in the middle section of the movie, whether people have an issue or not with this or not is dependant of how much they enjoy the overall tone.
How forgiving they are of the filmmaking errors that are in there.

Even most people who like the movie can see these issues. On second viewing I felt like someone had messed around with the edit.
Studio intrusion maybe? I look forward to seeing the R rated version as I feel like it will be a lot more coherent as a film.

Apart from the horrendously bad advertising campaign though, I really do not get the level of negativity aimed at the movie. Marvel have released a lot worse, though admittedly not at this tent pole level. AOU is the closest comparison even though I hate the Marvel/DC fan/hate. This is a much more interesting movie than AOU IMO but shares many of its issues.

 

[a-dev]

That's the thing. The movie isn't flawless (very, very few are) but many of the "flaws" people are arguing about ad nauseum are simply things they (and others) don't like. But some people DO like them, and are onboard with the film that was made. Again... sensibilities. No right or wrong, and most of these debates are circular and endless.

Agreed. My problems with the movie date back to MOS and it's basically that this just isn't my Superman. I'd prefer a more old school approach. For this reason my ability to truly enjoy these films is hampered from the off.

But are they actually so terrible? I guess not, if you like Superman this way.

 

[Rorywan]

Need to separate *approach/tone* from *quality/sophistication* to answer these questions.

 

[IrishJedi]

Hmm.. It's a bit more complicated than that I think. Whilst a huge part of this comes down to sensibilities like you mentioned. The love it or hate it tone and approach.

There is still a right and wrong issue here. The editing, narrative structure and storytelling is unquestionably off? Especially in the middle section of the movie, whether people have an issue or not with this or not is dependant of how much they enjoy the overall tone.
How forgiving they are of the filmmaking errors that are in there.

Even most people who like the movie can see these issues. On second viewing I felt like someone had messed around with the edit.
Studio intrusion maybe? I look forward to seeing the R rated version as I feel like it will be a lot more coherent.

Apart from the horrendously bad advertising campaign though, I really do not get the level of negativity aimed at the movie. Marvel have released a lot worse, though admittedly not at this tent pole level. AOU is the closest comparison even though I hate the Marvel/DC fan/hate. This is a much more interesting movie than AOU IMO but shares many of its issues.

Oh, I get the complaints about pacing and editing, at least in this Theatrical Cut. And I tend to agree that it felt "off" at times. I've already shared a couple of edits I personally would have made.

I'm speaking mostly on "This is not Superman" or "I don't get Lex's motivations" or "The dream sequences were unnecessary", and that kind of thing. They're not objective flaws... they're simply things some people don't like about the movie. And that's fair, too. It is what it is.

 

[Rorywan]

Oh, I get the complaints about pacing and editing, at least in this Theatrical Cut. And I tend to agree that it felt "off" at times.

I'm speaking mostly on "This is not Superman" or "I don't get Lex's motivations" or "The dream sequences were unnecessary", and that kind of thing. They're not objective flaws... they're simply things some people don't like about the movie.

Well, I completely agree with that.

And personally, the crazier the better for me. I think if a movie decides to go down a certain path tonally it should really go for it. Like Watchmen did.

 

[attom44]

I went yesterday with a group of couples...10 of us all found the film entertaining and thought evoking... both good and bad. This is just a film and not a religion.. It's not solving world problems (maybe in the film..LOL), it's not saving lives or curing cancer... I commend Zach and his group, for bringing a solid entry into the DC universe.. I can't wait to see where this all goes.. I also enjoyed Affleck as Batman... I'm not a huge fan or a hater .. I think he did a great job...Irons as Alfred is great.. Addams had much more chemistry with Cavill this time around.. I've never had a issue with Cavill as Superman I think he's great. Wonder Woman was also great. I'm not a Marvel or DC fanboy exclusively.. I'm just a fanboy of what I like and what entertains me.. IMO this was a solid film my score: 7.5/8.

