Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[cmiller99]

*I've read over your posts regarding this film. The majority of them I find overtly critical and antagonistic. While you're not saying "This movie sucks" you're still basically looking for other people's negative views on the film to champion your own.

Wow, thanks for calling me a sheep.

I daresay it's possible that I might agree with a few other opinions here and there. Similarity of my opinions to a select few does not mean that I lifted them wholesale, thank you very much.

By the way, I have listed elements of this film that I enjoyed - particularly Affleck and Irons' chemistry. The Batman stuff I really enjoyed on its own.

I say that because most of your major complaints with BvS were squashed by other posters yet I don't see any retraction on your part of how wrong you were about the film's "issues".

Your most repeated gripe being that Batman displayed "hypocrisy" by leading Doomsday back to a populated Gotham - when in reality he led the creature to a deserted area. So you gave the film all this **** about being poorly written because Batman's motivation to kill Superman is hypocrisy at its finest yet you were wrong. Your posts on it since haven't improved at all though.

Go back a few pages and see me reconsider this very point of mine that you cite being retracted after lengthy conversation with others, such as IrishJedi and Khev, who do in fact like this movie.

I have only seen this movie one time, so it is possible that I have missed certain details. I am not perfect nor have I ever stated that my views on this film are fully informed.

In fact, my earlier point was more that Batman's very well written motivation was later cast into dubious light and contradicted later.

That shows (what is obvious) that you didn't deem BvS "a dumb summer movie" after seeing it but rather before seeing it, just like 90% of the people who hate the movie which made up their minds about it two days before seeing it as the RT plummeted down to 29% opening night.

 

[SNIKT1950]

To be clear, as far as your opinion goes, I respect that, but when you said "people are allowed to like bad movies," it kind of seemed as though you were framing it as if that wasn't just an opinion, but perhaps I'm just being pedantic, so, what the hell. I guess I'll never understand why being different makes it bad. Even in the early days, people were criticizing the method of the DCEU, saying that "they should do it like Marvel," and "the Marvel Studios formula is a proven success." I don't get why everything has to be the same. Why does the Reeve Superman have to be the same characterization for every film, why can't Batman kill; why can't a guy like Snyder try to make an experimental superhero movie?

Ultimately, these characters haven't endured for as long as they have by remaining exactly the same. Batman has killed, Batman hasn't killed, he's hidden in the shadows, and he's run up the steps of the Gotham City Hall in broad daylight. Yeah, there are core characteristics, but I fail to see why people can't judge something as "what it is" as opposed to "what they want it to be." The same **** happened with TDKR, to an extent. With people complaining about the ending and how Batman doesn't deserve a happy ending, and so on and so forth. At the end of the day, it's just one interpretation of the character in a multiverse filled with thousands.

If BvS was beat-for-beat, the same style, tone, whathaveyou as Civil War, I feel like, ultimately, that would do a disservice to the genre as a whole, because, ultimately, it cuts the time in which people would eventually get bored with these films in half. Maybe BvS is the movie people deserve, just not the one they need right now. As far as the Malick stuff goes, all I'm asking for is a little consistency. They don't even have to like it, but don't praise one guy for his "experimental" editing choices as some genius who has transcended the medium of film, itself, and delivered a metaphysical experience on celluloid. You want to talk about ****** editing? Be my guest, but cut through the pretentious ******** and look at this stuff objectively.

The Tree of Life won the Palm D'or. The PALM D'OR. That's like the highest honor in film at Cannes, and it did a bunch of the same **** that people are complaining about with this movie. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of objectivity, and I guess it's difficult for me to view a lot of the criticism this movie gets, for these specific things, mind you, as anything less than snobbery.

The most depressing thing to come from the beating critics gave BvS is the confirmation of how powerful the press has become and how devoid of thought the masses are at this point.

If THE GODFATHER was released today to a 28% on RT, people would literally be bashing it on forums the day after.

Critics are at a point now where they can literally band together to sink a movie. The masses just eat whatever those ***** feed 'em.

 

[Victοr]

Am I doing this right?

 

[RIDDICK]

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

"Substantiation."

Last page, a poster literally argues that everyone who liked this movie is in denial because its unequivocally a bad movie.

Statements like that are far worse than saying "This movie sucks." Statements like that basically imply anyone who likes the movie is an *****.

Well, BVS is a critical failure, does that mean the film is bad? From a critical stand point, yes. However, I also said I like MOS and called it the best Superman film so far, and that film is also a critical failure and most people here hate it, so my point was that films are subjective, and that there are different reasons as to why people like certain films. I gave BVS a good score, but there are plenty of things I don't like either, so when I say some people are on denial, I'm talking about those calling this film a masterpiece and giving it a 10/10 or a 9/10. The very people who can't accept this film has plenty of flaws or that it's a polarizing film for good reasons, not just with critics, but among actual DC fans, which has nothing to do with Marvel or Disney conspiracies, loyalty to the Donner films or blind hate The only logical conclusion I can think of is that a person like that must be in some kind of denial or they want to go against the general consensus. If you're not one of those people, then you shouldn't be offended by my comment.

