Cameron will only make AVATAR movies from here on out

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'll be completely honest. I didn't even go to see Avatar on the big screen when it came out. The worldbuilding didn't grab me, the concept seemed derivative and I just didn't care. All I remember is buying the game for my iPhone and playing it on some trip. I'll say this though; I am actually excited for these. I went back and watched it, and while it doesn't exactly hold up per se, it's something I can enjoy. Full disclosure I don't care for the story. I'm a human, I'll root for the humans, not the ******* xeno barbarian cats. I think Cameron needs the Gahd Emprah in his life, I think... But it is a new IP, it has the chance to do some interesting things, and I want to support that. It will be funny if it's the first real Post-Covid blockbuster and ends up being far more successful than it would've if it was released in 2015 or something. In an era where Sci-Fi is just cape**** and generic shooty-shooty clones, something with a lush, wondrous planet being its core would be refreshing. Who knows, I might even buy some dollies... But yeah, I'll watch them all and hope they're good. Maybe they'll come to define the 20s or something.

Funny, this kind of answers my question in The Batman thread.

 

[Victοr]

Funny, this kind of answers my question in The Batman thread.

Kinda, yeah. If they do come out, regardless of whether they're good or bad I do think they'll be at least as decade defining as the MCU was for the 10s. The question is whether they'll actually be memorable and explode into something more.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Kinda, yeah. If they do come out, regardless of whether they're good or bad I do think they'll be at least as decade defining as the MCU was for the 10s. The question is whether they'll actually be memorable and explode into something more.

I think these movies better introduce other species, besides the cats. Other planets, other alien species, and themes besides the whole nature/environmental theme. In real life Cameron is into environmental causes, so that clearly influenced Avatar, but he's also in to deep sea exploration, which also influenced his previous films, and he said something about a water world in the Avatar sequels. He's also into space exploration and he's a member of the Mars society and colonization of Mars. He said he's done a lot of research on the subject and that he wanted to used it on a film, novel, or series. Anyways, his movies don't stray away too far from his personal interest, so I see all those things influencing the Avatar sequels. I expect under water worlds, space exploration, other species, environmental stuff, and big battles involving all those elements. Some epic stuff that takes 4 films. I also expect him to rip off other films and shows like he did with Terminator and Avatar. Maybe he'll rip off LOTR along with some SW...or who knows, maybe something unexpected. Dances with Wolves wasn't an obvious choice, but it worked. Maybe he'll ripoff another Kevin Costner film, like the Postman.

 

[Victοr]

I think these movies better introduce other species, besides the cats. Other planets, other alien species, and themes besides the whole nature/environmental theme. In real life Cameron is into environmental causes, so that clearly influenced Avatar, but he's also in to deep sea exploration, which also influenced his previous films, and he said something about a water world in the Avatar sequels. He's also into space exploration and he's a member of the Mars society and colonization of Mars. He said he's done a lot of research on the subject and that he wanted to used it on a film, novel, or series. Anyways, his movies don't stray away too far from his personal interest, so I see all those things influencing the Avatar sequels. I expect under water worlds, space exploration, other species, environmental stuff, and big battles involving all those elements. Some epic stuff that takes 4 films. I also expect him to rip off other films and shows like he did with Terminator and Avatar. Maybe he'll rip off LOTR along with some SW...or who knows, maybe something unexpected. Dances with Wolves wasn't an obvious choice, but it worked. Maybe he'll ripoff another Kevin Costner film, like the Postman.

IIRC from some leaks and rumours and synopses, there's supposed to be another race. And they will go deep into the underwated world of Pandora. But I don't know if he'll take it further with other planets and whatnot. I don't mind the environmentalist message, but it always irks me when humans are the bad guys. I'm a human, **** if I'm going to side with some xeno. You don't have to show them getting massacred or something, but if we're at the point where we can't have a survivalist stance as a species in the space arena, then we're utterly ****ed if aliens do exist. I get "muh allegories", but with this logic both hypothetical aliens and proper AI would just **** us, and the worst thing is most would bend over due to this type of thinking. But that's another talk. For me, if he wants to make so many movies, he needs to go bigger and explore more stuff. And he probably will. At the end of the day, I'll be there for them for the simple fact that it's at least something relatively new and headed by a single man with a vision, not a committee focused simply on cash.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

