Breaking Bad

[batfan08]

Walt's appeal comes in the form of his character: an underdog. That's why people like him; because, even though he does despicable things, anyone who's ever been shat on or unappreciated lives vicariously through him. You look at the Walt who's working at Bogdan's car wash in season 1, and you compare that to the genius criminal mastermind you see in those last eight episodes, and, as unethical as it is, you appreciate that. It's kind of funny, though, because I think the show embodies that Ozymandias poem perfectly. We look at the finale and we think "Walt's an Outlaw. He's done what anyone would want to do; he's gone out on his own terms," and that's kind of self-evident by that look of contentment on his face, but then, I want you to think back to the Season 1 Walt who worked in Bogdan's car wash. How would his death have come to pass? He would've been miserable. He would've felt as though his life amounted to nothing in those last few moments, as he laid in his bed, completely bald and gaunt. Or, maybe, he wouldn't have. Maybe he would've seen all of his friends and family that surrounded him; Skylar, the kids, Hank, Marie, Gomie, hell, even Gretchen and Elliot, and, maybe, he would've seen that the value in his life didn't have to be material worth to be important.

Then, I think about Jessie. In a lot of ways, he succeeded as Jessie's teacher; he, ultimately, led him to realize his full potential, and, in doing so, Jessie realized that this was not the life he wanted. That being said, was Jessie's revelation worth it? That's one life that he managed to save, but how many did he destroy along the way? Hank would still be here, he's still have his family, Gomie would be alive. That's the genius of Breaking Bad; there are "pros and cons" to everything.

 

[DiFabio]

Walt was sort of a piece of **** back in Season 1 too though. He was certainly no "Mr. Chips".

 

[batfan08]

Walt was sort of a piece of **** back in Season 1 too though. He was certainly no "Mr. Chips".

How's that? I'm talking about Walt at the beginning of the show; before the news cast or "Crazy 8." I'd hardly say a Chemistry teacher who works a second job to support his pregnant wife and disabled teenager is a piece of ****.

 

[SwedishHeat]

LOST - (SPOILER) Aside from the ending this was truly a great show
Sapranos – Great Show
Mad Men - Enjoyable
Breaking Bad – When People say You got to watch this…….You Do. Believe the hype.
Deadwood – The dialogue is fantastic. I can watch episodes over and over. Highly recommend subtitles or you have no idea WTF is going on!!
The Walking Dead – It's OK but hands down the MOST over rated / over hyped show. It was like I was waiting for the "punch line" to understand why everyone is raving about. It never came. With The Walking Dead I just did not get the hype. What did people see that I did not?

Fixed it for ya'

 

[Lakhota]

Re: No love for Breaking Bad?

Yeah I like that list, I have never seen The Walking Dead but I know people are absolutely batshit over it. I was in the hospital on morphine and so I think half of the first season and can't remember anything. Something to do with death, violence, immortality is not entertainment for me. Watching people getting this disembowel their head cut off and burnt to a crisp really disgust me. But people can watch whatever they want, everything does not have to be for everyone.

 

[Rock83]

Walt was sort of a piece of **** back in Season 1 too though. He was certainly no "Mr. Chips".

Nowhere near the person he turned out to be,but yeah it was always there because his anger was boiling inside and he never had the backbone to stand up for himself.During S1 he was at least still likeable,but towards the end of S4 and through S5 he was easy to hate
Im not saying i hate the character,because i don't.Just saying that besides his extreme methods,his temper made him do things he didn't even mean to do.He ****ed up things that affected others too.

I love his story though,a typical underdog story.But a sad one because no one wins in the end.

 

[Deckard]

I dunno abou you guys, but I didn't find myself rooting for Walt before he broke bad in that first episode.

He was an a-hole, didn't know how to take charge of his life, squandered oppurtunity, didn't stick up for his kid, wasn't sure of himself etc etc. When he broke, he finally became likable and his actions only affected others who were "in the game" and were either criminals or knew the risks. That's why we rooted for him, that contrast.

It wasn't until he developed his ego from beating Gus that he became reckless(partly due to too much ambition) and his actions affected innocents as well. He peaked(he talks about it in The Fly) and began to slink backwards slowly to everything we had hated. He was giving up again in the bar but than that last episode managed to basically recapture his entire show arc in one hour and let him go out on top(or as close to it as he'd ever get).

 

[DiFabio]

I dunno abou you guys, but I didn't find myself rooting for Walt before he broke bad in that first episode.

He was an a-hole, didn't know how to take charge of his life, squandered oppurtunity, didn't stick up for his kid, wasn't sure of himself etc etc. When he broke, he finally became likable and his actions only affected others who were "in the game" and were either criminals or knew the risks. That's why we rooted for him, that contrast.