 

[IrishJedi]

Well, I completely agree with that.

And personally, the crazier the better for me. I think if a movie decides to go down a certain path tonally it should really go for it. Like Watchmen did.

WATCHMEN is a pretty apt comparison, actually. Like that one, I think many of us will actually like The Director's Cut of BvS a lot more, and think "Man, that is what should have been released in the first place". Because it will be a bit more coherent. But at the same time, it will be more of the same tone and approach, so the people who don't like that about this movie will almost surely dislike the Extended Cut even more.

 

[jye4ever]

So what you're saying, if you're saying anything at all, is that Superman won't be exactly like STM Christopher Reeve in the extended cut of BvS?

 

[karamazov80]

I'm speaking mostly on "This is not Superman" or "I don't get Lex's motivations" or "The dream sequences were unnecessary", and that kind of thing. They're not objective flaws... they're simply things some people don't like about the movie. And that's fair, too. It is what it is.

Even some of that is more than just an issue with the tone/approach, though. Lex isn't fleshed out very well, and that's a basic storytelling issue. He just seems like a rich crazy guy me. And, that is enough to explain it, but I feel that the creative folks here are trying to insinuate more, without giving us enough to really understand it. The scene where Luthor brings the Congresswoman into his house was probably the best chance to provide that exposition. But instead he talks in vague generalities, coming off again, a bit like a disorganized schizophrenic.

But in general, I agree with Rory that the core complaints come down to both the tone/approach, and basic film making/story telling issues. And those who accept the tone and Snyder's approach to these things are probably more forgiving of issues in the latter domain, which is understandable. I'm sure that I wear slightly rose-tinted glasses whenever I see a Coen Brothers movie, since those guys have done so much that I do love, and since I want them to succeed with new stuff they put out.

 

[EVILFACE]

So what you're saying, if you're saying anything at all, is that Superman won't be exactly like STM Christopher Reeve in the extended cut of BvS?

But its gonna be rated R. Gotta have Supes hand out the pecker pic to little Johnny.

 

[IrishJedi]

So what you're saying, if you're saying anything at all, is that Superman won't be exactly like STM Christopher Reeve in the extended cut of BvS?

Batman will slaughter 67 innocent people in the Extended Cut.

 

[jye4ever]

Even some of that is more than just an issue with the tone/approach, though. Lex isn't fleshed out very well, and that's a basic storytelling issue. He just seems like a rich crazy guy me. And, that is enough to explain it, but I feel that the creative folks here are trying to insinuate more, without giving us enough to really understand it. The scene where Luthor brings the Congresswoman into his house was probably the best chance to provide that exposition. But instead he talks in vague generalities, coming off again, a bit like a disorganized schizophrenic.

But in general, I agree with Rory that the core complaints come down to both the tone/approach, and basic film making/story telling issues. And those who accept the tone and Snyder's approach to these things are probably more forgiving of issues in the latter domain, which is understandable. I'm sure that I wear slightly rose-tinted glasses whenever I see a Coen Brothers movie, since those guys have done so much that I do love, and since I want them to succeed with new stuff they put out.

Good luck trying to figure me out, I hated MOS but loved BvS.

But its gonna be rated R. Gotta have Supes hand out the pecker pic to little Johnny.

I had to think about that for a second but then I remembered little Johnny's very cool present.

 

[jye4ever]

Batman will slaughter 67 innocent people in the Extended Cut.

If I was Superman that's what I would do.

I mean, I would consider it for a quick second to be like Reeve but then be like nahhhhh....time to squish some ants. Hey, just being honest here.

 

[IrishJedi]

There's a deleted scene where Superman grabs a puppy and throws it at the engine of a plane carrying Internet SJWs. The plane then crashes into a school for special needs children and creates a domino effect of destruction, culminating with everyone at a Homeless Shelter catching on fire. Batman laughs.



Cue Devin, "See! I told you!"