IIRC from some leaks and rumours and synopses, there's supposed to be another race. And they will go deep into the underwated world of Pandora. But I don't know if he'll take it further with other planets and whatnot. I don't mind the environmentalist message, but it always irks me when humans are the bad guys. I'm a human, **** if I'm going to side with some xeno. You don't have to show them getting massacred or something, but if we're at the point where we can't have a survivalist stance as a species in the space arena, then we're utterly ****ed if aliens do exist. I get "muh allegories", but with this logic both hypothetical aliens and proper AI would just **** us, and the worst thing is most would bend over due to this type of thinking. But that's another talk. For me, if he wants to make so many movies, he needs to go bigger and explore more stuff. And he probably will. At the end of the day, I'll be there for them for the simple fact that it's at least something relatively new and headed by a single man with a vision, not a committee focused simply on cash.

I expect for the Avatar franchise, or at least the sequels to end with the humans and the cats fighting and working together, coexisting, like Planet of the Apes, which ironically predicted the world wide pandemic. The question is, will Cameron ripoff the 60's and 70's Planet of the Apes, or the new ones?

 

[Victοr]

I expect for the Avatar franchise, or at least the sequels to end with the humans and the cats fighting and working together, coexisting, like Planet of the Apes, which ironically predicted the world wide pandemic. The question is, will Cameron ripoff the 60's and 70's Planet of the Apes, or the new ones?

Well, at the very least we're going to get some beautiful digital locales, and at the end of the day, I think that's worth 3 hours of my time per film.

 

[The Buffinator]

It will be funny if it's the first real Post-Covid blockbuster and ends up being far more successful than it would've if it was released in 2015 or something. In an era where Sci-Fi is just cape**** and generic shooty-shooty clones, something with a lush, wondrous planet being its core would be refreshing. Who knows, I might even buy some dollies... But yeah, I'll watch them all and hope they're good. Maybe they'll come to define the 20s or something.

Due to all the China theaters in existence now I could see Avatar 2 being a blockbuster in terms of worldwide box office, but IMO it doesn't stand a chance of defining this decade, particularly here in the U.S.. It's more of a curiosity now than anything - as in what could possibly be in it that it took Cameron 13 years to release the damn thing?? In today's fast-paced world of entertainment Avatar is already viewed as a relic from the past, so these attempts to breath new life into it isn't going to define anything for this generation of moviegoers. The decade is more likely to be defined by movies we haven't even heard about yet.

 

[Khev]

Yeah some wolf movie made like a billion dollars in China alone a few years back and it didn't define anything for the rest of the world, lol.

 

[Victοr]

Due to all the China theaters in existence now I could see Avatar 2 being a blockbuster in terms of worldwide box office, but IMO it doesn't stand a chance of defining this decade, particularly here in the U.S.. It's more of a curiosity now than anything - as in what could possibly be in it that it took Cameron 13 years to release the damn thing?? In today's fast-paced world of entertainment Avatar is already viewed as a relic from the past, so these attempts to breath new life into it isn't going to define anything for this generation of moviegoers. The decade is more likely to be defined by movies we haven't even heard about yet.

That is a fair point, but if he does manage to put out all 4 of them in the 20s, and if the box office is there, they will have an impact, at least on some level. Looking back on the 10s you had the MCU beginning and ending, more or less, but I can't think of anything that defined the decade in any way. I'm not really talking about leaving a cultural mark in the real world, the market is too big to allow even a single thing to dominate like that. But even as just being a defining part of the pop culture of that era. The 00s had the first X-Men and Spider-Man Trilogies. They had LotR and the PT which added new life to Star Wars and brought it back to the mainstream. You had PotC as a completely new IP, and it can be argued that the Matrix was part of the decade too with Iron Man coming in to close it. Moreover you had Shrek, which completely changed the animated film industry forever. And that's just in film. In tv you had the Sopranos, LOST and Mad Men. In videogames you had Halo, God Of War, Gears Of War, Modern Warfare, Counter Strike and MGS. All of those things had a genuine impact on their respective fields.

