Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[EVILFACE]

Part of me still wanted to see Cap

Spoiler

killed off

Dude is gonna

Spoiler

die a virgin

Infinity War.....

 

[chewblacca]

It's a comic book movie. Characters rarely stay dead. Most deaths are just a publicity stunt or done for shock value until a new story requires them to be brought back, like Bucky and Jason Todd.

 

[IrishJedi]

It's a comic book movie. Characters rarely stay dead. Most deaths are just a publicity stunt or done for shock value until a new story requires them to be brought back, like Bucky and Jason Todd.

That's all well and good. But when they bring them back within the same movie (i.e. Nick Fury in TWS) in really removes some of the stakes.

 

[daikkenaurora]

It's a comic book movie. Characters rarely stay dead. Most deaths are just a publicity stunt or done for shock value until a new story requires them to be brought back, like Bucky and Jason Todd.

Just because it happens in the comics, doesnt mean it needs to carry over into the movies.

 

[chewblacca]

That's all well and good. But when they bring them back within the same movie (i.e. Nick Fury in TWS) in really removes some of the stakes.

What, you didn't see that coming?

 

[karamazov80]

Stakes do seem relatively low for the heroes. But that's the case everywhere--Phoenix dies, gets resurrected. Superman dies, gets resurrected. I bet Snyder is just frothing at the mouth thinking of a way to introduce and really kill off Ted Kord, though. Since he is the best thing in the entire history of DC comics

If Infinity War plays out as Infinity Guantlet in the comics. . .

Spoiler

then no one will die at all at the end, since the last action taken by Nebula is to undue all that Thanos did to that point.

But I'm thinking they really should change that story line up, so that there are real consequences. But with all the world and universe-threatening threats faced so far in this "universe," how do you make someone even seem like a huge step up from the guy in Thor 2, or Ronan, or Loki, etc.?

That's all well and good. But when they bring them back within the same movie (i.e. Nick Fury in TWS) in really removes some of the stakes.

The stakes are out the window if they get revived at all, IMO. Not just when it happens in the same movie. Like with comics, Cap dies, then gets brought back a few months later. Superman dies, gets brought back a year later. But it was always part of the plan. And now that Bucky was brought back, really nothing is off limits anymore. Uncle Ben has probably been revived at this point

 

[jye4ever]

Fixed that.

Seriously, though... Will Marvel have the cajones to kill off any characters (besides Pietro) again? I still can't forgive AoS for bringing back Coulson and robbing THE AVENGERS of its emotional punch.

Especially WM.

Don't forget BW getting shot in TWS then right back to doing her flips a few seconds later.

 

[filip629]

Saw this Friday night with the family. I liked it but thought TWS was a better movie overall. Still a good movie though and I would certainly recommend it to anyone who would be interested in seeing it. Bats vs Supes is still my favorite CBM movie of this year so far. Looking forward to X-MEN:Apocalypse and Suicide Squad next.

 

[EVILFACE]

If Infinity War plays out as Infinity Guantlet in the comics. . .

I've never read that series, but aren't all of Thanos kills restored? If so, right up MCU's alley.

 

[chewblacca]

Batman got shot in the head twice in BvS, and gets stabbed. But he jogs it off. Cap did take some serious falls in CW and walks it off too. These are more than just plain men and women we are dealing with here.

 

[Victοr]

Marvel always like to keep it's heroes virtuous, free of sin, they don't have a dark side and when they do a " bad decision" it's a result of outside manipulation Tony was manipulated to build Ultron by Wanda, him and Cap were manipulated to fight because of Zemo. Vision hits Rhodes by accident, they toned it down considerably from what it was in the comics. No back door deals with villians, no dirty fighting they basically had a playground school fight were in the comics it was a true civil war. Cap got his ass kicked and then in turn beat the cap out of tony. Not to mention the beautiful ending with caps death they tied everything up on a neat bow with a letter.

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Man, this just shows you did not read the comics you're "quoting". So, as a comic fan:

1) The entirety of the Civil War began from Nitro detonating due to the carelessness of the New Warriors. They were filming a TV-Show, they rushed in and they lost. Nitro detonated and killed about 600 people. I don't see the difference between the catalyst being a school, and the catalyst being an international incident.

2) The villains in question were already established super-villains that Tony had been amassing alongside Zemo over at Thunderbolts. At the time, they had over 100 imprissoned villains, and only used the deadliest. Meanwhile, behind closed doors, Zemo was creating his "own" Thunderbolts Army in order to win against the Grandmaster, an Elder of the Universe.

3) The Prison in the Negative Zone was Project #42 from Richards' 100 Ideas Initiative. They were basically 100 Ideas that Richards, Stark and Pym came up with Post-Stanford, in order to make the world a better place. But with all of them being kinda nuts, and Hank Pym being a Skrull in disguise, they went overboard. After the CW had ended, it was left abandoned, and Blastaar took over, which led to Jack Flag joining the GotG.

4) The casualties you speak of were Black Goliath, Jack O'Lantern and the Jester. The former was killed by Ragnarok, a Thor clone which was created since Thor was dead at the time, fullfilling the prophecy of Ragnarok. He went haywire and killed him. The Jester, Jack O'Lantern and 2 other Z-List villains were killed by the Punisher during his rescue of Spider-Man and inside Cap's hideout. So, yeah, the only "major" death, was equilavent of "the black guy dies first". Yay... Afterwards, Herc smashed his head in.

