Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Garbage like "Ultimate cut BvS" and "Civil War: whatever the hell edition"? Meh, wanna watch them? Just download em'. Nothing special.

The last film I bought was TDK. I would buy a trilogy box set if WB would release all the making of footage, interviews, all Ledger related behind the scenes material, and deleted scenes from all three films including the Bane origin.

 

[GasparZizou]

- Five years in iso-cubes!

I thought you were patrician about that, Riddick, very disappointed uwu

 

[Khev]

While I completely disagree with Khev on TDK being boring, the Nolan trilogy isn't as re-watchable to me as the Cap trilogy, although I wouldn't watch either in one sitting.

I said the first hour was boring, not the entire film. The overall film is great if you have the patience to plod through the first portion of it.

As for the complaints about the movies not matching the comics they're titled after (Civil War and Age of Ultron), it doesn't bother me only in the sense that i didn't care for the comics they were named after but they could have easily been titled something else. Divided We Fall would've been a great title for Civil War IMO.

People who complain just don't know their comics. CW was a mashup of several comic storylines, from the Bloodstone Hunt to Cap No More with a little bit of the comic Civil War as premise. It probably followed Gruenwald's Cap No More story the most where Cap just had a handful of supporters; namely Falcon, Nomad and D-Man with T'Challa making him a new shield after he turned the classic one in to the government and refused another made by Stark. Obviously they could have picked any appropriate title but Civil War probably was deemed "close enough" and probably allowed Marvel to sell a fair amount of trades still sitting on store shelves.

I got suckered in to purchasing said trade and after reading it promptly turned it over to a used book store. It sucked. NOT adhering to that particularly storyline was definitely the right call.

 

[Khev]

I need to edit my statement to say: "Trust me, Khev, a-dev and I are 100% right on this one and you're all just wrong lol."

I loved that the last shot of Cap (pre-credits) was him stepping into frame on the Raft, strong, smiling and confident to the delight of his incarcerated friends. A great counterpoint to his first scene in the trilogy, also in civilian clothes, weak, apprehensive, and rejected at the enlistment counter by the government he wanted to assist. He was never the serum, or the suit, he was always just Steve, the guy who walks head on into adversity no matter what.

I love how introspective Evans played him and that both Johnston and the Russos ran with it. Him silently standing on the bridge before the big fight in TWS, reflecting on Bucky's support after his mother's funeral. Then when he stands silently in the church after Peggy's funeral you just know he's playing moments with her back in his mind. Same when T'Challa approaches him in Wakanda. The Russos don't show us but we are left to assume he's reflecting on his relationship with Tony, or possibly Bucky or even Black Widow or any number of things.

He's also shown to be a "people" person in every film of the trilogy. In TWS when Sam shows him and Widow his "resume" Widow immediately keys into the danger of his mission and the fancy pack he wore while Steve only sees Sam's dead wingman and first asks "This is Riley?" Totally ignoring Widow's tactical commentary.

 

[Khev]

Nah, I feel that their conflict (war) had the appropriate depth to show how heroic people handle their internal ideological differences while being subjected to additional external forces.

Would they really just immediately murder each other over the accords without at the very least attempting to present their cases to each other?

I loved that Stark was happy to see Cap almost signing during the pen scene until Cap became irritated with how Wanda was being treated like a criminal while already being depressed for causing the explosion. Stark was very open to Cap signing with consessions being made, Stark was glowing happy as in yes please please sign. Stark was no friend of Ross afterall. That's one of my favorite scenes in the movie, Stark was just so happy to end his conflict with Cap but then boom, Wanda's treatment pissed off Cap even more!

I think that the gradual increase in tensions was the correct method especially since we haven't seen the end results yet, the murder of Stark's parents was the catalyst needed to ignite the tensions further along and now that they addressed that i'm sure that there will be additional conflicts along the way until they finally come together for Thanos, if they even do come together.

Stark could remain a stubborn bastard.

Trust me, Khev and I are 100% right on this one and you're all just wrong lol.

Yes, it was actually pretty powerful how much you see the teammates pleading with each other with not only their words but just their eyes. They seem on the verge of coming together multiple times yet circumstances and ideologies just drive them apart. Surprisingly poignant for what is essentially a straight action film.

I like that the airport battle also showed how valuable Cap was as a tactical leader and battlefield commander. Tony's group kept asking each other what to do and BP just did his own thing the whole time whereas Cap's team acted like a well oiled machine even after having only a few minutes to plan. Tony kind of trusted everyone to do their own thing and it showed.