I struggle to think of anything in the 10s that had the same weight. There was the MCU, there were more sequels, and we got the ST, but did all these things really leave anything behind? The MCU is a continuous thing. There hasn't been a videogame franchise spawned in that era that still echoes today. The ST didn't really do anything for the SW brand. Post-PT you had games coming out every year. Thus far we've had on Jedi game and some dissapointing Battlefront ones. Most big IPs keep going. But is there really anything that jumps out? I'd say Kony or Gangnam Style had more of an impact than any of the passing fads. The last thing that had any presence, and I would say ultimately dominated the 10s, would be GoT. Like you said, there's too much entertainment out there for anything at all to really have a lasting presence.

As for Avatar, I don't know. It is a new and overtly ambitious IP. People might get tired of the MCU until 2023, as they're fed mediocre shows and films about Z-Listers like Shang-Chi and the Eternals. A wondrous Cameron Sci-Fi franchise with top tier CGI and passion put into it might just be what they need. This is just my speculation talking, but if Avatar succeeds, I think Marvel will take notes and when they introduce the Mutants, they'll try to copy Pandora's lush environments and go with the Krakoa status quo instead of the classic one.

We'll see. But personally I'm looking forward to it. I can't get "hyped" anymore, but I am genuinely somewhat interested and that's more than I can say for most pop culture these days.

Yeah some wolf movie made like a billion dollars in China alone a few years back and it didn't define anything for the rest of the world, lol.

Wolf Warrior 2 was specifically political and nationalist propaganda. Literal "China Master Race" Tier.



China is its own market and beast. We're part of the West, so when I'm talking about impact I'm talking about our markets. I still think Avatar has a chance of making a splash, but we'll see.

 

[Wor-Gar]

As has been said, Cameron will need to open up his world into a universe to make 4 more movies interesting.

And he'll have to create a Big Bad that both humans and Navi can ultimately join forces against.

If the 10's have shown us anything its just how much division there is in the world. The 'revolution is coming' has been a quite rally cry for a very long time and it has escalated. A movie like this seems like a perfect venue -- especially with Cameron -- to explore two opposite sides ultimately coming together. There's racism, inequality, haves and have nots, Big Tech -- everything is built in to make an epic allegory. I'm betting that's what Cameron is aiming for.

 

[The Buffinator]

That is a fair point, but if he does manage to put out all 4 of them in the 20s, and if the box office is there, they will have an impact, at least on some level. Looking back on the 10s you had the MCU beginning and ending, more or less, but I can't think of anything that defined the decade in any way. I'm not really talking about leaving a cultural mark in the real world, the market is too big to allow even a single thing to dominate like that. But even as just being a defining part of the pop culture of that era.

As for Avatar, I don't know. It is a new and overtly ambitious IP. People might get tired of the MCU until 2023, as they're fed mediocre shows and films about Z-Listers like Shang-Chi and the Eternals. A wondrous Cameron Sci-Fi franchise with top tier CGI and passion put into it might just be what they need. This is just my speculation talking, but if Avatar succeeds, I think Marvel will take notes and when they introduce the Mutants, they'll try to copy Pandora's lush environments and go with the Krakoa status quo instead of the classic one.

With respect to the 10s I agree there wasn't a particular movie or franchise that left a significant & lasting cultural mark - I think the decade will be remembered more for what happened off-screen: (1) The push for more work opportunities in the industry for women & minorities as well as more equitable representation throughout, and (2) The advent of streaming platforms, which is now revolutionizing how we experience movies (& not necessarily for the better).

What leads you to conclude that Avatar, which dates back to 2009, is a new IP? Overtly ambitious is probably a fair description, but I can't wrap my head around the new part.

 

[Bo Shrek]

Didn't the first AVATAR come out in the 80's? Been so long.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

With respect to the 10s I agree there wasn't a particular movie or franchise that left a significant & lasting cultural mark - I think the decade will be remembered more for what happened off-screen: (1) The push for more work opportunities in the industry for women & minorities as well as more equitable representation throughout, and (2) The advent of streaming platforms, which is now revolutionizing how we experience movies (& not necessarily for the better).

What leads you to conclude that Avatar, which dates back to 2009, is a new IP? Overtly ambitious is probably a fair description, but I can't wrap my head around the new part.

Did you forget the MCU?

So many characters are household names because of it. My dad knows who Groot is and he knows Thanos...and his magic glove thingy. There's all kinds of people wearing MCU merchandise that never read a comic in their life.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Is the question over the period from 2010-2019 that there was no style in that decade... or no discernible film influences?

