Batten Down the Hatches!

[Shatterer of Dreams]

well just remember that it'll cost more now that you have to cross an ocean.......

 

[The Josh]

This is true. Maybe I should stick with the little boat.

 

[Darth Waller]

So it turns out Texas is having state-wide rolling blackouts due to the idiot-run power plants in northern Texas.

At the heart of the problem, however, is simply that many Texas power plants broke down because they’re not designed to handle lengthy cold spells.

Allan Koenig, director of communications for Dallas-based Luminant, the state’s largest power plant operator, said wet weather followed by more than a day of very cold weather can lead to exposed pipes and other equipment at Texas power plants freezing. Unlike states like Illinois or New York where lengthy cold weather is expected, Texas power plants don’t have all of their equipment insulated or protected in the same way.

Indeed Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst told the Associated Press that water pipes at two plants, Luminant’s Oak Grove coal-fired plant in Robertson County and Austin Energy’s natural gas fired Sand Hill plant, forced the operators to shut down.

This problem isn’t specific to natural gas or coal fired plants, but natural gas plants may be subject to another cold weather peril: during extreme cold the small amounts of water that are in pipeline natural gas may separate and freeze in valves.

It appears most of the power plant outages were in the northern part of the state where the cold weather hit more than day before it arrived in the Houston area.

NRG Energy, the state’s second-largest power plant operator with most of its units near Houston, reported all of its major plants remained online, and at at one point this morning it was handling up to 15.5 percent of the state’s total load.

Koenig said Luminant, which has most of its plants in North Texas, had a larger number of plants offline due to the cold.

Uh, it gets cold in northern Texas every damn year. You would think they would know enough by now to be prepared.

 

[The Josh]

No, people here forget how to drive every time it snows.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

No, people here forget how to drive every time it snows.

that's here too

 

[plasmid303]

This really happened today in Illinois:

Damn you, snow. Damn you.

edit: video!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/niEIuwLCCiQ" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

^ That is awesome!!

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

pretty nuts

 

[The Josh]

that's here too

Drives me nuts. Of course then you have folks who should know its not safe to go out that still do.

 

[Mister Ski]

This really happened today in Illinois:

Damn you, snow. Damn you.

edit: video!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/niEIuwLCCiQ" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

This is 10 miles from my house. I travel this highway everyday to work. Glad I worked from home today.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Drives me nuts. Of course then you have folks who should know its not safe to go out that still do.

or the ones that buy out a grocery store for a 2 day storm b/c they'll never see green grass again

 

[The Josh]

Yeah, buying for a couple days is one thing but thats a bit over the top.

 

[The Ween]

This really happened today in Illinois:

Damn you, snow. Damn you.

edit: video!

<IFRAME class=youtube-player title="YouTube video player" height=390 src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/niEIuwLCCiQ" frameBorder=0 width=640 type="text/html" allowFullScreen></IFRAME>

The VW Bug is a Geek Squad car!!!

 

[The Ween]

Drives me nuts. Of course then you have folks who should know its not safe to go out that still do.

Level 3 here yesterday and that means only emergencies vehicles on the roads. Well, there sure was a lot of traffic out past me. I can understand the Semis, but why in the world would others be out in that mess!

I'll still waiting to see if we have school tomorrow. The roads are a mess!

Edit: Just got a call that we'll be on a two-hour delay tomorrow. I guess they think something is going to melt in those two hours at 5 degrees or whatever it will be at 6 am.

I'll be sitting in a near empty classroom if we do go in.

 

[The Josh]

Yeah, I-70 across Missouri was totally closed down as where other roadways in the state. My Dad even made sure we had more than we might need folks working at the fire department incase it got that bad. Schools around here have been closed for two days and that includes the universities.

 

[jinxx]

That was a snowstorm!? I'm ever offended!

 

[devilof76]

I slept through it.

Still holding out on this one? I don't think it has "everything to do" with humans, but "nothing to do with us" is as archaic a belief as the earth is flat.

There is no evidence that any significant, permanent, or dangerous effect resultant from human carbon emission exists. Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Yes, we add something to the total. How much is the total volume of CO2 in the upper atmosphere? Miniscule, even after a century of our contributions.

Is it having an effect? Yeah, I'm sure it's having an effect. Is the effect important? Would it even be noticable if you take away the larger warming factors that are likely what caused this century's whole degree of mean warming?

Bottom line, this warming/change/whatever-they-call-it-now-to-keep-their-hysteria-machine in tact is a result of natural processes. It would not exist if we were the only factor.

Basically that argument is that cars or factories don't produce things like smog, which anyone that lives in any major city knows is real.