 

[RIDDICK]

I thought you were patrician about that

I am, but only when it comes to the very cheap gimmicky 3D.
It can be a great tool if used properly, hence the Dredd quote.
Don't judge the whole thing just because most of it is garbage.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

I said the first hour was boring, not the entire film. The overall film is great if you have the patience to plod through the first portion of it.



People who complain just don't know their comics. CW was a mashup of several comic storylines, from the Bloodstone Hunt to Cap No More with a little bit of the comic Civil War as premise. It probably followed Gruenwald's Cap No More story the most where Cap just had a handful of supporters; namely Falcon, Nomad and D-Man with T'Challa making him a new shield after he turned the classic one in to the government and refused another made by Stark. Obviously they could have picked any appropriate title but Civil War probably was deemed "close enough" and probably allowed Marvel to sell a fair amount of trades still sitting on store shelves.

I got suckered in to purchasing said trade and after reading it promptly turned it over to a used book store. It sucked. NOT adhering to that particularly storyline was definitely the right call.

I don't think any of TDK is boring, so we completely disagree.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Marvel is trying to sell trades with these titles and get the readers of the comics excited as well.

I loved that the last shot of Cap (pre-credits) was him stepping into frame on the Raft, strong, smiling and confident to the delight of his incarcerated friends. A great counterpoint to his first scene in the trilogy, also in civilian clothes, weak, apprehensive, and rejected at the enlistment counter by the government he wanted to assist. He was never the serum, or the suit, he was always just Steve, the guy who walks head on into adversity no matter what.

I love how introspective Evans played him and that both Johnston and the Russos ran with it. Him silently standing on the bridge before the big fight in TWS, reflecting on Bucky's support after his mother's funeral. Then when he stands silently in the church after Peggy's funeral you just know he's playing moments with her back in his mind. Same when T'Challa approaches him in Wakanda. The Russos don't show us but we are left to assume he's reflecting on his relationship with Tony, or possibly Bucky or even Black Widow or any number of things.

He's also shown to be a "people" person in every film of the trilogy. In TWS when Sam shows him and Widow his "resume" Widow immediately keys into the danger of his mission and the fancy pack he wore while Steve only sees Sam's dead wingman and first asks "This is Riley?" Totally ignoring Widow's tactical commentary.

Evans as Cap is definitely the new Reeve Superman. He just owns the role and has defined it for a generation. I would've been just as satisfied with Avengers 1 ending on Nick Fury's dialogue to the council narrating that montage and stopping with Cap riding off on his Harley.

Another thing that I love about the Marvel movies is they way they end the credits with "such and such character will return", kind of taking the torch from the Superman end credits.

 

[morphosis]

I like the Cap movies, but to me its not even close to TDK Trilogy. Not even in the same sentence. Winter Soldier for me is the best of all the Marvel films, but still, not even close to BB, TDK, or TDKR in my opinion.

And I didn't really like Civil War that much. Thats why I can't put it near TDK Trilogy. Plus there will be more Cap Films, so its not really even going to be a true Trilogy like TDK. I thought the comic book Civil War was much better and it really wasn't that great of a comic. so to me:

ANH/EBS/ROTJ
BB/TDK/TDKR
.
.
.
.
.
.
everything else

 

[jye4ever]

Yes, it was actually pretty powerful how much you see the teammates pleading with each other with not only their words but just their eyes. They seem on the verge of coming together multiple times yet circumstances and ideologies just drive them apart. Surprisingly poignant for what is essentially a straight action film.

I like that the airport battle also showed how valuable Cap was as a tactical leader and battlefield commander. Tony's group kept asking each other what to do and BP just did his own thing the whole time whereas Cap's team acted like a well oiled machine even after having only a few minutes to plan. Tony kind of trusted everyone to do their own thing and it showed.

I don't think any of TDK is boring, so we completely disagree.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Marvel is trying to sell trades with these titles and get the readers of the comics excited as well.


Evans as Cap is definitely the new Reeve Superman. He just owns the role and has defined it for a generation. I would've been just as satisfied with Avengers 1 ending on Nick Fury's dialogue to the council narrating that montage and stopping with Cap riding off on his Harley.

Another thing that I love about the Marvel movies is they way they end the credits with "such and such character will return", kind of taking the torch from the Superman end credits.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I like the Cap movies, but to me its not even close to TDK Trilogy. Not even in the same sentence. Winter Soldier for me is the best of all the Marvel films, but still, not even close to BB, TDK, or TDKR in my opinion.

And I didn't really like Civil War that much. Thats why I can't put it near TDK Trilogy. Plus there will be more Cap Films, so its not really even going to be a true Trilogy like TDK. I thought the comic book Civil War was much better and it really wasn't that great of a comic. so to me:

ANH/EBS/ROTJ
BB/TDK/TDKR
.
.
.
.
.
.
everything else

That's close to my ranking.

