**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[Khev]

IMO the best Star Wars is an homage to either WWII movies, Samurai films, or Westerns (or any combination of the three.) The worst tends to emulate cartoons and video games. For all of its faults BOBF was much more in line with the former group of influences than the latter which makes it feel much more connected to true SW even with some of it's zaniest elements (Vespa gang, etc.) than Kenobi.

Characters that were originally cartoon characters (Ashoka and Bane) felt more grounded than OWK Darth Vader!

 

[jye4ever]

IMO the best Star Wars is an homage to either WWII movies, Samurai films, or Westerns (or any combination of the three.) The worst tends to emulate cartoons and video games. For all of its faults BOBF was much more in line with the former group of influences than the latter which makes it feel much more connected to true SW even with some of it's zaniest elements (Vespa gang, etc.) than Kenobi.

Characters that were originally cartoon characters (Ashoka and Bane) felt more grounded than OWK Darth Vader!

That’s why the Ahsoka episode in Mando S2 worked so amazing.

 

[Khev]

That’s why the Ahsoka episode in Mando S2 worked so amazing.

Absolutely!

 

[jye4ever]

Qui-Gon force ghost should be angry that Reva survived and even more pissed that Maul survived.

 

[Otomofan]

That’s why the Ahsoka episode in Mando S2 worked so amazing.

 

[jye4ever]

I’m being serious Filoni captured the samurai homages perfectly and her split toe look was super fine looking too I love me some thick Rosario she’s the brown Carano Mmm Mm lol

 

[Otomofan]

I’m being serious Filoni captured the samurai homages perfectly and her split toe look was super fine looking too I love me some thick Rosario she’s the brown Carano Mmm Mm lol

Uhhhhhh.....which "split toe" are we talking about?

 

[chrisstbh]

Uhhhhhh.....which "split toe" are we talking about?

 

[YoNoSe]

I hope he sees Dooku's ghost in the finale.

"I literally told you exactly what was going on you absolute mushroom."

 

[loki2371]

I’m being serious Filoni captured the samurai homages perfectly and her split toe look was super fine looking too I love me some thick Rosario she’s the brown Carano Mmm Mm lol

I tried to sit through that awful movie where she showed her goods....

Probably the only reason it had as many viewers and made what it did at the BO....

 

[darth dennis]

Boba stealing Slave I and then immediately burying it in the Sarlacc = Anakin going room to room in the Jedi Temple killing even more kids.

I never thought I'd say this but I think Buffoon Fett actually comes out the bigger badass because at least his stupidity was against a much more worthy opponent.

How do you know it wasn't a kid Sarlacc? Hmmm?

 

[darth dennis]

it is a bit of a strawman, I am not claiming the OT is perfect (in fact, I don't think anyone does) however it is obviously superior to what we have gotten since, and we should in this day and age of prestige television expect better quality than we are getting. To say "the OT was not perfect, you should not expect more of current movie/show" is like saying "the first Ford car didn't have airbags or brake lights, you shouldn't complain that the 2022 model doesn't include them".

No, there is such a thing as a bar, a certain level of quality that generally the vast majority can agree on. the bar for good star wars isn't actually super high, it just requires competent writing with decent dialogue and logic, competent direction, consistency and adherence to the lore and "feel" of Star Wars and decent visuals. What Disney has given us since their acquisition has in almost every case not reached that bar, instead giving us character assassination, plot holes galore with added retroactive plot holes, retcons, very poor writing that gives Prometheus a run for its money etc etc etc.

Star Wars should improve with time, not degrade. We thought the prequels would be the low point but we were wrong.

I will 100% agree with you here. If you think about episodic television like Breaking Bad, Billions, Homeland, etc, etc. they have big budget feel and while there's not the complexity of a Star Wars universe, the production value of those shows is terrific. To have a Breaking Bad quality BoBF would've been a dream. I'll still enjoy the pieces that I can and largely dismiss stuff that is head scratching.

 

[Prime Clone]

Because that's not how the Force worked in ANH.

In ANH, it was a very different thing. It was subtle, almost like telepathy, and that was it. It was just focused feelings and energy.

Obi Wan used it to confuse the Tuskens and Stormtroopers on Tattooine and the Death Star, and he felt the deaths on Alderaan.

Vader sensed Obi Wan's presence and he sensed Luke's connection to the Force. He "choked" the mouthy Imperial but that could be considered to be the same sense of "strong suggestion" as the Jedi mind trick. He wasn't "physically" choking him but rather making him think he wasn't able to breath. Remember, when he REALLY choked a guy to death on the Tantive IV, he did it with his hands.

Luke's Force abilities were seen twice....he was able to sense where the remote was gonna shoot and he deflected the shots, and of course he calmed himself, focused, and made the shot that blew up the Death Star.

Really, the Force is a much less mystical thing in ANH. It's almost like "mindfulness" or ESP or something.

It wasn't until the writing of ESB that it took on its elevated status as an ability to manipulate physical objects like telekinesis. The first thing we see move by the power of the Force is Luke's saber when he's hanging upside down. Pretty crazy when you think about it. How the hell did he do that? He shouldn't have even thought it was possible.

We again see Vader choking several subordinates but we don't see him moving stuff around til he throw boxes at Luke. And of course there's the levitating rocks and X-Wing on Dagobah.