It wasn't until he developed his ego from beating Gus that he became reckless(partly due to too much ambition) and his actions affected innocents as well. He peaked(he talks about it in The Fly) and began to slink backwards slowly to everything we had hated. He was giving up again in the bar but than that last episode managed to basically recapture his entire show arc in one hour and let him go out on top(or as close to it as he'd ever get).

Yup, pretty much.

Let's not forget, the very first episode Walt is blackmailing his former student and acting like a ***** (putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger). I don't hate Walter White, I think he's a compelling character, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a grade A POS throughout the series. I liked Hank, Jesse, Mike and Saul more than I did Walt on the likeability meter.

 

[crows]

The one thing I always hated about Walt, and what I think led to his downfall, was how he never gave Jesse any respect at all. I know Jessie was a lazy pothead guy and wasn't the smartest, But Walt's attitude towards him was pretty awful and uncalled for at times.
Walk needed his help and they were partners, yet Walt was always a huge jerk. Sometimes Jesse deserved it but most times he didn't.

It always felt like Jesse was Walter's punching bag and he used him to let out all the anger he had towards everything going bad in his life. I hated that.

 

[Deckard]

He very much respected Jesse and gave him a lot of credit and respect. He taught him his formula, he tried to save him from Jane and addiction, he tried every way not to hurt him, to send him to a better life. He saved his life from the drug dealers that worked for Gus. He refused Saul's pleads to have him killed. He saved him from Meth Damon and the M60 Onslaught and took a bullet for him. (Compare that to Gale) Jesse was a lightning rod and absorbed some of the ******** but since he didn't bring pure forumula to the table that's a pretty fair trade for millions of dollars. None of that blow back was stuff Walt could have predicted like Hank taking it so personally and assaulting Jesse or him not being able to cope and turning to drugs. Jesse brought all of his problems on himself just the same as Walter. People are acting like he's a redeemed good guy. He's every bit as criminal and evil as Walt, he just isn't anywhere near as inventive/intelligent enough to be a leader.

 

[DiFabio]

Now I don't completely agree with blackmask, but . . .

Jesse did make pure crystal meth. He was intelligent, the magnet and train heist were all his idea. Towards the end there, Walt was pretty merciless to Jesse, especially in season 5, especially in Ozymandias. From poisoning Brock, from putting the ricin in Jesse's Roomba (to coax him into staying in the game), etc. Walt wanted Jesse dead right then and there at Tohajiilee. Then later in the final episode, he intended to kill Jesse right then and there. It was only when he saw what Jack and the gang did to him that he decided to save him. I'm surprised the mental anguish and manipulative mind games that Walt played didn't completely break Jesse.

Like Mike said, if Walt had simply learned his place, they'd all be fine.

 

[Deckard]

That's debatable, that last part I mean. Gus was worried about Walter's health from the moment he became aware of it and began to court Gale. Now, granted, it was Walt's own constant pushing that led to Gus deciding to try to replace him, but it was also a result of him saving Jesse's life. He was sitting home so worried about him, he went out to check and make sure he was ok.

At the end, yea ofc Walter wanted Jesse dead, he was working with the cops and not just endangering Walt, but his family and everything he ever worked for. Jesse wasn't exactly ever much of a family oriented guy either and became completely reckless. And he didn't exactly tell Hank the full extent of his own involvement either.

Not making it a Team Jesse Vs Team Walt thing, just saying both are equally responisible for what happened to them and made horrible decisions in their own personal down time that came back to haunt their working relationships. Both had mixed feelings about the other almost always. But Walt absolutely made an effort to help Jesse, it simply wouldn't take. Where as Jesse needed the utmost convincing to even save Walt's life let alone couldn't believe Walt cared about him, because why would anyone care about Jesse when he doesn't even care about himself?

 

[crows]

any time Walt didn't yell or disrespect Jesse was because he either needed something from him, or because Walt was in danger or something. Yet if Jesse was the one that needed help Walt would tend to ignore him and treat him like crap. Sometimes all Jesse needed was some guidance or just "a shoulder to cry on" but Walt couldn't give a hoot.
You cannot deny Walt was very condescending with Jesse most of the time. And insulted him on a daily basis.

 

[DiFabio]

@Deckard

Yeah, I agree with all of that.

It's sort of sad though because I liked Walt and Jesse's friendship at times. Jesse was almost like this surrogant son to Walt and Walt was like a surrogant father to Jesse. Especially those little moments like Walt's speech about Jesse to Jane's dad, to the funyun eating, to Jesse covering up an exhausted Walt with blankets on the couch in the super lab, to Jesse being the one to remember Walt's 51st birthday, buying him a gift.

