Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

He went right in and told Batman to stop

The scene ends with a warning, which has no payoff from Clark's point of view. Next time they see each other, Clark has no real issues with Batman anymore

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You might not have said it but you thought it so....

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

 

[karamazov80]

The other day I watched the incredibles, perfect superhero movie by all accounts right? Well I engaged in the classic critique MO MoS and BvS had to withstand, which is basically asking "why?", without the slightest effort on your behalf to try to connect points, until you hit something, I realized not even that movie survives that scrutiny, I've done it with other movies, none survive, it's really weird why people have so strange standards for these movies in comparison with others and make so little effort to try to understand what's not being said via dialogue, as in, the rest of the channels that form part of an audiovisual medium, what they usually just accept in other movies.

While not speaking to any specific parts of BVS, there are movies where those issues are more glaring than in others. In some movies, you have to look for the issues (like in Incredibles), in others, they stare you right in the face and you can't ignore them. BVS is somewhere in-between I would say, but there were certainly more issues jumping out than I typically see in a comic movie. My dad, who is not really a fan of these sort of movies, went to see it with me, and he brought up a lot of the same things that jumped out to me.

I was watching Young Justice earlier, and marveling at how it juggled such a complex story with so many different well-defined characters (this episode focused on Reyes Blue Beetle, Atom, Bumblebee, Tim Drake, Arsenal, **** Grayson, G. Gordon Godfrey, the Martian Green Beetle, the dark Beetle, Manta, Vandal Savage, Luthor, and Sportsmaster, to name a few), all being handled so well, and compared it to how BVS couldn't effectively handle a fairly straightforward story with only a handful of major characters.

 

[DiFabio]

That would have been so much better.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah. But instead, Snyderverse version. . .

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Yeah. But instead, Snyderverse version. . .

Lol. Reminds me of Flashpoint Paradox Aquaman. Man WB screwed up, they should've let Snyder do that story.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yeah. But instead, Snyderverse version. . .

Yeah, the Martha line didn't work for that guy

 

[Khev]

If you're done discussing the movie then take a hike Gully, you won't be missed.

If I need to just start deleting the rest of your posts because you can't stay on topic well...

Honestly I was just waiting for you to target someone other than me. Now play time is over.

 

[EVILFACE]

Yeah. But instead, Snyderverse version. . .

Musta said that Aquaman can only talk to fishes.

Now he can't talk.

 

[e30ernest]

Some interesting points about the dream sequences:



I don't know if it holds up though but if he is correct, then it would prove interesting in the long run. However, I still question why they'd show it at this point in the franchise since it leaves a lot of casual viewers (like me) a bit lost.

 

[GasparZizou]

While not speaking to any specific parts of BVS, there are movies where those issues are more glaring than in others. In some movies, you have to look for the issues (like in Incredibles), in others, they stare you right in the face and you can't ignore them. BVS is somewhere in-between I would say, but there were certainly more issues jumping out than I typically see in a comic movie. My dad, who is not really a fan of these sort of movies, went to see it with me, and he brought up a lot of the same things that jumped out to me.

The thing is, I keep seeing stuff that people perceive as plot holes or even things they just don't like, and they call them flaws because they're just sooo damn lazy to work with the movie a little.

Even the Winter Soldier and Incredibles have one or two plot holes, or say, "dramatic conveniences", bigger than the biggest plot hole in BvS, (which btw, I haven't seen mentioned here). I don't think that the real flaws of this movie pop to your face, I think people are looking for flaws in this movie by default, so hard, that whatever they perceive as a flaw, they pin down as a flaw, without giving much thought to it, if any thought at all, apparently.

Because the d u m b e s t questions regarding the plot of a movie I can remember ever seeing, I've seen for this movie, without a doubt. Questions that have made me put the palm of my hand on my face in disbelief, literally.... Like holy ****.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Some interesting points about the dream sequences:

I actually understood all that nonsense.

 

[GasparZizou]

I actually understood all that nonsense.

Speedforce it's a helluva drug.

 

[SNIKT1950]

The thing is, I keep seeing stuff that people perceive as plot holes or even things they just don't like, and they call them flaws because they're just sooo damn lazy to work with the movie a little.

Even the Winter Soldier and Incredibles have one or two plot holes, or say, "dramatic conveniences", bigger than the biggest plot hole in BvS, (which btw, I haven't seen mentioned here). I don't think that the real flaws of this movie pop to your face, I think people are looking for flaws in this movie by default, so hard, that whatever they perceive as a flaw, they pin down as a flaw, without giving much thought to it, if any thought at all, apparently.

Because the d u m b e s t questions regarding the plot of a movie I can remember ever seeing, I've seen for this movie, without a doubt. Questions that have made me put the palm of my hand on my face in disbelief, literally.... Like holy ****.

This.

My favorite: "What were the character motivations? I couldn't find any."

WTF does that even mean? Bruce blames Supes for the thousands who died because of his fight with Zod. He thinks killing Supes is the right thing to do. Supes thinks Batman's outta control with the branding. Lex hates the idea of a God existing and wants to bring him down. Wonder Woman wants to remain hidden because humans disappointed her back in WWI. The end.

