Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[karamazov80]

Pretty sure they're setting up the MCU/X-Files crossover, where Black Widow has alien DNA.

 

[NYallDay]

^^^ Hahahah. My bad everyone. By the way, I have a great site you can rewatch it. Good quality but has subtitles


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[Victοr]

Well put, Darthkostis. That needed saying!


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Thanks man! I wasted an hour on that, somebody should take notice dangit! Where's my internet cookie?!

 

[chewblacca]

Here's your no prize!

 

[jamesn50mm]

Marvel always like to keep it's heroes virtuous, free of sin, they don't have a dark side and when they do a " bad decision" it's a result of outside manipulation Tony was manipulated to build Ultron by Wanda, him and Cap were manipulated to fight because of Zemo. Vision hits Rhodes by accident, they toned it down considerably from what it was in the comics. No back door deals with villians, no dirty fighting they basically had a playground school fight were in the comics it was a true civil war. Cap got his ass kicked and then in turn beat the cap out of tony. Not to mention the beautiful ending with caps death they tied everything up on a neat bow with a letter.

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It's been stated before, but if you go into any of these movies expecting the comic equivalent you're going to be disappointed. None of the films have followed the comic story lines from what I hear.

And do people expect any of these characters to die? Disney makes just as much if not more on the merchandise sales of these characters than they do on the films. I don't even expect anyone of any worth to die in infinity war either, financial it doesn't make sense.

Even with that mind set these films are still the gold standard in the genre and marvel keeps raising it's own bar.

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[daikkenaurora]

It's been stated before, but if you go into any of these movies expecting the comic equivalent you're going to be disappointed. None of the films have followed the comic story lines from what I hear.

And do people expect any of these characters to die? Disney makes just as much if not more on the merchandise sales of these characters than they do on the films. I don't even expect anyone of any worth to die in infinity war either, financial it doesn't make sense.

Even with that mind set these films are still the gold standard in the genre and marvel keeps raising it's own bar.

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I barely expect them to stay hurt for a long period of time.

Spoiler

Except WM now.

 

[karamazov80]

It's been stated before, but if you go into any of these movies expecting the comic equivalent you're going to be disappointed. None of the films have followed the comic story lines from what I hear.

Nor should they. We can seek out the source comics if we want to get stories from that angle. The key is getting the characters right, and putting them into appropriate situations where we can watch them do what they do the way they are supposed to do them.

 

[Destro]

Man, this just shows you did not read the comics you're "quoting". So, as a comic fan:

1) The entirety of the Civil War began from Nitro detonating due to the carelessness of the New Warriors. They were filming a TV-Show, they rushed in and they lost. Nitro detonated and killed about 600 people. I don't see the difference between the catalyst being a school, and the catalyst being an international incident.

2) The villains in question were already established super-villains that Tony had been amassing alongside Zemo over at Thunderbolts. At the time, they had over 100 imprissoned villains, and only used the deadliest. Meanwhile, behind closed doors, Zemo was creating his "own" Thunderbolts Army in order to win against the Grandmaster, an Elder of the Universe.

3) The Prison in the Negative Zone was Project #42 from Richards' 100 Ideas Initiative. They were basically 100 Ideas that Richards, Stark and Pym came up with Post-Stanford, in order to make the world a better place. But with all of them being kinda nuts, and Hank Pym being a Skrull in disguise, they went overboard. After the CW had ended, it was left abandoned, and Blastaar took over, which led to Jack Flag joining the GotG.

4) The casualties you speak of were Black Goliath, Jack O'Lantern and the Jester. The former was killed by Ragnarok, a Thor clone which was created since Thor was dead at the time, fullfilling the prophecy of Ragnarok. He went haywire and killed him. The Jester, Jack O'Lantern and 2 other Z-List villains were killed by the Punisher during his rescue of Spider-Man and inside Cap's hideout. So, yeah, the only "major" death, was equilavent of "the black guy dies first". Yay... Afterwards, Herc smashed his head in.

5) The fight you all love to say "that was a war!" was still not as brutal, because people were still not really rying to kill each other. All the fights took place in mostly evacuated areas, and the last one, which took place in the city, was halted by Cap as soon as he saw that they were simply fighting just for the hell of it. If they were bloodlusted, he'd have just let Cloak and his team drop the other to their deaths. Not to mention that the final scene with Cap looking as he was gonna kill Tony was straight from the page.

