Batten Down the Hatches!

[The Josh]

Because what we're doing to our planet is not good for it. Thats a fact. This isn't the movies and we're not going to Mars. If we don't find something thats cleaner for this planet I have no doubts something bad will happen. Will it in my lifetime? No probably not. Though, it could in my kids or grankids and I personally would like that not to happen.

Oh bullpoop. The oil, guns, smoking, etc have all done stuff through the government at one time or another.

The world will adapt to new technologies and the way we would do things just like we have through other advances in life. So in the end everyone will be fine and folks will get rich like always. Well, maybe not the oil and gas folks who have been raping us for years.

 

[devilof76]

How do you know it's bad???

The Doctor is a Time Lord. Pretty sure that outranks Pope.

Damn. I guess he's right.

 

[The Ween]

 

[The Josh]

How do you know it's bad???

Every report I've ever read says it is. (I've always tried to find unbiased ones too by the way) How do you know its not? Are you willing to roll the dice that it isn't? Do you work for the oil and gas? I'm curious as to why you feel making a change isn't the best thing besides the folks who work in the oil industry might have to find new work?

Also love how you avoided my part that what you support has done the same thing.

 

[devilof76]

No industry that is threatened by the government with regulation and the like has a choice in whether or not it can deal with the government. If government threatens to crush your industry if you refuse to obey, you are going to lobby.

The fossil fuel energy industry was created independently of the political powers in this country. The green energy industry has been created by those powers. It's a huge difference and one you ignore completely when you try to cast them as being on equal moral grounds. One earned their market through voluntary trade; the other has used restrictions on the latter, subsidies taken from the pockets of taxpayers, and a network of artifical incentives to establish themselves. In short, the green energy industry has come into existence via involuntary means. It exists by compulsion, period.

And yes, I am willing to roll the dice. There is no evidence that the burning of fossil fuels has caused the current climate change that has chicken little up in arms. ZERO. Not much of a gamble, actually.

What is a gamble is turning to energy sources that are proven to be far less efficient, and far more expensive, and trying to keep the world from starving to death when we can barely afford to keep using a proven energy source.

 

[The Josh]

They started using the government long before they where attacked.

The government didn't create green energies. Helped finance them sure thats true. It exists because some folks have the ability to see the path we're on isn't a good one. Again, virtually all unbiased studies say so.

Well, hopefully the rest of the world is smarter than you and isn't willing to keep going that way. Hopefully we evolve into new techs like we always have and these will not have to use fossil fuels which are running out and whats left are in areas that would tear up the living habitats of some of the planets animals that can't be moved.

There's no evidence? Seriously? Have you never seen anything on the news ever? It helps kill the ozone which doesn't help the planet.

They need to be worked and improved but they will be much better on all fronts as we get better with them. Same as using fossil fuels back many years ago.

Again, I love how you side stepped many of my questions again.


How do you know its not? (skipped)
Why its not best for anyone outside the fossil fuel industry? (skipped)
Do YOU work in that industry? (skipped)

What's your plan when we run out of oil? What about other toxins we dump into the waters that kill fish, other water creatures, land animals, oil spills, toxins in the air, etc? What other source of fuel would you like to see us use? Do you think we should just keep going as is? Etc?

 

[devilof76]

Skipped questions (on account of them either not being relevant or not being real questions)...

1) You can't prove a negative. How do I know it's not??? How do you know the sun isn't going to eject a massive flare tomorrow and flash fry every last one of us?

2) This one I did answer. Every single alternative energy source introduced in the last 50 years has been less efficient and more expensive than fossil fuels, except for nuclear power. Start arguing for that, and I might take the question seriously.

Liberty means allowing people to decide for themselves what they will buy and what they will not. The green industry would never have received the start up money it has without money stolen by the government from us (which includes the oil industry) being given to them. There is no market for it because people know that it cannot sustain the global population.

3) No, I don't work in the oil industry.

And now for the rest...

What makes you think we're going to run out of oil? Every peak oil prediction since they started making them has been wrong. Wells thought dry long ago have been found to produce again. It would appear that oil is not in fact a static resource. Regardless, why are the lives of the animals whose ecosystems are effected by oil exploration and drilling more important than ours? Are their lives our responsibility to maintain? Is this a relationship that is reciprocated? Is it truly symbiotic? Has oil use decimated the animal and plant population of the globe thus far? Are we doomed because animals face extinction?

If oil becomes an obsolete, then I trust in the abilities of humanity to find and employ a replacement resource. They won't need help from people who know nothing other than how to control people, and they definitely won't need guns and laws to force obedience.

 

[The Josh]

They're real question and relevant to the discussion as much as the ones you tossed at me.

Yeah, you can. Studies are done all the time that point out things don't happen, cant happen, etc that are all negative. Hell, we have tests that prove people are negative for say HIV, Cancer, etc. I don't know the Sun won't but that could happen.