Presume much? Had you asked, I would have happily explained that the only serious consideration that should be given to the use of fossil fuels is the local pollution created in areas of high traffic congestion. However, that has been adequately addressed over the past half century. Air and water in this country are cleaner now than they have ever been since we started building factories and operating engines. Are they pristine? No. Do they need to be? I don't think so. Perhaps some of Josh's pet bacteria have to apply for refugee status now, but I'll leave it for him to cry over.

Or are you actually saying that to argue against the alleged warming effects of burning gas and oil is the same as saying there's no such thing as smog? Because that's not even close to a valid analogy.

If your argument is that a divine being or higher power has built in adequate compensation for humans or simply that its manifest destiny for humans to use the earth as it pleases, thats fine too, though it is a bit egocentric, similar to the belief that the earth is the center of the universe.

I am not archaic enough to argue from 'intelligent design'.

However, the planet is a carbon processor. There are these things called plants that turn CO2 into oxygen. When those levels increase, plant life follows suit. As plant populations grow, so does the planet's capacity for processing CO2.

Just another example of global climactic homeostasis.

The truth is that humans in general have created a landscape that is making galactic changes less bareable.

Is it the truth? Are you arguing against the IPCC Report on Anthropogenic Global Climate Change too? Because they concluded otherwise.

Or are you talking about the shrinking ozone hole over Antartica, which has also been found to not pose a threat to our health?

A person that stands outside in 1 spot for 365 days will experience changes resultant to natural changes of seasons. Sun, shade, night, rain, snow, etc. Same thing with the earth over the course of millenias. But if the person rips holes into their protective clothing knowing the various changes the spot he is standing on experiences, he cannot blame the spot for changing on him and claim that his ripping holes in his garmets had nothing to due with his sunburn or frostbite.

Have storms increased? Sounds like a function of precipitation systems whose water volume is higher than it used to be, which would follow the hypothesis that global warming increases oceanic condensation.

So you're complaining that galactic changes are a problem because we have a fuller layer of protection than before? And this is comparable to ripping holes in that protective layer?

Now, its fine to say, "the rewards outweighed the risks" or "God destined human progress and that is what we did", but its laughable to say that there were absolutely zero result to any action humans have taken.

Who said that there are zero results to any action human beings have taken? Can I place an argument here for the effects of personal, private philosophic errors accumulated over millenia, which make it nearly impossible for most human populations to have a clue how to deal with being told that they're causing cataclysmic changes to their home and will become extinct if they don't give control of their energy usage to the most inefficient and corrupt institution in their society? Because it's not too long a walk from people who abandon reason when it comes to grounding their ethical philosophy to people who buy into crazy scientific theories with no justification for them other than a vague sense that humans are evil by nature (original sin), that their unchecked self-interest (greed, lust, vanity, etc.) necessarily equates to a crime against nature, and that participating in an industrial society is just the kind of sin that would (and should) earn them extinction.

I don't believe in poisoning the place I live (Josh's nunnery to the contrary), but carbon dioxide is not poisoning the Earth.

 

[Adoptedscot]

I don't care about debating what caused it, the fact is the weather is changing everywhere. Some places are getting a signifcant difference from previous years, some not so much of a difference.
I hope everyone is safe and not hit too hard by it.
x

 

[ProgMatinee]

Devil, I'll admit that you've adequate read enough of the minority opinion to support what I sense was your preconceived opinion.

I'll have to admit to taking the side of the prevailing argument based on my eye witnessing the fulfillment of the predictions that were being made 20 years ago. I don't have time to read up on it as thoroughly as you have but as I said when the results are coming in as one side predicted, it leads to my opinion that they at least partially were right.

One small point I can counter, is the part about plant life offering a balance, and you said as plant life increases then the capacity to counter CO2 increases. The problem is plant life is not increasing, its decreasing so I don't understand your point.

Also, your last paragraph shows me that your scientific position in the argument is influenced by your philosophical belief in human manifest destiny. (I think I remember reading about how you felt it was your right and duty to leave a carbon footprint...?) So thats why I feel you have read enough of the descenting opinion, to support a preconceived opinion, and win the argument against someone less knowledgable like me, but it doesn't make your position right.

 

[devilof76]

None of the real time data since the early 90's has fit any of the computer model predictions. They were all completely wrong.

As for plants, I've seen significant peaks in the density of vegetation over the past twenty years. Some years are less than others, and some have been a lot more. I also live in an area where there isn't a lot of interference with plant growth, so I get the chance to see it fairly well controlled. I can easily say that my lawn is a lot nicer than it was in the 80's, and it has just as many bodies buried under it now as then.

And yeah, I exhale CO2. It's my right to breathe. Shoot me if I'm wrong.