Blade Runner 2049 (October 6th, 2017) *SPOILERS*

[Otomofan]

Clearly this movie has a lot of hardcore fans. And I understand that and I'm not begrudging anyone their opinions.

Just saying it's not for me. And of course the kneejerk reaction when people say that is to belittle someone and say I'm intellectually inferior and I could never understand and appreciate it on as deep a level as the REAL fans.

For years I've been jealous of jazz fans. I've always wanted to hear whatever it is they hear when they listen. So I listened to the best jazz albums of all time. Coltrane, Parker, Mingus. Still just sounded like a bunch of guys dicking around with their instruments for an hour.

If jazz fans wanna call me an ignoramus for that, I guess that's up to them. If you guys think I'm some kind of mouth breather cause I didn't love this movie, nothing I say is gonna change your mind. I'll excuse myself from this thread now and go back to my usual bashing of The Last Jedi, which is the cinematic equivalent of having a tooth extracted if the dentist did it anally.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Clearly this movie has a lot of hardcore fans. And I understand that and I'm not begrudging anyone their opinions.

Just saying it's not for me. And of course the kneejerk reaction when people say that is to belittle someone and say I'm intellectually inferior and I could never understand and appreciate it on as deep a level as the REAL fans.

For years I've been jealous of jazz fans. I've always wanted to hear whatever it is they hear when they listen. So I listened to the best jazz albums of all time. Coltrane, Parker, Mingus. Still just sounded like a bunch of guys dicking around with their instruments for an hour.

If jazz fans wanna call me an ignoramus for that, I guess that's up to them. If you guys think I'm some kind of mouth breather cause I didn't love this movie, nothing I say is gonna change your mind. I'll excuse myself from this thread now and go back to my usual bashing of The Last Jedi, which is the cinematic equivalent of having a tooth extracted if the dentist did it anally.

To be fair, I felt like you on my first viewing. I thought 2049 was an admirable film, well-crafted, that I just happened to hate everything about. Decided to go and see it again as some parts kept rattling around in my head for a week after watching it and enjoyed it far more the second time. I don't think it's perfect and I certainly don't think it beats the original but it's a damn good film on its own merits.

 

[karamazov80]

For years I've been jealous of jazz fans. I've always wanted to hear whatever it is they hear when they listen. So I listened to the best jazz albums of all time. Coltrane, Parker, Mingus. Still just sounded like a bunch of guys dicking around with their instruments for an hour.

Seriously though, you are jumping in the deep end if you start with guys like Parker and Mingus. Better to start with more broadly popular jazz--Benny Goodman, Louis Armstrong, Nat Cole, and Artie Shaw, then move to Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, and Billie Holiday, and finally step up to the likes of Coltrane, Dave Brubeck, Wes Montgomery, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Monk, Sonny Rollins, Pat Metheny, etc. The bebop movement started as an alternative to popular jazz, after all. These were guys who weren't satisfied playing to mass audiences, and did that for themselves first. It's not going to be as accessible as other types of jazz.

 

[RIDDICK]

Clearly this movie has a lot of hardcore fans.

Just like Akira.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Seriously though, you are jumping in the deep end if you start with guys like Parker and Mingus. Better to start with more broadly popular jazz--Benny Goodman, Louis Armstrong, Nat Cole, and Artie Shaw, then move to Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, and Billie Holiday, and finally step up to the likes of Coltrane, Dave Brubeck, Wes Montgomery, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Monk, Sonny Rollins, Pat Metheny, etc. The bebop movement started as an alternative to popular jazz, after all. These were guys who weren't satisfied playing to mass audiences, and did that for themselves first. It's not going to be as accessible as other types of jazz.

Interestingly enough, Katsuhiro Otomo listened mostly to jazz while working on the Akira manga according to one interview I saw with him. Japanese jazz might be a better entry point for Otomofan given that his tastes seem to lie in that country's direction.

 

[karamazov80]

Cowboy Bebop has a terrific jazz soundtrack, so it may be easier to appreciate when it's connected to an anime. . .but maybe not.

That second album you link to is interesting, by the way. Jazz fusion mixed with some elements of disco! That stuff was semi-accessible in the '70s, but nowadays will probably be even harder for someone to get into than Charlie Parker or what have you.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Cowboy Bebop has a terrific jazz soundtrack, so it may be easier to appreciate when it's connected to an anime. . .but maybe not.

That second album you link to is interesting, by the way. Jazz fusion mixed with some elements of disco! That stuff was semi-accessible in the '70s, but nowadays will probably be even harder for someone to get into than Charlie Parker or what have you.

That one's a go-to for when I need to be in a productive flow state. The Bebop soundtrack is an excellent jumping-on point in my opinion, a really solid collection of tracks of by a supergroup of brilliant musicians. Al Di Meola was another musician who helped ease me into jazz after teenage years spent listening to nothing but rock and metal.