I mean, the character motivations were blatantly obvious. Questions like that just denote a pre-existing hate for this film.

 

[greygoose]

This.

My favorite: "What were the character motivations? I couldn't find any."

WTF does that even mean? Bruce blames Supes for the thousands who died because of his fight with Zod. He thinks killing Supes is the right thing to do. Supes thinks Batman's outta control with the branding. Lex hates the idea of a God existing and wants to bring him down. Wonder Woman wants to remain hidden because humans disappointed her back in WWI. The end.

I mean, the character motivations were blatantly obvious. Questions like that just denote a pre-existing hate for this film.

Pre-existing hate being the key. Many of the negative reviews and views about BvS could/sound like they have been written months before it was even released.

 

[cmiller99]

My brief thoughts: overall the film is hovering around a 5/10 after one viewing.

Good: Affleck and Irons - I'm looking forward to the solo movie.

Ok:
Lois Lane didn't get on my nerves too badly, she didn't feel quite as shoehorned in as in Man of Steel.

Some of the action scenes. The ending was confusing though.

Wonder Woman, though she felt a bit extraneous to the story.

Some of the special effects shots were fake looking but mostly the film looked pretty good.

Mediocre:
Lex Luthor - I didn't like Eisenberg very much.

I got a real Star Wars prequel flashback when Luthor's big plan was revealed. It seems that he'd been doing the whole 'manipulating everyone perfectly years in advance where everything goes just right, with no hitches until the very end'. It was implausible that everything would turn out exactly like how Luthor wanted it considering that he somehow knew that Batman hated Superman and would want to kill him or something?

Some of the 'God on Earth' stuff felt pretentious when juxtaposed to scenes like where Batman drags a car around and flips it onto another car with grappling wire. I mean, really, come on.

Superman - I can't get behind a Superman who says things like "I'll bring you in alive, not broken into a million pieces" like it's some kind of mercy or some ****. That ain't Superman to me. He can go on and on about being a 'beacon of hope' and all that ****, but he still did stuff like helping to destroy half of Metropolis without a second thought for the safety of the people.

Bad:
The pacing. The first act of the film felt like a series of scenes with no real flow or narrative drive. The film felt listless.

Aquaman. Possibly the most awkward introduction that they could have given him.

Doomsday. Just felt pointless, really, like they just needed a monster to fight. I'm not sure exactly why Lex needed Doomsday if he was so sure that Batman would kill Superman for him. Besides, the action in that sequence was just as destructive as in Man of Steel, only on a conveniently uninhabited and abandoned island.

Those people living in the Indian Ocean. I mean, they seemed to be living really damn close to that World Machine. Shouldn't they all be dead?

How did Lois Lane know that they needed the spear again?

the checks with "YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE" was another idea that was stupid because Bruc didn't even know that was going on.... weren't those stupid checks being sent for 2 years with writing and no one ever noticed?

Yeah... boy was it lucky that someone handed him those checks to get him angry at exactly the right time to go and fight Superman so that Lex's plan could proceed!

A sloppy script that needed more rewrites.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

This.

My favorite: "What were the character motivations? I couldn't find any."

WTF does that even mean? Bruce blames Supes for the thousands who died because of his fight with Zod. He thinks killing Supes is the right thing to do. Supes thinks Batman's outta control with the branding. Lex hates the idea of a God existing and wants to bring him down. Wonder Woman wants to remain hidden because humans disappointed her back in WWI. The end.

I mean, the character motivations were blatantly obvious. Questions like that just denote a pre-existing hate for this film.

But Sup's motivation ended with a warning with no real payoff? And the big BVS fight was less about ideological or personal reasons, and more to do with one character, Batman not liking Superman, so it wasn't like they both really wanted to fight. Sups was just there because of his mother, which was a last minute plan by Lex, when he sees the Batsignal...from Metropolis. Ideally, if the main characters are going to have ideological differences, and they both did in the beginning of the film, then it makes more sense for it to have some king of payoff with a big showdown, but it was very one sided, because Sups didn't even want to be there, so there wasn't that much of a build up, imo.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I can't get behind a Superman who says things like "I'll bring you in alive, not broken into a million pieces" like it's some kind of mercy or some ****. That ain't Superman to me. He can go on and on about being a 'beacon of hope' and all that ****, but he still did stuff like helping to destroy half of Metropolis without a second thought for the safety of the people.

So you think its out of character for Supes to size ****tard Lex up with words after he frames him twice by killing a bunch of people?

Nonsense. Lex is lucky Supes is a moral man. Batman would have thrown him off the roof.

And Supes didn't "help to destroy half of Metropolis". He saved Metropolis from Zod who would have destroyed ALL of it had Supes not snapped his neck.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

So you think its out of character for Supes to size ****tard Lex up with words after he frames him twice by killing a bunch of people?

Well, he really only framed Sups once, because as soon as the Washington explosion happens, they said on the news it was the guy in the wheelchair, so that didn't really work...if his intention was to frame Sups, which it would have been more interesting if everyone thought Sups was responsible, and it's up to Lois or Batman to prove Superman had nothing to do with it...but whatever, it's easier to have the villain threatening to kill Lois and Martha again.