Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[bboy]

Has anyone read the winter soldier book with Bucky and Widow standing back to back on the cover? This is sort of off topic but I'm pretty tempted to pick it up. Maybe get a little excited for Civil War

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

I'm pretty sure Bucky was brainwashed in the comics too. Or at least manipulated to think he his cause was just. I could be wrong. I don't think I ever read his first origins just more recent renditions.

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[moose]

But how does DC do it any more?

Even **i***** Cap died in this (I'm doubting that he does), everybody would just want him back for infinity wars. I would. You need Captain America for such an epic story. It should be all iconic hands on deck.

Now disney does love to throw in death scenes when the opportunity arises...but when you have these longterm plans with different characters or groups coming together eventually...it kind of dampens the possibilities for lasting character deaths.

We know RDJ and Evans are winding down contracts. I'd imagine conversations about how disney/marvel will move on from those actirs/characters will take place at those times. Why kill one if they are contracted for 3 more movies?

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It's true they can't kill of these main characters because of the sequels that are in the works and frankly the can never top the death of superman since that made such an impact at the time of publication I consider every comic death a cheap imitation of it.


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[GodzillaSpawn]

I hate comic deaths...it's such a gimmick. One reason I don't read many comics now. Each character just takes a turn in the meat grinder to sell more copies now.

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[moose]

its not so much killing characters like the main superheroes, but hawkeye could have died and it would have been a good death. Coulson could have stayed dead. And sam jacksons fakeout death had me rolling my eyes the second it happened. Its also things like Iron Man quitting being iron man then being iron man again the next summer. I'm sure they explained it but bleh.

Also how many times has someone been brainwashed and fought their friends? lmao. I'm sure it sounds like nitpicking but those are just some of the coomplaints I have. At least I know the action will look good, if not overly choreographed and cgi. As for being a huge fan of badass female spies its unbelievable how emotional black widow is even though "she was trained to be a monster"

They need to kill of the side kicks to up the stakes , Bucky and Rhodes they should be fair game since they are basically there to service the story.

Again DC has already done that with " A death in the family " story line. Yeah technically bucky " died " first but this Robin was were the attachment was made .

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[moose]

yeah that I can see being an issue. But they could have had the brainwashed thing a little more subtle. Not exactly strapped to a chair with a riddler thing brainwashing him. But maybe slowly being convinced by a bigger hitler like character, being lied to and what not. Idk I'm just making s*** up. Not only would it make bucky a bit cooler, but also made for a menacing villain who does it to bucky. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm surprised no one sh*** on the horrendous flashbacks in winter soldier, I found them pretty laughable.

alright after reading that post I see the similarities between that and BVS. But it's work better with bucky with all the time in between.

Sounds like you wanted the Red Hood story line from DC, which coincidently were published at the same time . Jason the Robin who was killed by joker returns to take revenge and prove to batman that he is his better.

No brain washing need it's a take on what if Batman went to far. As much as the like the action in WS the lack of an imposing villain be it in Alexander in Hydra or the Winter Solider himself one had the mind the other was the physical bit neither one alone was enough.

Man Nolan ruined it for me, because nothing can compete with the Joker maybe a close second Darth Vader.


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[moose]

Has anyone read the winter soldier book with Bucky and Widow standing back to back on the cover? This is sort of off topic but I'm pretty tempted to pick it up. Maybe get a little excited for Civil War

Yes it'd nice it's explores their relationship it's write by the same written who wrote the winter solider story line. I encourage you to pick that trade up and you can the basis for the story line it has the red skull and other r supporting characters.

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[bboy]

They need to kill of the side kicks to up the stakes , Bucky and Rhodes they should be fair game since they are basically their to service the story.

Again DC has already done that with " A death in the family " story line. Yeah technically bucky " died " first but this Robin was were the attachment was made .

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Yeah your right its very similar to a death in the family. But everybody knows batman and robin, close to nobody knows Capt and Bucky. Now if he were to die again I'm not sure how that would feel, I guess if done right it could be good. The general audience would be more shocked and excited to see a big reveal where its robin back from the dead. I'm not sure most people knew who Bucky was. But goddamn why not just kill off samual Jackson in winter soldier?

 

[bboy]

Yes it'd nice it's explores their relationship it's write by the same written who wrote the winter solider story line. I encourage you to pick that trade up and you can the basis for the story line it has the red skull and other r supporting characters.

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Ah thanks. Really like the cover art.

 

[moose]

Yeah your right its very similar to a death in the family. But everybody knows batman and robin, close to nobody knows Capt and Bucky. Now if he were to die again I'm not sure how that would feel, I guess if done right it could be good. The general audience would be more shocked and excited to see a big reveal where its robin back from the dead. I'm not sure most people knew who Bucky was. But goddamn why not just kill off samual Jackson in winter soldier?