 

[ZaCHw117]

And as for Joi, she was just a computer program. She didn't have a personality; that was just her programming.

My god that’s half the point of the movie.

what makes us human?

Cowboy Bebop has a terrific jazz soundtrack.

If he doesn’t like BR chances are he’ll hate CB too.

 

[TaliBane]

After the unbridled hype amongst sci-fi geeks and film nerds, I finally decided to give this a try.

First thing that hit me like a ton of bricks is the gorgeous production design and attention to detail.

The second thing is how slow and plodding it it.

Both could be said about the original though. I've come to really love the original but no joke, it took me about 5 tries to get through it cause I kept falling asleep. The middle really drags, but the opening shots, Ford at the noodle shop, and of course the all time classic rooftop soliloquy are cinematic legends.

I know some people think the sequel is even better. I don't know. It sure as hell LOOKS beautiful though. You can see where the money went. But I'm of the opinion that looks aren't enough in a movie. The characters and story need to suck you in right from the first five or ten minutes, and a lot of "artsy" movies intentionally don't do that. And that results in audiences staying away.

Edit: aaaannd I'm out. I gave it a full hour. This is the cinematic equivalent of horse tranquilizer but less fun. A gorgeous turd is still a turd. I don't give a crap about the characters or story. Utter fail on the filmmakers' part. Ryan Gosling staring into space for minutes at a time. No thanks. I'm sure I'll be accused of "just not getting it" but I just call it like I see it. Slow paced movies are fine if there's compelling characters or story...this is just ******y. No wonder people stayed away in droves.

I liked the movie but can see how some (many?) feel this way about it. I actually loved the pace and the epic bleakness of the visuals, but many things in the movie to me were muddled, both from a plot and thematic (and even world) perspective. BR1 was clear - BR 2049 not as much. Several elements - like the virtual girlfriend and the orphanage I didn't feel like worked in the context of the BR world. It also lacked a Roy-type villain which would have helped a lot.

And while it was nice twist, I felt Gosling's character should have been that replicant child because dramatically (and thematically) things evaporated for me as soon as that became clear. HF was wasted, but his onscreen persona has become somewhat befuddled in recent years so I guess I didn't need more of him, or have had him more in on the action. Ryan can be a bit of a blank slate in movies but I actually thought he worked well in this.

On reflection, I think the movie was more of a nostalgia trip for me - a fun return to the BR world (something more immersive and visionary that much that's onscreen today) and even expanding on it a bit - but consequently, less about a theme and story that felt was relevant standing on its own.

 

[crows]

Clearly this movie has a lot of hardcore fans. And I understand that and I'm not begrudging anyone their opinions.

Just saying it's not for me. And of course the kneejerk reaction when people say that is to belittle someone and say I'm intellectually inferior and I could never understand and appreciate it on as deep a level as the REAL fans.

For years I've been jealous of jazz fans. I've always wanted to hear whatever it is they hear when they listen. So I listened to the best jazz albums of all time. Coltrane, Parker, Mingus. Still just sounded like a bunch of guys dicking around with their instruments for an hour.

If jazz fans wanna call me an ignoramus for that, I guess that's up to them. If you guys think I'm some kind of mouth breather cause I didn't love this movie, nothing I say is gonna change your mind. I'll excuse myself from this thread now and go back to my usual bashing of The Last Jedi, which is the cinematic equivalent of having a tooth extracted if the dentist did it anally.

My only problem is that your problems with this movie are almost the same problems people had with the matrix and Alien or 2001 space oddysey or problems people had with Moon or stuff like that.

Yiu dont have to like bladerunner,and your reasons for not liking it are very valid. You are in control of your mind, no one can change that

But explain to me how you dont have those same problems with 2001 space oddysey or Alien

Alien has had the same kind of complaints, too long. Too boring, nothing happens, the robot was unrealistic, ripley showed no emotion, the movie was too cold.

Im just saying, if i go by your reasoning then i would expect you to hate 2001 or alien or Moon.

Its like, its like it i hated rush hour and you would expect me to hate lethal weapon and expected me to hate tango and cash or stuff like that

I totally get why u didnt like bladerunner but then in my mind you would hate to hate 2001 and Alien as well. They shared the same critiques

 

[crows]

Oto might like this
My favorite jazz band.

 

[Otomofan]

If he doesn’t like BR chances are he’ll hate CB too.

Oh ye of little faith. After AKIRA, Cowboy Bebop is hands down my favorite anime. I had the DVD set for years and upgraded to blu ray when that was finally released. Seen the whole series and the movie straight through countless times. And I love the soundtrack(s) too!

 

[karamazov80]

 

[RIDDICK]

Speakin' of great visuals and timeless classic of animation... The Last Unicorn. Now THAT's a damn good film!