It was depressing seeing those two as empty shells of their former selves in Felina.

 

[Deckard]

Yet if Jesse was the one that needed help Walt would tend to ignore him and treat him like crap. Sometimes all Jesse needed was some guidance or just "a shoulder to cry on" but Walt couldn't give a hoot.
You cannot deny Walt was very condescending with Jesse most of the time. And insulted him on a daily basis.

Walter tried to help him buckle down and focus on work. He tried to teach him to hone his skills and to not abuse drugs. He tried to save him from Jane and heroine which he had never tried before. (Jesse blames himself for Jane's death as well) He was worried sick about him over the Gus guys and the kid and went out and saved his life even though Gus may have killed him for it. He tried to teach Jesse Gus wasn't good for him. Gus/Mike taking Jesse under his wing was not a good thing for Jesse even if it seemed that way, it would have put Jesse into a life of crime he'd have never escaped from. He tried to let him back in so he could still earn. When he wanted out anyway, Walt didn't kill him, he gave him a ton of cash so he could have a good life. Even after Jesse could have screwed him over and Saul begged Walt to murder him, he just tried to send him away for a while to cover for his family. Walt only needed a few months til his cancer took him and what Jesse wanted to do, come back w/e wouldn't have mattered. And even after that he still really did only want to talk to him and work things out. He was the only person in that world that Walter never considered killing. Gus, Mike, Gale, Todd and countless others meant nothing to him.

Jesse developed a guilty conscience over what Todd did to that kid and tried to talk Walt out of the game altogether. This was the only time Jesse was a true friend to Walt. He was trying to remind Walt that this was (on Walt's end) about family. On Jesse's end it was never about anything but money. Both grew to where it became something more however. Walter was good at it and wanted to leave something behind he could say he did well and didn't give up on. Jesse grew a conscience and realized people are what mattered and became so conflicted about his blood money he couldn't live that way anymore. Unfortunately for him it was too late and because he stuck around the way he did, he caused a lot of people to die instead of just giving Walt a few months to pass from the cancer. Hank and Gomie, Jack and Todd's crew, Andrea. Walter tried to push him out of the life, he came back for revenge and it cost him almost everything.

 

[Collectorcol]

I like reading your posts in this thread Deckard.

 

[Lejuan]

A few show's that I never started from the beginning and was "highly recommended"

LOST - (SPOILER) Aside from the ending this was truly a great show
Sapranos – Great Show
Mad Men - Enjoyable
Walking dead – When People say You got to watch this…….You Do. Believe the hype.
Deadwood – The dialogue is fantastic. I can watch episodes over and over. Highly recommend subtitles or you have no idea WTF is going on!!
Breaking Bad – It's OK but hands down the MOST over rated / over hyped show. It was like I was waiting for the "punch line" to understand why everyone is raving about. It never came. With Breaking Bad I just did not get the hype. What did people see that I did not?

On a side note - I think one episode of dialogue in Breaking Bad is equal to one conversation between two people in Deadwood!!

I finally got round to watching season 1 of The Walking Dead, seeing as how so many people on here seem to wax on about it in such glowing terms.

One episode was enough for me to recognise that this is a serviceable show that is an entertaining enough watch - but nowhere near the same calibre as the top-tier shows. In terms of character development, performances, cinematography and script it doesn't hold a candle to Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Deadwood, Boardwalk Empire, Mad Men, House of Cards, Game of Thrones or The Wire. I'd even throw the Vikings in there. Going back a bit, there's Oz, 24 and The West Wing.

For me it's a solid show to watch in between seasons of the others. Seems to me fans of TWD are mostly digging it 'cause it's got zombies in it - but show me the awesome cinematography... is there a single standout performance? Can anyone remember any dialogue that is at all memorable? Mmmmnup...

 

[Lejuan]

I like reading your posts in this thread Deckard.

Great posts. The complexity of the characterisation alone, and the various motivations held by the players, is what makes Breaking Bad one of the all-time great shows.

 

[Collectorcol]

I watched the first season of WD and have no intention of ever watching again.
Really didn't care for any character and found the whole scenario rather lame.

 

[Lakhota]

I watched the first season of WD and have no intention of ever watching again.
Really didn't care for any character and found the whole scenario rather lame.

Yeah I agree, especially with the obscene violence, zombies and killing. To me it was just like a Movie Splatterhouse with typical generic characters . That is only my opinion if you like the show by all means watch it, Entertainment is different for everybody.