BB/TDK/TDKR
.
.
.
.
.
.
Breathing
.
.
.
.
.
.
Pugs
.
.
.

World Peace
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
everything else

 

[Projekt]

If anyone has a spare Best Buy steel book for sale please pm me! Thank you in advance!

 

[GasparZizou]

I like Cap's trilogy, but only TWS has an underlying theme that's relevant outside the realm of comicbooks (and it's very good), the other 2 are just good comicbook movies.

TDKR might not be perfect (about as structurally solid as CW, or even more), but at least it's about something besides funny books stuff, and so are Begins and obviously TDK, which is why I have to respect it more than Cap's trilogy.

I'd rather have the airport fight scene as background noise than any of Nolan's trilogy action scenes though, but that hardly makes it better.

I am, but only when it comes to the very cheap gimmicky 3D.
It can be a great tool if used properly, hence the Dredd quote.
Don't judge the whole thing just because most of it is garbage.

It's just my personal taste, 3D has never not ruined my experience and it doesn't contribute anything to movies.

 

[Khev]

Nolan Batmovies 1 and 2 are great, but 3 is mediocre. As a trilogy I might agree that Cap wins.

Definitely didn't see that coming.

there will be more Cap Films, so its not really even going to be a true Trilogy like TDK.

so to me:

ANH/EBS/ROTJ
BB/TDK/TDKR

So three Cap films don't count as a trilogy but seven Star Wars films does?

I'd rather have the airport fight scene as background noise than any of Nolan's trilogy action scenes though

One nice thing about the Russos is that they don't go the Bourne/Nolan route with patty-cake fights done entirely in jittery close-ups. Lots of medium shot action in the Cap films. With both the Batroc and Crossbones duels you'd get nice full body or waist shots allowing you to clearly follow the moves of each combatant while keeping track of where they were with regard to their surroundings. Sure you'd get some close-ups here and there but only to accentuate the action, not to hide dodgy choreography or martial arts.

I did notice that the shaky cam kind of stuck out in TWS especially watching it back to back with the other two. After two hours of steadicam in TFA it was a bit jarring to see Steve and Sam chatting about Marvin Gaye at the beginning of TWS while the camera was flailing about like someone with Parkinson's was filming them during an earthquake. They really toned it down in CW.

 

[jye4ever]

T TGod I love the fluctuating grey and blue shading and textures on his helmet during this scene with his blacked out eyes and dark shadows.

Not only does it serve as a call back to some of those Ultimates panels but it also serves as a visual illustration of his internal moral tug of war conflicts and struggles being brought up to the surface as he rides an elevator down deeper into conflict and hidden memories of his friend Bucky and Stark.



Geez man, after my home viewing I was blown away by the end conflict even more than from my multiple theatrical viewings. When Bucky says to Steve "I don't know if i'm worth all this" or him owning his actions with "I still did it" and "I remember all their faces".

Powerful stuff.

I'm also now ready to proclaim after my 3D viewing that the airport battle is now hands down my favorite cinematc comic book moment, ever!

I choose it over seeing Reeve flying for the first time, Keaton in costume, 89 Batmobile and Batwing, Nicholson Joker, Elfman score, anything from Raimi Spiderman 2, anything from BB, Ledger Joker, Avengers assembling for the first time, TWS h2h fights, Netflix DD, Kingpin and Kilgrave!

I just do.

The coordination of the entire scene is just that spectacular.

 

[Khev]

God I love the fluctuating grey and blue shading and textures on his helmet during this scene with his blacked out eyes.

Not only does it serve as a call back to some of those Ultimates panels but it also serves as a visual illustration of his internal moral tug of war conflicts and struggle being brought up to the surface as he rides an elevator down deeper into conflict and hidden memories of his friend Bucky and Stark.

View attachment 294728

That's one of my favorite shots in the movie. I'm sure it was surreal for him to be ready for battle standing with his lifelong friend and war buddy, especially after the darkness of Peggy's death. I saw him as both savoring the moment while asking "how long can this last?"

I'm inclined to believe that when Bucky told Sam and Cap about the other winter soldiers that that is when he either confessed to killing Tony's parents or that Cap figured it out by connecting the dots of what Bucky said. He obviously knew that Howard was murdered by a HYDRA agent and that it was meant to look like a car accident. Bucky saying somethin like "that shady guy wanted to know about a mission I did in late 1991, where I ran a rich couple off the road, killed them and put them back in the car, then stole the serum," would have kept Sam oblivious while Steve might think "holy ****, I know who those people would have been."