Here, Sue Storm is in the opposite side of Reed, but as soon as he gets hurt, she rushes to save her husband. So no, she's not "bloodlusted".

These are all the heroes and villains. Wow, they have Solo, the Shroud, Tigra, Nightawk, etc, etc... I'm sure all of them played a huge part in the comic. Oh, wiat, they didn't! The major characters were Cap, Tony, Vision and the like! Huh, I never would've guessed...

6) Wanna know why Tony was so adamant about the SHRA? Because he and some of his buddies formed a club called "The Illuminati", which was there to "govern all affairs". Black Panther refused to join them, and he was damn right. He stayed out of the conflict and only, in the end, aided Cap.

Here's a nice read-up on Reed, Hank and Tony: https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2015/01/04/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-so-why-did-reed-richards-support-the-superhuman-registration-act/

6.5) Still on the Illuminati, these boys went to the Skrull homeworld, wrecked **** up and warned them never to try and invade the Earth again. So, what do the Skrulls do? Abduct Pym, replace him and put him there as a sleeper. His job? Try and divide the Avengers from the inside, hence why "Hank" was so supportive of the SHRA. Thus, CW paved the way for Secret Invasion.

7) And here we come to the biggest "issue", Cap's Death. Newsflash: Cap didn't die in CW. He died in Fallen Son. Cap didn't die because of the events of Civil War, he died because of the Red Skull and Faustus. That info aside, plans for Cap's death were already in stone, as Brubaker wanted to write Bucky-Cap. CW was just the perfect time. And besides, Cap didn't "die", he got stuck in a space-bullet. The whole deal involved Lukin, Red Skull, Faustus and even Burnside.

So yeah, here's your precious source material. To translate Civil War correctly, you need:

1) The New Warriors (Nitro can just be a minor, newly introduced villain)
2) The F4 and Negative Zone
3) The Illuminati and the Skrulls
4) Red Skull, Faustus, Doom and the Osborn administration
5) Zemo, his Moonstones and his amry, plus the Elders of the Universe
6) Ragnarok, the event and the clone
7) More minor, D-List characters

Wait, you mean these things don't exist in the MCU? Well, I never would have guessed. But here's my view:

-Stanford = Lagos
-New Warriors = Wanda
-Nitro = Crossbones
-Prison 42 = Raft
-Red Skull/Faustus/Skrulls/outside force which made the war inevitable = Zemo
-Villains = Spider-Man (person/people brought over to turn the tide)

It's not a perfect adaptation you say? Of course it's bloody noy, cause otherwise you'd need 20 damn years of the MCU an God knows how many damn movies. Now, you'll say "they could keep some stuff", which would then bring us to "they're changing stuff". Honest truth? The movie is damn faithful to the comic.

There. You know how sick and ****ing tired I am of "comic book purists" saying they didn't follow the source material, pretending that just remembering Cap on the stairs counts? Here's your gosh-darn source material. You want that? You want all this convulted storyline with branches everywhere? Be my guest. But do not tell me that there's no "resemblance" to the comic.

Just admit that you wanted Cap to die. Well, tough luck, the protagonists never die, be it comics or movies. Guess we should campaign for Batman to die in JL ala Final Crisis and have him return through time as Batman-Pirate, Batman-Cabeman and Batman-Knight... Either, boom, here are your scans, here's your source material, here's everything!

 

[jnmx2000]

I barely expect them to stay hurt for a long period of time.

Spoiler

Except WM now.

Yea that kind of bums me out as I feel like he's barely been given his due in the MCU. I do expect him to be back though, the ending I feel like was hinting at it a bit.

Spoiler

I think the war machine armor will become a part of Rhodes or his legs will be augmented with a set of medical grade iron man legs or something

The only person I see dying in Infinity War are Vision in part 1 and probably Bucky in part 2 which will complete his atonement for the wrongs he's done, which would allow Tony to find forgiveness and band together with Cap to stop thanos. That to me seems like the most interesting way to approach the future of this team. I don't expect any of the main characters to die.

 

[moose]

Nor should they. We can seek out the source comics if we want to get stories from that angle. The key is getting the characters right, and putting them into appropriate situations where we can watch them do what they do the way they are supposed to do them.