 

[Destro]

People wanted and continue to want to hate this movie. The reasoning for that? Its a long list to choose from.

-Internet Bandwagoning
-Misplaced hate for DC due to Disney/Marvel brainwash/conditioning
-Disdain for MOS & BvS tone due to desire for Disney/Marvel family friendly tone
-Absurd loyalty to the romanticized Donner Superman

Well, that settles that. Excellent break down of EVERYONE who didn't like this movie.

 

[Destro]

If THE GODFATHER was released today to a 28% on RT, people would literally be bashing it on forums the day after.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Well, that settles that. Excellent break down of EVERYONE who didn't like this movie.

Yeah...

 

[Victοr]

People wanted and continue to want to hate this movie. The reasoning for that? Its a long list to choose from.

-Internet Bandwagoning
-Misplaced hate for DC due to Disney/Marvel brainwash/conditioning
-Disdain for MOS & BvS tone due to desire for Disney/Marvel family friendly tone
-Absurd loyalty to the romanticized Donner Superman

I've got to say, they've really improved their techniques. I mean, back then, I could quickly tell what they were up to and change the channel. But now? Boy oh boy, am I a hopeless sheep. Just last week, I was burning my DC comics while wearing my Mickey Mouse Ears. Sadly, by the time I had regained my senses, it was far too late. The Mouse had broken me already. I belong to them now...

I've got a really crazy theory though. Are you ready? Here it goes: Maybe, juuuust maybe, folks didn't like the movie. Simple as that. Maybe it let them down, or maybe they found it repetitive, or boring, or preachy or a whole lot of things that I'd name before going all tinfoil territory. You liked it? Cool, here's a cookie. But not everyone here "hated" it, most were just dissapointed. Hell, the majority posted well thought out reviews to explain their problems, myself included, and their stance. But nah, I'm sure we're just haters out to hurt WB with our nerd-rage! That, or we're just delusional kiddies who long for pop-corn. There's no other option *********!

 

[Destro]

I didn't even love Donners' Superman movies. But I really appreciated the genuineness Superman conveyed and his absolute love for humanity as a whole, not just Lois. He was still a social outcast, but he did have friends and family who balanced out his loneliness with words of encouragement and love that didn't give him an almost entirely bleak outlook on the human race. If someone would let Cavill be that, I'd be all on board.

 

[Destro]

I've got to say, they've really improved their techniques. I mean, back then, I could quickly tell what they were up to and chance the channel. But now? Boy oh boy, am I a hopeless sheep. Just last week, I was burning my DC comics while wearing my Mickey Mouse Ears. Sadly, by the time I had regained my senses, it was far too late. The Mouse had broken me already. I belong to them now...

I've got a really crazy theory though. Are you ready? Here it goes: Maybe, juuuust maybe, folks didn't like the movie. Simple as that. Maybe it let them down, or maybe they found it repetitive, or boring, or preachy or a whole lot of things that I'd name before going all tinfoil territory. You liked it? Cool, here's a cookie. But not everyone here "hated" it, most were just dissapointed. Hell, the majority posted well thought out reviews to explain their problems, myself included, and their stance. But nah, I'm sure we're just haters out to hurt WB with our nerd-rage! That, or we're just delusional kiddies who long for pop-corn. There's no other option *********!

Well said. Unlike Transformers, G.I. Joe and whatever multitude of other 80's properties they convert into cinematic fluff. I have a deep personal interest in these characters and seeing them done justice.

 

[e30ernest]

People wanted and continue to want to hate this movie. The reasoning for that? Its a long list to choose from.

-Internet Bandwagoning
-Misplaced hate for DC due to Disney/Marvel brainwash/conditioning
-Disdain for MOS & BvS tone due to desire for Disney/Marvel family friendly tone
-Absurd loyalty to the romanticized Donner Superman

I see all of those reasons being bounced around all over the net but for me, it's none of the above. I did not hate it, I actually enjoyed it even when I did not find it "good" in terms of story.

My main gripe about this movie is its lack of focus. They tried to cram too many things into the film. It's a bit sad too because taken individually, many of the storylines they shoehorned into the movie would have been good in their own right. I really think there were so many things they should have left out of the film like:

