Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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It's not that TDKR is a bad movie, it's that it is absolutely a few steps down in quality from TDK for many of us. And I also agree with DiFabio in that it has some rather maddening logic dumps with major characters, particularly Alfred and Bruce/Batman.
 
I think that was a natural progression of that character. He was always against Bruce Wayne being Batman. He finally had enough, so he walked away.

Bruce: You still haven't given up on me.

Alfred. NEVER. (Except when it's suddenly prudent to the story in our 3rd film. Then I will act like a sanctimonious tit, puss out and leave you even though that betrays what we've established of my character in the first 2 films).
 
It's all Frank Miller's fault. People keep cherry picking parts of Dark Knight Returns to put into these movies and they end up with convoluted plots and motivations. Damn him for making such an influential story!
 
Bruce: You still haven't given up on me.

Alfred. NEVER. (Except when it's suddenly prudent to the story in our 3rd film. Then I will act like a sanctimonious tit, puss out and leave you).

That was why Bruce didn't clue him into his faked death. That disloyal POS needed to suffer at his grave-site dammit. If, *if* Alfred survived the subsequent heart attack and/or suicide attempt then (and only then) would Bruce condescend to nod at him from another table in Italy months later.
 
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Bruce: You still haven't given up on me.

Alfred. NEVER. (Except when it's suddenly prudent to the story in our 3rd film. Then I will act like a sanctimonious tit, puss out and leave you).

Yes, quoting a line from the first film while ignoring the subsequent events and the effects that it can have on a person is a great argument. Bravo :clap :wink1:

Alfred- "know your limits...master Wayne" See...let's all quote lines that fit our arguments! :lol
 
Rises wasnt even the real movie they wanted to make

joker was supposed to come back correct? was bane even supposed to be there originally?

Heath's passing crashed all the plans they had... wasnt nolan basically Forced to do rises even though he had no wishes to come back after Heath passed?

i wish we could see the original plans with the joker. i wish that story was out there to see,
 
I always kind of disliked Bale's Bruce Wayne character. When I find out he would quit being Batman and become a recluse for 8 years during his prime because his ugly non-girlfriend got blown up and there was no more organized crime to fight with marked bills, yeah... the was the final straw. :lol
 
Yes, quoting a line from the first film while ignoring the subsequent events and the effects that it can have on a person is a great argument. Bravo :clap :wink1:



It's not just the first movie though. In TDK I clearly recall Alfred picking up the Batman cowl off the floor and handing it to Bruce, encouraging him to endure after Rachel dies. He was always at his side in the first two movies. There was never any indication that he'd pack up and leave.

Same applies to every Alfred. Goes all the way back to the '89 Alfred who wanted Bruce to hang up the cape and live a happy life but would still be there at his side when **** was going down. Look at Irons. He's fed up with Bruce in BvS and is always criticizing him, but he's still loyal and in the thick of it, even going as far as piloting the Batwing and helping Batman defuse a hostage situation.

Alfred is awful in TDKR. I don't see how that's even debatable. It's not Caine's fault, just like it's not Bale or Oldman's. Each one of those characters is downgraded and regresses thanks to the writing. This thing was being toted as "an epic conclusion to a saga" and we get some cafe in Italy BS. It was a disappointment. I've said this since the beginning, the best conclusion would have been Batman riding off into the night on the batpod as "the villain" in TDK.
 
Think it's safe to say tdkr wasn't very good. Had joker been in the movie it'd be a whole different movie but no it was just ho hum. Bane was so boring imo and catwoman didn't feel like catwoman at all she was just a burgeler, she had no fixation for cats nor was she even that fearless. She was afraid of bane.

Meh what happened to that intovoid guy? He praised these movies, we had this discussion with him billions of times.
 
Rises wasnt even the real movie they wanted to make

joker was supposed to come back correct? was bane even supposed to be there originally?

Heath's passing crashed all the plans they had... wasnt nolan basically Forced to do rises even though he had no wishes to come back after Heath passed?

i wish we could see the original plans with the joker. i wish that story was out there to see,

I always kind of disliked Bale's Bruce Wayne character. When I find out he would quit being Batman and become a recluse for 8 years during his prime because his ugly non-girlfriend got blown up and there was no more organized crime to fight with marked bills, yeah... the was the final straw. :lol
My impression from the first viewing was that Nolan was just fulfilling his contract with Rises. Maybe it was Ledger's death, maybe it was general boredom with the franchise, maybe it was something else, but it just didn't feel to me like he brought his A-game. Thing is, Nolan is so incredibly talented, that even a half-hearted effort from him is good. But I think he was struggling to put something together that worked for him with the 3rd film, and did what he could, given his lack of real passion, but it also resulted in some odd moments in the film and larger story. I'm sure that the 8 year layoff wasn't in his original plans when he put together Dark Knight, for example.
 
I always kind of disliked Bale's Bruce Wayne character. When I find out he would quit being Batman and become a recluse for 8 years during his prime because his ugly non-girlfriend got blown up, yeah... the was the final straw. :lol

Well, did he really quit for 8 years? They said that Batman's last confirmed sighting was 8 years ago, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Bruce stopped at the very end of TDK, just that it was the last time someone saw Batman...not Bruce in a mask like in TDKR. It's a stretch, but I never had a problem with Baleman quitting because that idea was always present in the previous films. Also, the "realistic" approach of Bruce having some physical injuries as well as guilt for what happened to Rachel and Harvey made sense to me.
 
I'm going to continue to hang my hat on:

1. The Force Awakens was great entertainment.
2. The best Star Wars film since ROTJ.
3. My personal favorite film since the great LOTR trilogy.

Oops, that second one should have said "best SW film since ESB." Anyway, back to Batman:

I always kind of disliked Bale's Bruce Wayne character. When I find out he would quit being Batman and become a recluse for 8 years during his prime because his ugly non-girlfriend got blown up and there was no more organized crime to fight with marked bills, yeah... the was the final straw. :lol

:lol You said something similar to this back in 2012 and I cracked up then and am cracking up now. I also remember you going off about how ridiculous it was to not even *mention* the Joker but "Rachel's ugly photo still gets a cameo" or whatever you said. :lol
 

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Khev, you're right with Alien 3 btw, that movie was so traumatic for me I keep it locked up.

*Shudders even thinking about it.

:lol
 
It's not just the first movie though. In TDK I clearly recall Alfred picking up the Batman cowl off the floor and handing it to Bruce, encouraging him to endure after Rachel dies. He was always at his side in the first two movies.

He tried...by telling him that Rachel's death was not his fault and not giving him Rachel's letter (which comes back to bite him in the ass in TDKR), but that doesn't mean Bruce got over what happened. He still had to stop the Joker.

There was never any indication that he'd pack up and leave.

Well, there are indications in the beginning of TDKR which clearly explained how Bruce didn't get over Rachel's death and that Alfred wanted better life for Bruce, which is consistent with the previous films. Alfred even mentioned how Bruce's original plan included having a life after Batman, which again is consistent with the previous film. Alfred didn't just leave...he told him the truth about the letter which ruined Bruce's little fantasy of a future with Rachel. Alfred is refusing to enable Bruce's self destructive behavior. There's a difference. And he gives Bruce an ultimatum...and Bruce being the cold bastard that he is, he let him go...just like he did to Lucious Fox in TDK. This is also very similar to when Alfred quit during the Knightquest story line from the 90s, so it's not without comic precedent either.


The whole Rachel thing is not very Batman...I'll give you that, but we're talking about a guy who had trouble getting over his parents death too.
 
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