One thing I really like about BR49 is how fairy-taly it feels. It really adds to the overall uniqueness of the sequel and makes it so much more mature and less cynical.

 

[Otomofan]

My only problem is that your problems with this movie are almost the same problems people had with the matrix and Alien or 2001 space oddysey or problems people had with Moon or stuff like that.

Yiu dont have to like bladerunner,and your reasons for not liking it are very valid. You are in control of your mind, no one can change that

But explain to me how you dont have those same problems with 2001 space oddysey or Alien

Alien has had the same kind of complaints, too long. Too boring, nothing happens, the robot was unrealistic, ripley showed no emotion, the movie was too cold.

Im just saying, if i go by your reasoning then i would expect you to hate 2001 or alien or Moon.

Its like, its like it i hated rush hour and you would expect me to hate lethal weapon and expected me to hate tango and cash or stuff like that

I totally get why u didnt like bladerunner but then in my mind you would hate to hate 2001 and Alien as well. They shared the same critiques

I just don't think you can paint The Matrix, 2001, Alien, or Moon with the same brush just cause they're all science fiction movies. All of those movies had their strengths, and some weaknesses. They all came out at different times too. I love the Matrix, love 2001, liked Alien but prefer Aliens, and thought Moon was very very well done, but have never had any desire to revisit it.

I wasn't around when 2001 or Alien premiered. I saw them well after the fact, but I still enjoyed them. I saw Matrix opening weekend and it absolutely blew me out of my seat, despite the fact that I recognized all the stuff the Wachowski (sisters) lifted from other sources which a lot of that initial audience probably didn't.

I'm also pretty tired of the whole "what is the nature of humanity?" theme in robots and AI. It's all been done so many times, and I don't think anyone is really adding anything new to it. We got a whole 12 hours of that on Westworld too. I think I've just watched too many movies, seen too much anime, and read too many comic books over the the last 3 decades. It's all getting very repetitive.

I'm not trying to personally offend anyone. I'm glad you guys love this movie. Just like I'm glad people love jazz music or all the 200 genres of metal music. That stuff is just not my cup of tea. I've tried to appreciate it and I'd like to think I went in to all that stuff with an open mind, but it just didn't connect with me on an emotional level.

 

[crows]

I just don't think you can paint The Matrix, 2001, Alien, or Moon with the same brush just cause they're all science fiction movies. All of those movies had their strengths, and some weaknesses. They all came out at different times too. I love the Matrix, love 2001, liked Alien but prefer Aliens, and thought Moon was very very well done, but have never had any desire to revisit it.

I wasn't around when 2001 or Alien premiered. I saw them well after the fact, but I still enjoyed them. I saw Matrix opening weekend and it absolutely blew me out of my seat, despite the fact that I recognized all the stuff the Wachowski (sisters) lifted from other sources which a lot of that initial audience probably didn't.

I'm also pretty tired of the whole "what is the nature of humanity?" theme in robots and AI. It's all been done so many times, and I don't think anyone is really adding anything new to it. We got a whole 12 hours of that on Westworld too. I think I've just watched too many movies, seen too much anime, and read too many comic books over the the last 3 decades. It's all getting very repetitive.

I'm not trying to personally offend anyone. I'm glad you guys love this movie. Just like I'm glad people love jazz music or all the 200 genres of metal music. That stuff is just not my cup of tea. I've tried to appreciate it and I'd like to think I went in to all that stuff with an open mind, but it just didn't connect with me on an emotional level.

im not painting those movies with the same brush because they are sci fi, or even the theme of humanity.
I literally just said that the complaints you had over bladeruner are the exact same complaints people had over those movies. you sound the same as the people that criticized those movies .
thats what my point was. that your posts reminded me of having to defend the matrix and alien and Moon to other people, specially the complaints that those robot or virtual people "aren't real so why do we care" or that "they arent real so why do they act real, they dont have real emotions so why do we bother"

thats all i was saying, and those people are okay to hate alien or matrix or 2001, just like it is okay for you to hate bladerunner, i just find it funny to hear the same stuff 20 years later. but for a different movie
Matrix literally had the same problems for people.

Also I have to agree with Riddick, GenoCyber is SO much better than Akira. they dont even compare. GenoCyber is everything aKira wish it was... superior in every way. visually, storywise, character wise. Genocyber was pretty shocking and messed up but the story was so much more entertaining.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Oh ye of little faith. After AKIRA, Cowboy Bebop is hands down my favorite anime. I had the DVD set for years and upgraded to blu ray when that was finally released. Seen the whole series and the movie straight through countless times. And I love the soundtrack(s) too!

 

[crows]

 

[ZaCHw117]

It really doesn’t.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

Watched this tonight. Thought it was really good. Kept me interested until the end.

It was long, but it really needed to do what it did. I just get uncomfortable sitting for 2 1/2 hours straight.