Thats why we work on them until they become something. We don't live our lives just using ____ that HAS been proven bad for the earth. At the very least its bad for you and I to breathe in, to drink, etc. Lets find ways around that shall we?

How has the money been stolen? Just like money has been used to drill oil wells like the one that screwed up the SE part of the US. Road works both ways. I look at going green and making things better the same way I look at Smoking being shown the door at places I eat and drink. I shouldn't have to suffer because you want to be an idiot and smoke.

Surprising considering how much you seem to support staying the course there. Must work in a field that really needs fossil fuels to be successful.

I'm just going on everything I've ever read or seen. At the rate we use oil based on what studies have been shown I just don't doubt we'll run out. Because they should have as much right to live where they are at as anyone as far as I'm concerned. Should we just kill them off and move them to places they can't survive just so we can get some oil? Yes, I believe their lives are ours to make sure they are around for years to come. Why do you believe they're not? Its as reciprocated as can be I believe. Are we not the species on the planet with the ability to make smart decisions and ones that are for the better of those who can't be it a person or animal. I consider my pets a part of my family and would do anything for them. Guess we can't say the same about you. It hasn't yet but we have through expansion into areas as the world pop grows out of control. Not to mention oil spills have killed thousands of animals because of its spills wrecking areas for years and messing up the economy in say areas like the SE (shrimping). Are we a people that are willing to kill off animals because we HAVE to have oil? Is it that precious we're willing to sell our souls for it?

Oil is obselete as a main fuel source. Hopefully the world will find a way through these new techs so we don't have to depend upon oil so freaking much.

If oil is so easy to get and not that big of a deal. Why are we paying $3+ a gallon for gas? It was around 1.50 not 10 years ago and oil companies are making 30 BILLION dollars while the economies of the world sink to ____. Yeah, those guys are doing great and so are their supporters. Plus while they may not need guns they've done their dirty work in other ways.

 

[Jen]

I would be very sad if animals became extinct.

I think the root of the problem is simply overpopulation of humans.

 

[The Josh]

It would be sad. I love watching stuff like the Planet Earth doc (on blu especially) and I want these animals to be here for generations. I do believe that if we stay the current course they won't.

 

[Jen]

I loved Planet Earth. I've been a fan of shows like that and National Geographic since I was a kid. While other kids were watching cartoons - I was watching lions and elephants.

 

[devilof76]

We should just kill the humans. You know if we don't, all the animals will die...

Yeah, you can. Studies are done all the time that point out things don't happen, cant happen, etc that are all negative. Hell, we have tests that prove people are negative for say HIV, Cancer, etc. I don't know the Sun won't but that could happen.

That's because the existence of those entities has been proven to exist: global warming caused by carbon emissions has not. I cannot prove that there are no negative long term effects of burning oil; all I can do is evaluate claims that it does have a negative effect, and none of the claims I've seen yet have proven to be true (rendering them mere supposition).

Thats why we work on them until they become something. We don't live our lives just using ____ that HAS been proven bad for the earth. At the very least its bad for you and I to breathe in, to drink, etc. Lets find ways around that shall we?

So work on them. When they're worth a damn, I'm sure people will be ahppy to use them.

They aren't now, so people don't. Don't advocate holding a gun to their head so that they will.

How has the money been stolen?

Taxation is theft. Not everyone pays them (or consumes them) as happily as you do.

Just like money has been used to drill oil wells like the one that screwed up the SE part of the US. Road works both ways.

Indeed it does. That accident would never have ebcome the problem it did if they had been allowed to drill closer to land, where the break could be fixed before it dumped all of that crude into the Gulf.

However, what's the status of that region now? Uninhabitable for man or beast?

I look at going green and making things better the same way I look at Smoking being shown the door at places I eat and drink. I shouldn't have to suffer because you want to be an idiot and smoke.

I am too, and I'm seeing the same fascist stripes.

You don't own the bars and restaurants of the country, and you have no right to dictate what behavior they will permit inside their doors. You are a guest, and if they do not extend the amenity of a smoke-free environment to you, you are free to leave.

It would have been civil for you to extend the same coutesy to them, but apparently, being the customer gives you the right to force them to obey your preferences.

Good thing you don't hate Jews, huh? (Just kiddin'. )

Surprising considering how much you seem to support staying the course there. Must work in a field that really needs fossil fuels to be successful.

So do you work for a green energy concern?

I'm just going on everything I've ever read or seen. At the rate we use oil based on what studies have been shown I just don't doubt we'll run out.

Ok. The same studies in the past have been wrong. Why are these ones right? There is a great deal of evidence to the contrary that 1) oil is renewable, and 2) it is not a 'fossil' fuel, created by past organic decomposition.

Because they should have as much right to live where they are at as anyone as far as I'm concerned.

If you can construct a valid argument that animals have rights, I'd gladly hear it.