I don't think it was too outlandish in ROTJ either, with the exception of the Emperor's Force lightning.



And then came the good old PT, which made the Force a full blown super power with crazy running and all that stuff. And Midichlorians. Ugh. At the time I thought I'd never roll my eyes as hard at anything SW related more than the concept of "Midichlorians."

But never make assumptions. Disney managed to reach unthought of levels of full blown stupidity when they introduced a little character called "Rey" who not only possessed ALLLL of the crazy super powers from before without ever being told about them and zero training, but she was also able to PULL A MOVING STARSHIP FROM IT'S ACTUAL LIFTOFF BEFORE OBLITERATING IT WITH HER MIND. Holy crap that is the most blitheringly stupid thing I can imagine.


But that's Disney Trilogy, and that doesn't exist to me, so whatever.

The only Disney that exists to me is Mandalorian, and I don't think Luke did anything in his appearance that would be out of the ordinary in ESB/ROTJ with more focus and training, so that's cool.

Oh....wait.. I forgot.....Grogu "Force heals."


Never mind.


As you can see, attempting make any kind of sense out of this non-stop retconning and reversals going all the way back to 1977 is a complete exercise in futility.

Either accept it all in its complete ridiculousness, pick and choose what you like, or just wash your hands of the entire thing and watch something else.

All good points, but in ANH Vader also said: "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of The Force."

It also made sense to have more "crazy" Force usage in the PT as the Jedi were at their peak; there were simply more and better-trained Force-adepts running around.

 

[ironwez20]

O man I hope notZ . I really want to see more of anakins son in future projects

 

[ajp4mgs]

In all seriousness though Yoda's teachings in that very same film suggested that Vader could indeed have grabbed the Falcon with the Force assuming he was strong enough and had the presence of mind to attempt it in the split second he had to act.

The limits to what the Force can do are open to interpretation, I suppose, but I think some objective conclusions about those limits can be drawn from the scenes with Yoda and Luke on Dagobah. TaliBane already touched on this, and you already agreed for the most part, but I want to give my two cents anyway.

When Yoda says, "only different in your mind," we can conclude that this doesn't mean that lifting an X-Wing should be the same as lifting rocks because we see Yoda close his eyes and go into deep concentration to move the X-Wing *very slowly* with his hand outstretched before eventually seeming taxed by the experience. We should be able to all agree that this is certainly a different takeaway than what watching Yoda merely lift rocks would have looked like.

So, while Yoda's goal was to free Luke of self-doubt and redefine what he thought was "impossible," it doesn't mean that Yoda was suggesting that all things are equally possible when using the Force. If we were to believe that's what Yoda meant, then after 800 years of practicing with the Force, Yoda should've been enough of a god not to need Luke at all.

In general, I think there's a fine line to walk when dealing with "magical/spiritual" stuff in storytelling. Crossing that line will take it from fantasy to farce in a hurry. Over the last few years, that line has been crossed several times, IMO. Vader pulling that ship down and tearing its walls is pure farce. It renders so much of what came before it utterly meaningless.

Anyone looking to be able to enjoy Star Wars as a complete story without shutting his brain off is now facing an impossible challenge. When Jedi knight Luke is squashing Dark Troopers as if it's no more difficult than crumpling a sheet of paper, a viewer's functioning brain should be asking why Jedi *master* Obi-Wan couldn't simply crush Vader's mechanical parts. Just crushing Vader's mechanical respirator would basically lead to game over. That's a problem. Watching Vader in OWK versus watching Vader in the OT... that's a problem.

The impulse for "bigger" and "cooler" and more spectacle is eroding so much of the story foundations needlessly. Restraint shouldn't be this difficult for creators.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

The streaming era is about quantity over quality. Disney is simultaneously producing hundreds of hours of content across multiple franchises, instead of focusing on one big property at a time.

I think this is really the case right here. There are other streaming shows that look better, are written better and directed better than what Disney is doing with SW but they’re not nearly stretched as thin as Disney is.
It’s a shame they couldn’t have slowed down and taken the time to focus on just a couple projects to give them the justice they deserve. Kenobi being the biggest disappointment for me with Fett being a close second.

 

[abake]

You're making too much sense ajp, stop.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

I don’t disagree with ajp’s assessment necessarily but one flaw is comparing what Luke did to a non-living, non-force using machine to being able to crush Vader’s mechanical components in a similar way. Vader is a far different opponent when it comes to being affected by the force.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don’t disagree with ajp’s assessment necessarily but one flaw is comparing what Luke did to a non-living, non-force using machine to being able to crush Vader’s mechanical components in a similar way. Vader is a far different opponent when it comes to being affected by the force.

That's fair, but only to a certain extent. The idea that being a powerful Force user would make someone immune from other Force users is undermined when you see Vader lifting Kenobi in the air and choking him with the Force. It's undermined by Yoda tossing Palpatine ass-over-head across his desk in ROTS. There are plenty of other examples too, so it leads me back to at least wondering why certain characters aren't taking advantage of abilities (which are shown later) in logical ways.

 

[YoNoSe]

If Kenobi force-heals Luke from a season-trademark survivable gut stab in the finale that might be my last straw. I'm like one JJism away from permanent nope-out.