I mean, the decade was the MCU. Every summer's major blockbuster was an MCU film, sometimes multiple MCU films. All the stories culminated into the IW/EG finale at the end of the decade. Its a feat never before accomplished. It is an unfortunately narrow identity, but it is the decade's theatrical identity nonetheless.

As for style, the unfortunate dynasty of the skinny jeans for men lasted way too long.

 

[The Buffinator]

Did you forget the MCU?

So many characters are household names because of it. My dad knows who Groot is and he knows Thanos...and his magic glove thingy. There's all kinds of people wearing MCU merchandise that never read a comic in their life.

No I didn't forget but I was putting the MCU in the film STUDIO category, but even so I guess I should include The Avengers as a franchise that will stand the test of time. When Steve said "Avengers, Assemble!" in Endgame the whole MCU did respond.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

No I didn't forget but I was putting the MCU in the film STUDIO category, but even so I guess I should include The Avengers as a franchise that will stand the test of time. When Steve said "Avengers, Assemble!" in Endgame the whole MCU did respond. :lol

Yeah, I was ready to die with him.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The Clown Prince of Crime wants to be an Avenger. Such is the state of DC.

 

[Victοr]

With respect to the 10s I agree there wasn't a particular movie or franchise that left a significant & lasting cultural mark - I think the decade will be remembered more for what happened off-screen: (1) The push for more work opportunities in the industry for women & minorities as well as more equitable representation throughout, and (2) The advent of streaming platforms, which is now revolutionizing how we experience movies (& not necessarily for the better).

What leads you to conclude that Avatar, which dates back to 2009, is a new IP? Overtly ambitious is probably a fair description, but I can't wrap my head around the new part.

The 10s had more real world happenings, that's true. Whether good or bad is another talk. I was mostly approaching it all through a pop culture lens. The endpoint is that the 10s were defined not by a unifying theme or look, but by an influx of entertainment in all forms. So while you can look at something like the MCU or GoT, it's hard to say what exactly the 10s were as a whole.

As for Avatar, an IP launched around a decade ago is relatively new. I still think something such as Halo is a new franchise and that's turning 20 this year. In Avatar's case I mostly meant it as "fresh". Cameron placed a lot of importance on Pandora and its lush world, while pushing the aliens as the MCs. Most Sci-Fi doesn't have that hook, which is why audiences were going nuts for Pandora back in the day. I don't know if it'll do well, but it will be a competitor against the reigning MCU of the last 10+ years, and show whether audiences are ready for a change or if they're fine with their capes.

I hope it succeeds and it gives us Krakoa X-Men. I may not like everything about the HiX-Men, but the island is beautiful and has the potential to outshine Pandora.

Is the question over the period from 2010-2019 that there was no style in that decade... or no discernible film influences?

I mean, the decade was the MCU. Every summer's major blockbuster was an MCU film, sometimes multiple MCU films. All the stories culminated into the IW/EG finale at the end of the decade. Its a feat never before accomplished. It is an unfortunately narrow identity, but it is the decade's theatrical identity nonetheless.

As for style, the unfortunate dynasty of the skinny jeans for men lasted way too long.

Yeah I know, I mentioned the MCU. But my point is that there was the MCU, GoT and that was more or less it. There wasn't a defining aesthetic that bled through the entirety of the decade. There was a lot more "general noise". That's what I'm trying to get down to. Yes, the MCU changed pop culture and cinema entirely, no way around that. But what comes next? How are the 10s, as a decade, to be remembered?

I suppose at the end of the day the 10s would be the decade of the MCU and culmination of a decade of films leading up to IW/EG.

As has been said, Cameron will need to open up his world into a universe to make 4 more movies interesting.

And he'll have to create a Big Bad that both humans and Navi can ultimately join forces against.

If the 10's have shown us anything its just how much division there is in the world. The 'revolution is coming' has been a quite rally cry for a very long time and it has escalated. A movie like this seems like a perfect venue -- especially with Cameron -- to explore two opposite sides ultimately coming together. There's racism, inequality, haves and have nots, Big Tech -- everything is built in to make an epic allegory. I'm betting that's what Cameron is aiming for.

Those are pretty heavy topics for anyone to explore, and a talk that invites things outside this board's guidelines. The world's too... "complex" these days. There are no defined lines anymore. But he needs to at least make the humans the MCs, because at the end of the day I don't want to root for some spacecats and their magic trees, I want humanity to rule the stars.