It's the family friendly formula I guess plus they have plans for the character. If you have ever read civil war there is beautiful scene with iron man and at cap's side after he was killed were he crying admitting that the made a mistake and the price was to high it's beautiful I wish the they could capture a taste of that in this movie.

We are fans so we go but I am not sure if they public will come out for sequels of the other movies. I know marvel likes to make good movies , but can they ever make a great movie with out taking a creative chance a risk.

 

[bboy]

It's the family friendly formula I guess plus they have plans for the character. If you have ever read civil war there is beautiful scene with iron man and at cap's side after he was killed were he crying admitting that the made a mistake and the price was to high it's beautiful I wish the they could capture a taste of that in this movie.

We are fans so we go but I am not sure if they public will come out for sequels of the other movies. I know marvel likes to make good movies , but can they ever make a great movie with out taking a creative chance a risk.

yeah I do actually have the hardcover full collection. Its actually one of the first books I read when I was younger. I had no idea what I was getting into. I was a bit disappointed because it was when I was first hit with the fact the comic books have ongoing history and future and depth Of characters. I just felt so in over my head. But overall I've come to love it. No matter how much of a cash grab most people think it is, it ended up being a great story to enter this world. I got a good feel for the characters and motivations. I know the exact scene youre talking about. Theere was many scenes like that that really got to me. And then I saw the civil war trailer and thought there goes that. To tell the truth it looks very similar to AOU in terms of stake, plot and characters. I actually enjoyed AOU, but people started to complain about problems that were there from the beginning of the MCU starting with AOU for some reason.

 

[moose]

yeah I do actually have the hardcover full collection. Its actually one of the first books I read when I was younger. I had no idea what I was getting into. I was a bit disappointed because it was when I was first hit with the fact the comic books have ongoing history and future and depth Of characters. I just felt so in over my head. But overall I've come to love it. No matter how much of a cash grab most people think it is, it ended up being a great story to enter this world. I got a good feel for the characters and motivations. I know the exact scene youre talking about. Theere was many scenes like that that really got to me. And then I saw the civil war trailer and thought there goes that. To tell the truth it looks very similar to AOU in terms of stake, plot and characters. I actually enjoyed AOU, but people started to complain about problems that were there from the beginning of the MCU starting with AOU for some reason.

I think it started with AOU because that felt like a repeat of the Avengers it addition it had some shoe horned scenes designed to set up the sequels, I felt that it repeated a great deal of the previous movie but I assuming every super hero team up move will fall in that trap including justice League at least for part 2 since it might be a new experience for us in part 1 but a repeat of events for part 2.

In terms of this movie having read the comic and knowing that marvel comics are not afraid to go dark and gritty I would be fairly disappointed if I did I not get at least some kind of scene that moves me like this

And this

It would be such a shame of a great story to have it toned down it a way to rob it of its emotional core. That would be my main gripe with Marvel movies they more commercial then actual art.

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[GodzillaSpawn]

A death in the family was followed up famously by Red Hood...so that death lost its intended impact much like Superman. I get it--it's supposed to be Batman's greatest failure...but deaths in comics are always ret-conned by a cop out.

Except for maybe Nightcrawler--to my dismay.

Rhodes and Bucky are safe too. I would think that they'd be up when rbj and Chris Evans step away because they'd still be following the comics a bit. Falcon could become caps role I suppose. But regardless--I think the consensus is that these actors/characters are desired by the fans to not only face the ultimate doom bringer in Thanos but to also have them meet up with guardians of the galaxy (I feel like you need rbj and Evans for this moment) and to have cap and black panther develop such a strong bond and respect like in the comics.

Idk...I get both sides of the coin. But if they kill a character to elevate this moment, they will be depriving us from other great moments that could happen as inspired from the comics as more Panther, Dr Strange and Spider-Man are utilized.



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[bboy]

A death in the family was followed up famously by Red Hood...so that death lost its intended impact much like Superman. I get it--it's supposed to be Batman's greatest failure...but deaths in comics are always ret-conned by a cop out.

Except for maybe Nightcrawler--to my dismay.

Rhodes and Bucky are safe too. I would think that they'd be up when rbj and Chris Evans step away because they'd still be following the comics a bit. Falcon could become caps role I suppose. But regardless--I think the consensus is that these actors/characters are desired by the fans to not only face the ultimate doom bringer in Thanos but to also have them meet up with guardians of the galaxy (I feel like you need rbj and Evans for this moment) and to have cap and black panther develop such a strong bond and respect like in the comics.

Idk...I get both sides of the coin. But if they kill a character to elevate this moment, they will be depriving us from other great moments that could happen as inspired from the comics as more Panther, Dr Strange and Spider-Man are utilized.



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yeah, I think its important to know though that this isn't comic books, its movies. So time, in some sense, is moving much faster. So I say seize the day man, don't be afraid to kill off our beloved characters.We will never get to know these characters for as long as we did in comics. Of course there is reboots and what not but 2 hour films are a much different medium then reading 50 years worth of tiny issues of comic books.