• Wonder Woman - As awesome as she was (I really think she's awesome and I am looking forward to her stand alone film), this movie did not need her to be there. SHe did not move the story forward at all.
• Dream Sequences - People who know the comic storylines might get more from these dream sequences, but I do not think the movie needed all of them. Kevin Costner stacking rocks dream wasn't needed for example... If they cut those dreams out, you could have added more content pertinent to the current storyline, instead of foreshadowing events that may happen X number of films in the future.
• Justice League Cameos - So they are shown with their hero logos as folder icons from Lex' computers. Why? And what's up with Aquaman? Why was it shown at that part of the film? It probably would have been shown later on in the film (after the fight) so that it didn't detract from the fight.
• Doomsday - I think it would have been a lot better if this weren't included in the film at all. Doomsday should have been introduced after the Justice League were together. It would have allowed us to like this Superman a bit more so that when he died, we'd actually care. In the real world, I'd bet people will actually be celebrating the death of Superman rather than mourning him based on what happened so far in MoS and BvS.
• Lois Lane and Martha Kent - We did not need more damsels in distress.
• Martha Martha Martha MARTHA - A tired old weary Batman, who has little regard for human life is convinced that even a 1% chance that an alien could be the enemy is a certainty and that said alien should be eliminated suddenly trusts that alien because they have mothers of the same name, and later on calls himself his "friend". I don't buy that at all.

I really don't mind the dark undertones, the murderous Batman and Superman or the lack of humor. Those are liberties I think film makers should be able to make. What I think this film lacks is focus.

That said, I enjoyed it. I really did. I enjoyed it because this is the first time I'm seeing Batman and Superman in the same live action movie. I love the brutality of Batman's fighting style. I love the intensity of Superman's powers. I loved how much of a badass Wonder Woman was. In the end though, I do not think there was enough room in this film for all of them given the storyline.

 

[cmiller99]

There's no tinfoil hat conspiracy against DC movies - that's just a cheap excuse for poor reviews that this movie has received.

The simple truth is that when a Marvel movie has a bad story, or feels cheap, or is of a lower quality than the other movies (I'm thinking of fan least-favourites like Iron Man 2 and Thor 2) they still get fairly positive critical recognition because while they may be essentially worthless fluff, at least they're 'fun' to sit through for non die hard fans/the general public (i.e. the school of thought that most mainstream critics belong to). This is where the misconception of "Marvel brainwashing" comes from, but it's not brainwashing at all. It's just being able to enjoy a sloppy movie because it's still light hearted and offers some good beats here and there in a mostly fun way.

If a movie like BvS, with the tone and execution that this movie has, is perceived as bad by an audience of critics, then they will find less to admire in the film; i.e. they will give it unfairly overwhelming negative reviews - because if they can't, in their opinion, find any worth in the plot, acting or themes in the movie, then they won't have the fun lighthearted moments to cling to and enjoy like they do for a Marvel movie - they'll just find it miserable and depressing, and they'll hate it. And that's what has happened here.

That's how I see it at least. The tinfoil hat angle is laughable.

I don't think that BvS deserves a 28% score at all, that's ridiculously poor.

 

[jye4ever]

I'll never understand why people waste their time posting on a forum for a movie they hate. I've never nor will ever step into the Transformers, G.I. JOE, Insurgent, Twilight or Maze Runner forums because I consider those films crap & have absolutely no interest in discussing said crap. Not to mention, out of respect for the people who do love those films I won't troll those forums with "This movie sucks" posts every page.

Too much of that here.

No way, I do not want to hang out in a thread where everyone feels and thinks the same way I do, that would get boring real fast!

If you told me that this thread would only be me, you, khev, Irish, Gaspar and batfan, well then how much fun would that be (there are more that liked this movie, right ).

It is very important to get opposing views especially with movies where it can actually be fun and rewarding, maybe even educational!

Opposing views from Clown, a-dev, Destro, Rory, DiFabio, crows and any other members who have something to share are what makes us see the entire picture instead of just our own narrow views!

Opposing views allows us to exercise and shape our own opinions.

Never just settle for a one sided view, you're doing yourself more harm than good.

Imagine if Clown didn't come here with his thoughts, we wouldn't have got his awesome sitting lolcat, and that would be just wrong!

 

[Platty]

Did any of you notice in the actual film, the line from the trailer where Bruce says "I'm getting slow in my old age, Alfred" Was changed to "you're getting slow in your old age, Alfred"

Bet you never.

Also I hope some of the extended footage on the ultimate cut shows batman breaking into lex Corp for the kryptonite. There wasn't enough batman in this. Plenty Bruce, not enough batman. There were a load of bullets on the floor. Maybe if this is shown Batmans kill count will be even higher

Also I'm going to pre order the batman statue edition Blu Ray

that is all

 

[EVILFACE]

Yea noticed that too. Was a odd change, but a nice quip either way.

 

[koon]

Just saw Superman vs Batman. I'll watch it again, but all it was, was fan-fic of all his favorite moments from comics in one story. And wth, they showed the X-men & Ironman vs Cap trailers!?

(redeemed a little by showing Suicide Squad)

 

[bunnyfreakz]

I don't think movie is that bad. Sure it's have plotholes and flaws but so does another blockbuster movies. But hate is so unreal, it's like conspiracy

 

[karamazov80]

Well we know for a fact that Disney has paid off the critics to give this bad reviews. Wouldn't surprise me if they successfully infiltrated SSF, as well. A few careful bribes, a little blackmail here and there, and voila.

 

[IrishJedi]