I understand they are adaptations , but they rob the story of its meat when we take aways these elements and I know they do it for financial reasons it's just my expectations were not in line with the end product after all it is a Disney movie so they will always be only able to take it so far.

I used to think that the more characters the better but I am beginning to doubt that since they are mostly there for actions scenes and nothing more.


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[jye4ever]

Nor should they. We can seek out the source comics if we want to get stories from that angle. The key is getting the characters right, and putting them into appropriate situations where we can watch them do what they do the way they are supposed to do them.

Then you must love the Cap trilogy.

 

[Destro]

Thanks man! I wasted an hour on that, somebody should take notice dangit! Where's my internet cookie?!

 

[SoGS]

darthkostis



I'd rep you if I could!

Hope that informs all the people who believe the movie should've closely adhered to the comic event that there's no way to fit that into 1 movie. The "Captain America should've died like in the comic" argument is so cringe-worthy to read. It just shows what happens when an image is taken out of context. Great image, but the CW did not kill Captain America!

 

[daikkenaurora]

Yea that kind of bums me out as I feel like he's barely been given his due in the MCU. I do expect him to be back though, the ending I feel like was hinting at it a bit.

Spoiler

I think the war machine armor will become a part of Rhodes or his legs will be augmented with a set of medical grade iron man legs or something

The only person I see dying in Infinity War are Vision in part 1 and probably Bucky in part 2 which will complete his atonement for the wrongs he's done, which would allow Tony to find forgiveness and band together with Cap to stop thanos. That to me seems like the most interesting way to approach the future of this team. I don't expect any of the main characters to die.

He might become a workaholic and rarely take off the suit. He seemed fine at the end of the movie but it will affect his mind later on.

 

[karamazov80]

Then you must love the Cap trilogy.

Apart from the fact that First Avenger is a pretty averagely made movie, yes. MCU has gotten Cap totally right. And since he is really their marquee character (profits from Iron Man films to the side), that is pretty damn important.

 

[Victοr]

Here's your no prize!

Thanks!

View attachment 263412

Eh, where's its "meat"? This cookie is half-baked, it's not a really good adaptation of the recipe bro. Git gud.

I understand they are adaptations , but they rob the story of its meat when we take aways these elements and I know they do it for financial reasons it's just my expectations were not in line with the end product after all it is a Disney movie so they will always be only able to take it so far.

I used to think that the more characters the better but I am beginning to doubt that since they are mostly there for actions scenes and nothing more.


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So, you're just gonna ignore everything I posted and keep riding your horse singing "tralalalala" ? You've got the scans. You've got the articles. You've got the links. You've got the stories. But nah, sure, they "robbed the story of its meat"... Give me a break...

 

[Victοr]

darthkostis



I'd rep you if I could!

Hope that informs all the people who believe the movie should've closely adhered to the comic event that there's no way to fit that into 1 movie. The "Captain America should've died like in the comic" argument is so cringe-worthy to read. It just shows what happens when an image is taken out of context. Great image, but the CW did not kill Captain America!

 

[Entropy]

Thanks for taking the time to drop the knowledge, darthkostis.
One of the best posts/rants I've read in awhile here.

 

[moose]

Thanks!

Eh, where's its "meat"? This cookie is half-baked, it's not a really good adaptation of the recipe bro. Git gud.



So, you're just gonna ingore everything I posted and keep riding your horse singing "tralalalala" ? You've got the scans. You've got the articles. You've got the links. You've got the stories. But nah, sure, they "robbed the story of its meat"... Give me a break...

What are you taking about , the comic went to a lot of places this movie was not willing to do for the sake of making it family friendly , it does not need to be an exact adaption yet I was looking for the same level of brutally and truth that people make hard choices without having to be manipulated in to making decisions. Playing dirty , back door deals that question a person's morals all that was missing instead of some outside source that was manipulating them in to making this.

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[jnmx2000]

Then you must love the Cap trilogy.

Am I the only one who can't call any of the Marvel films a trilogy lol I personally will never consider Cap or Iron Man a trilogy. They are anthologies though, they tie way to much into the Avengers films to think of their solo films independent from the Avengers films. Tony Stark in Iron Man 3 is a result of the Avengers, Civil War is a result from the two avengers films. I would actually like hear from someone that watched the three Cap movies without watching any other Marvel film. I feel like you would be pretty lost with the conflicts at hand lol