Should we just kill them off and move them to places they can't survive just so we can get some oil?

You say 'get some oil' like it's toys or desserts. What it actually means to 'get some oil' is to get the primary source of energy that will feed, clothe, house and heat this entire country, and countless more.

Do you have a problem with humans living?

Yes, I believe their lives are ours to make sure they are around for years to come.

That's your business if you so choose.

Why do you believe they're not?

Because their lives are their own to live.

Its as reciprocated as can be I believe. Are we not the species on the planet with the ability to make smart decisions and ones that are for the better of those who can't be it a person or animal.

My life is not their responsibility, and their is not mine.

I consider my pets a part of my family and would do anything for them. Guess we can't say the same about you.

Your pets are the entire animal population of the globe? No, we can't say the same for me. The two dogs and one cat who live in my house are on the bottom of the totem pole, and if it came down to me or them (or my mom or them, or my niece or them, or my sister or them) they would lose.

It hasn't yet but we have through expansion into areas as the world pop grows out of control.

You have something against more people being alive?

Not to mention oil spills have killed thousands of animals because of its spills wrecking areas for years and messing up the economy in say areas like the SE (shrimping).

The Gulf coast has already started shipping shrimp again. BP paid them $20 billion for their trouble, even though the accident was not their fault.

Are we a people that are willing to kill off animals because we HAVE to have oil?

If it's us or them, yes.

Is it that precious we're willing to sell our souls for it?

Are the animals so precious that you are willing to sell your life, and the lives of all of the other people dependent on oil for their sake?

Oil is obselete as a main fuel source.

Nope. It is still the best source there is, and is only a problem on account of the artificial limitations imposed on its production by people with an irrational (though not naive) bias against its use.

Hopefully the world will find a way through these new techs so we don't have to depend upon oil so freaking much.

Is it the dependence that bothers you? Or the oil?

If oil is so easy to get and not that big of a deal. Why are we paying $3+ a gallon for gas?

Taxes. Enviromental regulation. Prohibitions on drilling. Middle Eastern nationalization of our oil in the 1950's, and subsequent monopolization.

It was around 1.50 not 10 years ago and oil companies are making 30 BILLION dollars while the economies of the world sink to ____.

The harder it is to produce gas, the more expensive it will be. Oh noes. 30 billion in profits. Good thing too. They go under and it's back to chasing food, except now, you'll be competing over far less with a bunch of Midwestern rednecks.

Also, what percentage of the oil companies income is profit, I wonder...

Yeah, those guys are doing great and so are their supporters. Plus while they may not need guns they've done their dirty work in other ways.

Marxist drivel. Move to Cuba. Tell the citizens of Eden I said hi and I hope they're enjoying life in their utopia.

 

[The Josh]

I loved Planet Earth. I've been a fan of shows like that and National Geographic since I was a kid. While other kids were watching cartoons - I was watching lions and elephants.

Same here. Watched cartoons as well but I love shows like those that show us the beauty of what goes on in the world around us. Kind of amazing I think.

Dev- I'd take the time to reply to most of that drivel but I'd rather read a chapter or two of LOTR. I'll be placing you on ignore mostly for just being a ____. Not because I don't feel I can respond. You're just not worth it. Please do the same to me. Thanks.

 

[Mesa]

Damn this global warming. Highest record of snowfall in NY on record, a freeze/snow wave hitting 30+ states, and now I have to turn on the heat tonight as it's supposed to dip below 40 in Phoenix.

 

[user 1190]

It obvious something is going on just look around the world at all the crazy weather. I am sure we are a part of the reason but I wouldn't worry to much about the planet, when its tired of what we are doing it will flick us off the face in no time, then start over again. We can do all we want but it will only slightly delay the inevitable.

 

[devilof76]

Dev- I'd take the time to reply to most of that drivel but I'd rather read a chapter or two of LOTR. I'll be placing you on ignore mostly for just being a ____. Not because I don't feel I can respond. You're just not worth it. Please do the same to me. Thanks.

I don't put people on ignore. I don't care if I have to read your self-righteous nonsense about people who don't agree with you being animal killers and other kinds of beauty-hating scum.

Personally, your point of view is responsible for more death and destruction historically than mine ever will, but atleast I added a smilie when I intimated it. You just outright called me a lesser person for not believing oil is the doom of life on earth. No smilies, or nothin'.

 

[The Josh]

Ignore I love you.

 

[devilof76]

 

[jinxx]

Um, how do you guys(enviro proponenents) collect SS stuff and not realize what country they were made from?


Just curious.

 

[devilof76]

Don't ask. You'll just reveal yourself to be an amoral philistine who kills puppies by the truckload.

The IPCC Report on Anthropogenic Global Warming concluded that there was no evidence supporting the conclusion that human activity is the cause, but the UN ignored what their own scientists discovered. Reason is out the window on this one I'm afraid.