The reason I'm leaning toward that interpretation is because when they are questioning Bucky we just see the 1991 events unfold again, this time with the security camera footage added, and *no* voice-over from Bucky. I could see that being their way of hinting "see, Cap is picking up on all these visuals but we aren't going to spell out everything Bucky is saying in order to save the surprise."

 

[jye4ever]

Well it all goes back to Zola's exposition and BW handing him the folder in TWS.

I also like the complaints of "How dumb that Stark can see all those angles from a security camera"

NOT!

You can clearly see that the Russo's kept it to that one angle everytime they cut away to show Tony watching and that all the other angles and closeups were a visual representation for us the audience of the horrors he was thinking of how it was playing out. He was piecing the rest together based off that one angle.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

One of my favorite little moments during the airport battle is when Ant Man is talking about his distraction and Bucky looks at Cap with a confused look and says "he's going to tear himself apart?". You almost expect him say WTF?

It didn't occur to me before, but when Bucky and Cap are headed down that bunker and they know Zemo has already gotten there they have to be thinking about nothing short of killing those Hydra soldiers. There's no other option based on what Bucky told Steve and Sam.

 

[Khev]

Geez man, after my home viewing I was blown away by the end conflict even more than from my multiple theatrical viewings. When Bucky says to Steve "I don't know if i'm worth all this" or him owning his actions with "I still did it" and "I remember all their faces".

Powerful stuff.

I even feel a little pit in my stomach when Zemo deletes his wife's voicemails from his phone at the end. Even though he's the villain he's also just a guy who lost his innocent family and when she disappears off his phone it's like then in that moment she becomes truly dead. I think the reason it hits me is because I know I'm also the type of guy who would keep recordings like that and torture myself by listening to them over and over if a family member that close to me passed away.

I'm also now ready to proclaim after my 3D viewing that the airport battle is now hands down my favorite cinematc comic book moment, ever!

I choose it over seeing Reeve flying for the first time, Keaton in costume, 89 Batmobile and Batwing, Nicholson Joker, Elfman score, anything from Raimi Spiderman 2, anything from BB, Ledger Joker, Avengers assembling for the first time, TWS h2h fights, Netflix DD, Kingpin and Kilgrave!

I just do.

The coordination of the entire scene is just that spectacular.

I agree that the airport battle is simply the most joyfully exuberant "comic book" moment in the history of film. And not just all comics, Marvel comics in particular. Iron Man, War Marchine and Spider-Man zipping around Giant Man brings to life all those covers where teams like the Fantastic Four swarm big giants like Galactus.

 

[Khev]

One of my favorite little moments during the airport battle is when Ant Man is talking about his distraction and Bucky looks at Cap with a confused look and says "he's going to tear himself apart?". You almost expect him say WTF?

Yep. And for whatever reason I just crack up every time Spidey is swinging around Giant Man's arm and Rudd says "Get OFF!" Rudd just sounds so genuinely frustrated but in a totally normal regular guy, "I just walked through a spider web and am trying to get the strands off but now it's been a couple minutes and I'm just getting annoyed" kind of way.

 

[morphosis]

Definitely didn't see that coming.



So three Cap films don't count as a trilogy but seven Star Wars films does?



One nice thing about the Russos is that they don't go the Bourne/Nolan route with patty-cake fights done entirely in jittery close-ups. Lots of medium shot action in the Cap films. With both the Batroc and Crossbones duels you'd get nice full body or waist shots allowing you to clearly follow the moves of each combatant while keeping track of where they were with regard to their surroundings. Sure you'd get some close-ups here and there but only to accentuate the action, not to hide dodgy choreography or martial arts.

I did notice that the shaky cam kind of stuck out in TWS especially watching it back to back with the other two. After two hours of steadicam in TFA it was a bit jarring to see Steve and Sam chatting about Marvin Gaye at the beginning of TWS while the camera was flailing about like someone with Parkinson's was filming them during an earthquake. They really toned it down in CW.

well they are a trilogy because for 16 years that was all we had for the entire Star Wars saga on film. So it was known as a trilogy for 16 years. plus the stories of I-II-III began and ended many years before ANH so those stand alone too. then VII-VIII-IX is also going to be its own trilogy. They may all be connected, but there is huge gaps of time between each for both filming and in the story. They are made in threes. So they are trilogies.

The Cap films are all part of a the MCU by Marvel Studios, they all feed off each other and are being filmed in chronological order for the most part one after another. They were never just going to be 3 films. So i cant see how any of the MCU is considered a trilogy