Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Again, though, look at The Wizard of Oz; look at the films that surrounded it, and all that it accomplished during that time. The point is that this is all subjective. You, or Jye, or even I can't objectively say that one film is superior to another, because film is art and art is subjective. Hell, you could say that Kurosawa's work was the most influential of all time, as its effects were felt in films ranging from Star Wars to The Magnificent Seven; the list goes on and on.

Of course film is subjective. Whether or not you like a film, that's subjective because no one can say that you are right or wrong for liking a film. However, I'm not just talking about what a film accomplished during a specific time period. The Wizard of Oz had great special effects in 1940, that's a fact. It's also a fact that modern films have better effects than the Wizard of Oz...that's not subjective, I don't think. When I say that ROTK is the greatest cinematic achievement, I'm not saying it because I like the film or because it's my favorite, which is not.

If we objectively look at ROTK, there is no other film so far that has been able to excel in every category to the level of greatness of that film. Name another film that comes even close to succeeding in every discipline imaginable. Is the acting, the makeup, the lighting, the costumes, the directing, the cinematography, the score, the writing...etc.. in The Wizard of Oz better than ROTK? No not really, and I don't think that an opinion has anything to do with those disciplines that I just mentioned. Now, you can prefer one film over the other as far entertainment goes, that's subjective.

 

[batfan08]

Still, though, it all depends on what you're looking for. You just argued that Star Wars' special effects and its identity as a sci-fi film during an era full of predominantly down-to-earth dramas were its main contributions to film. Now, you're saying that, objectively, Return of The King has the greatest lighting, make-up, cinematography, and acting, of any film, ever.

In my mind, I could say that The Godfather is the greatest film, ever, for the same reasons. I mean, the lighting in that first scene, alone; the atmosphere it created, the shadows from the blinds, the way Brando's face was shrouded in darkness, and the consistency of the acting in the film, as well; