**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Anything that poops on the OT like this seems likely to do is something that absolutely should not be made. I don't want to see Vader and Kenobi duel each other when we all know it didn't happen just for the sake of making a few millennials wet their pants with glee. About the only thing that gives me hope is that Chow is directing and she might have the good sense not to **** this up after her stellar contributions to The Mandalorian.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Star Wars has become like Rap music -- for everybody and now pointless.

OT was Grand Master Flash and Run DMC

Now we have WAP.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Now we have WAP.

W - Wars
A - Are
P - Pointless

 

[matticus]

ST is the rapper you never heard of that got killed by some gang member that got dissed in the lyrics

 

[Wor-Gar]

Clean white tennis shoes? Thick gold chain?

Yes -- that's him!!!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Dayum, quite a hardline position. I've softened on the idea of this show over time. In fact I remember my earliest encounter with Ducky and aussiebott on this forum was when I asked - possibly in this thread - how am I going to accept as canon any new Star Wars that acknowledges the PT and their depiction of characters and events - which they rolled their eyes at and took some umbrage to.

As to you saying this



I pretty much did just that in my post yesterday.


Anyway, if nothing else there'll be some interesting discussions ahead

To address the comparison that you (and I'm sure sure countless others) are proposing, I just want to point out a key distinction between this potential ANH retcon and the one that Lucas did with the "...from a certain point of view" patch.

When the first Star Wars came out, there wasn't really a luxury for leaving Luke with glaringly unfinished business. Sequels were arguably a longshot. The ESB plot twist provided a more profound personal arc for the main character, thus justifying the retcon as essential to drive the narrative forward. Its purpose was to give the saga richer thematic underpinnings. But what you have now, in contrast, is a *fully-realized* story and character arcs being tinkered with for every extra dollar that can be squeezed out of those iconic characters and the less relevant gaps in their stories.

So, the better comparison, IMO, is when Lucas literally changed the dialogue between Vader and the Emperor in one of the "special" editions of ESB so as to better line up with his poorly-thought-out Anakin origin from the prequels. I prefer if the originals had been considered off-limits masterpieces, free of any future tweaking. But still... Lucas doing it is one thing; it's his creation. Having it done now is a different level of objectionable.

Retconning key context from the original Star Wars movie to shamelessly pander to those wanting the "coolness" of another duel between Ewan's Kenobi and Hayden's Vader is something that I can only shake my head at, rather than try to justify it. And then some lame explanation for why Vader would identify himself as "a learner" 10 years after Mustafar will follow. It will be so much laughably stupider than anything the Kenobi character uttered on Dagobah in ROTJ. The context of not only Vader's ANH dialogue, but also Tarkin's, should be beyond any attempt to provide new context now.

Even if this shamelessly pandering duel is used to patch up incongruity with the PT, I still wouldn't see that as reason enough to diminish a key scene in ANH. It's like being disgruntled that your exterior walls have crap stains which you can't remove, so in an effort to make things seem more unified, you smear crap on the impeccable interior walls. I'd rather just do my best to ignore (or, preferably, paint over) the unsightly walls while preserving the excellent ones.

But yes, fun discussions to eventually be had.

 

[Khev]

To address the comparison that you (and I'm sure sure countless others) are proposing, I just want to point out a key distinction between this potential ANH retcon and the one that Lucas did with the "...from a certain point of view" patch.

When the first Star Wars came out, there wasn't really a luxury for leaving Luke with glaringly unfinished business. Sequels were arguably a longshot. The ESB plot twist provided a more profound personal arc for the main character, thus justifying the retcon as essential to drive the narrative forward. Its purpose was to give the saga richer thematic underpinnings. But what you have now, in contrast, is a *fully-realized* story and character arcs being tinkered with for every extra dollar that can be squeezed out of those iconic characters and the less relevant gaps in their stories.

So, the better comparison, IMO, is when Lucas literally changed the dialogue between Vader and the Emperor in one of the "special" editions of ESB so as to better line up with his poorly-thought-out Anakin origin from the prequels. I prefer if the originals had been considered off-limits masterpieces, free of any future tweaking. But still... Lucas doing it is one thing; it's his creation. Having it done now is a different level of objectionable.

Retconning key context from the original Star Wars movie to shamelessly pander to those wanting the "coolness" of another duel between Ewan's Kenobi and Hayden's Vader is something that I can only shake my head at, rather than try to justify it. And then some lame explanation for why Vader would identify himself as "a learner" 10 years after Mustafar will follow. It will be so much laughably stupider than anything the Kenobi character uttered on Dagobah in ROTJ. The context of not only Vader's ANH dialogue, but also Tarkin's, should be beyond any attempt to provide new context now.

Even if this shamelessly pandering duel is used to patch up incongruity with the PT, I still wouldn't see that as reason enough to diminish a key scene in ANH. It's like being disgruntled that your exterior walls have crap stains which you can't remove, so in an effort to make things seem more unified, you smear crap on the impeccable interior walls. I'd rather just do my best to ignore (or, preferably, paint over) the unsightly walls while preserving the excellent ones.

But yes, fun discussions to eventually be had.

The reason that none of that would bother me is because I already have multiple canons including but not limited to:

1. Theatrical OT with no PT
2. OT:SE with PT.

My "OT with no PT" canon can never and will never be tainted by anything they tack on to the PT going forward since I completely dismiss it all. But my "OT:SE with PT" canon? Sure if they want to add something that makes certain PT elements cooler then have at it since the OT:SE is already permanently tainted by it's association and conformance to the PT anyway.

 

[matticus]

The reason that none of that would bother me is because I already have multiple canons including but not limited to:

1. Theatrical OT with no PT
2. OT:SE with PT.

My "OT with no PT" canon can never and will never be tainted by anything they tack on to the PT going forward since I completely dismiss it all. But my "OT:SE with PT" canon? Sure if they want to add something that makes certain PT elements cooler then have at it since the OT:SE is already permanently tainted by it's association and conformance to the PT anyway.

The more they tack on, the worse it gets for the OT story and quality.

 

[Khev]

The more they tack on, the worse it gets for the OT story and quality.

Yep which is why compartmentalization is a must if you're to enjoy any of it.

Also another reason why the Infinity Saga is just so freaking amazing. Rewatching the original Iron Man after revisiting IW and EG in no way made me wish that they had just stopped the MCU after two or three films. They went *23* films where everything connected satisfactorily all while saving the best for last!

You'd have to be crazy to cut IW/EG out of your MCU canon which instantly makes you accept pretty much everything leading up to it. But with SW it's just the opposite with the only "must haves" being SW and ESB and everything after being disposable to varying degrees.

 

[matticus]

Yep which is why compartmentalization is a must if you're to enjoy any of it.

I really can't enjoy SW as a whole anymore. So much has been tainted with Disney/KK/Woke Group that while liking Mando, there isn't other properties to go to. Comics are stuck with Vader. High Republic is woke propaganda in novel form. Sure Obi-Wan might have some cool stuff. Andor is a head scratcher. Fett is honestly an old man. But it is just beating an old drum that is honestly a little late. You know a franchise is failing when they have to go back to their old dogs to carry it again. Star Trek is the same with Picard. People keep consuming it so why change?

 

[Asta]

If Star Wars was still creator/artist controlled they would probably have let it die long ago, before it could devolve to the point where it became a snake continually eating itself, and gorging up the contents of it's stomach as new content.

Nothing dies when it generates this much money, and was purchased to make money.

You just have to take the good with the bad, but everything eventually taints the original, as the PT did to the OT.

 

[Khev]

I really can't enjoy SW as a whole anymore. So much has been tainted with Disney/KK/Woke Group that while liking Mando, there isn't other properties to go to. Comics are stuck with Vader. High Republic is woke propaganda in novel form. Sure Obi-Wan might have some cool stuff. Andor is a head scratcher. Fett is honestly an old man. But it is just beating an old drum that is honestly a little late. You know a franchise is failing when they have to go back to their old dogs to carry it again. Star Trek is the same with Picard. People keep consuming it so why change?

I hear you. KK's woke story group truly is the worst but I don't think they've really contributed much to the films or Mando and are pretty much just relegated to High Republic and comic book nonsense.

I think I got burned so bad by the SE's and PT that it's easy for me to focus on shining stars like RO and the aspects of the ST that I like. But yeah watching IW and EG again (sheesh Khev we get it you're all excited about IMAX Enhanced MCU now shut up about it will ya, lol) really heightened the flaws of the ST even more for me. I mean IW/EG came out smack dab in the middle of the ST but they still shine as near perfect entries in their respective series while the ST settles more and more into the realm of "qualified" successes. An undeniable mixed bag that coasts on the ticking of boxes of certain elements I've long desired to see on screen coupled with the experience of just getting to share them with my kids.

IW/EG needs no such qualifiers or asterisks, they are just freaking astoundingly good in and of themselves.

 

[matticus]

I hear you. KK's woke story group truly is the worst but I don't think they've really contributed much to the films or Mando and are pretty much just relegated to High Republic and comic book nonsense.

I think I got burned so bad by the SE's and PT that it's easy for me to focus on shining stars like RO and the aspects of the ST that I like. But yeah watching IW and EG again (sheesh Khev we get it you're all excited about IMAX Enhanced MCU now shut up about it will ya, lol) really heightened the flaws of the ST even more for me. I mean IW/EG came out smack dab in the middle of the ST but they still shine as near perfect entries in their respective series while the ST settles more and more into the realm of "qualified" successes. An undeniable mixed bag that coasts on the ticking of boxes of certain elements I've long desired to see on screen coupled with the experience of just getting to share them with my kids.

IW/EG needs no such qualifiers or asterisks, they are just freaking astoundingly good in and of themselves.

You got Feige who understands Marvel. He established a group of writers behind the scenes, gives a open minded direction and lets the main screenwriter(s) and director(s) the freedom to make a better film. Then it can be washed again with another writer with Feige supervising.

KK just says this guy is doing this, go figure out some new material cause we want new characters to make new money. She has no idea about SW content and neither does the people she hires. It shows. Filoni was hands off I'm sure with animation causr he is Lucas' boy and somehow Favreau got her to listen to common sense.

Night and day difference. It's better to get the best stories out there with a lot of ideas. But Feige is good at keeping it on track and the wisest voice to win out. He has so much material that it impossible to achieve A+ material constantly.

Haven't heard anything on The Acolyte and Rogue Squadron got kicked so she is really steering the ship. Rumor was Mando might be done w S3, maybe Favreau is done w her clown ***. We'll see.

 

[jye4ever]

I’m confused with this IM1 and a few others having Imax inclusion because the only MCU movies i’m aware of that were filmed with Imax cameras were:

CW (partially)
CM (partially)
Eternals (partially)
IW (all of it)
EG (all of it)
Shang (all of it)

Thor 3, BP2 and The Marvels are also being entirely made with Imax.

It was weird seeing IM1 jump into a 1:90 liemsx ratio but I liked it lol

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I hear you. KK's woke story group truly is the worst but I don't think they've really contributed much to the films

What? Literally what? The ST was the KK/story groups project

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Yep which is why compartmentalization is a must if you're to enjoy any of it.

Also another reason why the Infinity Saga is just so freaking amazing. Rewatching the original Iron Man after revisiting IW and EG in no way made me wish that they had just stopped the MCU after two or three films. They went *23* films where everything connected satisfactorily all while saving the best for last!

You'd have to be crazy to cut IW/EG out of your MCU canon which instantly makes you accept pretty much everything leading up to it. But with SW it's just the opposite with the only "must haves" being SW and ESB and everything after being disposable to varying degrees.

It's easier to accept the Infinity Saga MCU movies as a whole than it is SW because most of the MCU films were much less connected and very stand alone. Most of the MCU were entertaining films but I wouldn't call very many of them great. I personally don't think a lot of the MCU films are aging well, but there was a handful of terrific movies in there and very few were offensively bad. It also doesn't help that Endgame was a bit of a mixed bag.

 

[darth dennis]

Anything that poops on the OT like this seems likely to do is something that absolutely should not be made. I don't want to see Vader and Kenobi duel each other when we all know it didn't happen just for the sake of making a few millennials wet their pants with glee. About the only thing that gives me hope is that Chow is directing and she might have the good sense not to **** this up after her stellar contributions to The Mandalorian.

I am NOT a millennial and I plan on wearing Depends during my viewing of the series...so there!

 

[Khev]

I’m confused with this IM1 and a few others having Imax inclusion because the only MCU movies i’m aware of that were filmed with Imax cameras were:

CW (partially)
CM (partially)
Eternals (partially)
IW (all of it)
EG (all of it)
Shang (all of it)

Thor 3, BP2 and The Marvels are also being entirely made with Imax.

It was weird seeing IM1 jump into a 1:90 liemsx ratio but I liked it lol

Okay I just looked into which films were filmed with what and I see that IM1 was filmed on Super 35. As many already know Super 35 allows for the filming of two aspect ratios simultaneously. A widescreen version for theaters and an open matte version for home and airplane viewing with the open matte actually showing more picture than what was in theaters. It looks like for the Disney "IMAX Enhanced" version of IM1 Disney totally cheated by selectively alternating back and forth between the theatrical and TV versions for select scenes to give the illusion of a shifting ratio IMAX experience.

But like you said I don't care because it works and I like it, lol.

Okay so I wasn't crazy and Nolan really was the one to introduce IMAX into mainstream blockbusters with TDK.

GOTG1 was actually the first Marvel movie to have shifting aspect ratios in the theater for IMAX showings but it wasn't actually filmed with IMAX cameras per se. Same with Thor Ragnarok and GOTG2. Digital cameras but with shifting aspect ratios just to give more height for IMAX showings (I can attest to this firsthand as I saw both in Liemax). Which now seems very strange to me. Why not just do what Joss Whedon did for the original Avengers and film the whole movies at 1.85:1??? Very strange.

So yep you're right jye, the only genuine IMAX in the Infinity Saga was CW Airport Scene, IW, EG, and I guess Captain Marvel as well.

 

[Khev]

What? Literally what? The ST was the KK/story groups project

Okay since apparently your SW knowledge exceeds my own please do tell how you came by this information that contradicts every interview/making of book/documentary/director's commentary of the films that I've ever come across.

 

[matticus]

I remember GOTG was in 3D so maybe that contributed to the back and forth ratios? I also know that IMAX camera are loud and it is difficult to capture dialogue, so maybe some just chose to do it during action sequences.