5) The fight you all love to say "that was a war!" was still not as brutal, because people were still not really rying to kill each other. All the fights took place in mostly evacuated areas, and the last one, which took place in the city, was halted by Cap as soon as he saw that they were simply fighting just for the hell of it. If they were bloodlusted, he'd have just let Cloak and his team drop the other to their deaths. Not to mention that the final scene with Cap looking as he was gonna kill Tony was straight from the page.

Here, Sue Storm is in the opposite side of Reed, but as soon as he gets hurt, she rushes to save her husband. So no, she's not "bloodlusted".

These are all the heroes and villains. Wow, they have Solo, the Shroud, Tigra, Nightawk, etc, etc... I'm sure all of them played a huge part in the comic. Oh, wiat, they didn't! The major characters were Cap, Tony, Vision and the like! Huh, I never would've guessed...

6) Wanna know why Tony was so adamant about the SHRA? Because he and some of his buddies formed a club called "The Illuminati", which was there to "govern all affairs". Black Panther refused to join them, and he was damn right. He stayed out of the conflict and only, in the end, aided Cap.

Here's a nice read-up on Reed, Hank and Tony: https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2015/01/04/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-so-why-did-reed-richards-support-the-superhuman-registration-act/

6.5) Still on the Illuminati, these boys went to the Skrull homeworld, wrecked **** up and warned them never to try and invade the Earth again. So, what do the Skrulls do? Abduct Pym, replace him and put him there as a sleeper. His job? Try and divide the Avengers from the inside, hence why "Hank" was so supportive of the SHRA. Thus, CW paved the way for Secret Invasion.

7) And here we come to the biggest "issue", Cap's Death. Newsflash: Cap didn't die in CW. He died in Fallen Son. Cap didn't die because of the events of Civil War, he died because of the Red Skull and Faustus. That info aside, plans for Cap's death were already in stone, as Brubaker wanted to write Bucky-Cap. CW was just the perfect time. And besides, Cap didn't "die", he got stuck in a space-bullet. The whole deal involved Lukin, Red Skull, Faustus and even Burnside.

So yeah, here's your precious source material. To translate Civil War correctly, you need:

1) The New Warriors (Nitro can just be a minor, newly introduced villain)
2) The F4 and Negative Zone
3) The Illuminati and the Skrulls
4) Red Skull, Faustus, Doom and the Osborn administration
5) Zemo, his Moonstones and his amry, plus the Elders of the Universe
6) Ragnarok, the event and the clone
7) More minor, D-List characters

Wait, you mean these things don't exist in the MCU? Well, I never would have guessed. But here's my view:

-Stanford = Lagos
-New Warriors = Wanda
-Nitro = Crossbones
-Prison 42 = Raft
-Red Skull/Faustus/Skrulls/outside force which made the war inevitable = Zemo
-Villains = Spider-Man (person/people brought over to turn the tide)

It's not a perfect adaptation you say? Of course it's bloody noy, cause otherwise you'd need 20 damn years of the MCU an God knows how many damn movies. Now, you'll say "they could keep some stuff", which would then bring us to "they're changing stuff". Honest truth? The movie is damn faithful to the comic.

There. You know how sick and ****ing tired I am of "comic book purists" saying they didn't follow the source material, pretending that just remembering Cap on the stairs counts? Here's your gosh-darn source material. You want that? You want all this convulted storyline with branches everywhere? Be my guest. But do not tell me that there's no "resemblance" to the comic.

Just admit that you wanted Cap to die. Well, tough luck, the protagonists never die, be it comics or movies. Guess we should campaign for Batman to die in JL ala Final Crisis and have him return through time as Batman-Pirate, Batman-Cabeman and Batman-Knight... Either, boom, here are your scans, here's your source material, here's everything!

 

[karamazov80]

I've never read that series, but aren't all of Thanos kills restored? If so, right up MCU's alley.

Well, I was writing about that in my spoiler tag, but. . .

Spoiler

Not only are all the killed revived, but every action he took is reversed (like disfiguring Nebula), and only a small handful of folks even remember what happened when it was all over.

But DC has its own way of handling that, and getting out of any pesky decision in the past they don't want to stick with (see Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Final Crisis, Nu-52).

 

[jye4ever]

Hey, we want it just like the comics.

Best Superman movie had Superman revive Lois.

That's why I don't hold that against these movies, I just enjoy the spectacle of seeing these characters we hold dear to our hearts brought to life.

But Cap has been handled with much more respect than Cyclops that's for certain (Clown will edit my post to say Superman ).

 

[jye4ever]

Batman got shot in the head twice in BvS, and gets stabbed. But he jogs it off. Cap did take some serious falls in CW and walks it off too. These are more than just plain men and women we are dealing with here.

But so far MCU BW is just a highly skilled post brainwashed human, no super soldier serum revealed as of yet.

 

[chewblacca]

That will probably come out in her solo film.

 

[NYallDay]

But so far MCU BW is just a highly skilled post brainwashed human, no super soldier serum revealed as of yet.

Didn't they say something about her DNA in civil war? I semi recollect that they did lol

 

[jye4ever]

You smoking hashish bro?

 

[NYallDay]

You smoking hashish bro?

Me lol? My bad I thought they did ... And yes

 

[daikkenaurora]

Didn't they say something about her DNA in civil war? I semi recollect that they did lol

I dont remember them saying that at all. But I could have missed it.

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

Well put, Darthkostis. That needed saying!


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