 

[moose]

A death in the family was followed up famously by Red Hood...so that death lost its intended impact much like Superman. I get it--it's supposed to be Batman's greatest failure...but deaths in comics ste always ret-conned by a cop out.

Except for maybe Nightcrawler--to my dismay.

Rhodes and Bucky are safe too. I would think that they'd be up when rbj and Chris Evans step away because they'd still be following the comics a bit. Falcon could become caps role I suppose. But regardless--I think the consensus is that these actors/characters are



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Yeah they are followed up by the return superman and Robin, but at the time they were written it was a new thing.

I still love these images

Or this [url=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily/IMG]]A Death in the Family (Comic Book) - TV Tropes[/url]

I don't under stand why certain comic movie fans shy away from these story lines. Why does it have to be light hearted and colorful these classic story lines are what add depth to these characters it's what separates them from mere cartoons.

Something l love about the amazing spiderman 2 was this scene
[IMG] [url]https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/asm121-5.jpg[/url]
https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/asm121-1.jpg[/IMG]

Even the hated X men last stand the death of professor X and Jean grey gave that movie depth. I like it when this movie genre are not afraid to go to these places as they writers who were writing these stories were trying to break out of the traditional comic book story mold and in doing so gave us these classic story lines which are now good enough to be made in to billion dollar movies.

 

[Darkseed]

I hate comic deaths...it's such a gimmick. One reason I don't read many comics now. Each character just takes a turn in the meat grinder to sell more copies now.

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I stopped reading comics well before "big" deaths happened but I agree it's pointless. Rogers, Parker, Logan, Wayne, Kent all have perished only to eventually return which dilutes any emotional impact. No need to bring this ideology to the cinema but thanks to BvS, its already begun. Supes death in that had zero connectivity for me for other reasons but when you knew he was coming back before credits rolled, please. If Supes (or any character who passed) stayed dead then no worries add it to the universe. What is the point bringing them back. I suggest giving them lesser roles then switch out the actor as contracts expires then reintroduce them much like James Bond. Keeps character around with a different flavor....we've had multiple versions of Bats, Supes, Spidey, FF so the audience is conditioned to the formula.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

I agree...all powerful. Hell...the death of Gwen in the movie still puts me in a sad mood. I think it's the most perfect cinematic Spider-man moment so far.

But it has to be a tough spot for writers who are trying to make these films last through a certain vision. How to add more tragedy with a bunch of characters whom never stay dead in comics or are a bug part of what you are planning down the line.

Vision might be the first one to really bite it. I mean, he sort of has to.

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[bboy]

Yeah they are followed up by the return superman and Robin, but at the time they were written it was a new thing.

I still love these images

Or this [url=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily/IMG]]A Death in the Family (Comic Book) - TV Tropes[/url]

I don't under stand why certain comic movie fans shy away from these story lines. Why does it have to be light hearted and colorful these classic story lines are what add depth to these characters it's what separates them from mere cartoons.

Something l love about the amazing spiderman 2 was this scene
[IMG] [url]https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/asm121-5.jpg[/url]
https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/asm121-1.jpg[/IMG]

Even the hated X men last stand the death of professor X and Jean grey gave that movie depth. I like it when this movie genre are not afraid to go to these places as they writers who were writing these stories were trying to break out of the traditional comic book story mold and in doing so gave us these classic story lines which are now good enough to be made in to billion dollar movies.

yeah this ^ as much as they are terrible movies (I don't think x3 is as bad as people say) they are pretty risky and exciting scenes. People were shocked Emma Stone died.

 

[moose]

I stopped reading comics well before "big" deaths happened but I agree it's pointless. Rogers, Parker, Logan, Wayne, Kent all have perished only to eventually return which dilutes the emotional impact. No need to bring this ideology to the cinema but thanks to BvS, its already begun. Supes death in that had zero connectivity for me for other reasons but when you knew he was coming back before credits rolled, please. I suggest giving them lesser roles then switch out the actor as contracts expires then reintroduce them much like James Bond. Keeps character around with a different flavor....we've had multiple versions of Bats, Supes, Spidey, FF so the audience is conditioned to the formula.

Hum , if you look at it that way then yes they are gimmicks but at the time they were fresh and yes it was not a for gone conclusion that they would return.

It's kind of like we'll we know the hero is will win so why bother with the movie , cause it's the journey that memorable.

 

[moose]

yeah this ^ as much as they are terrible movies (I don't think x3 is as bad as people say) they are pretty risky and exciting scenes. People were shocked Emma Stone died.

Man I knew it was coming but the only thing I have seen of that is the comic panel above, when she hit the floor I literally gasped just because that had just an impact.

I just hope this movie has so form of emotional impact

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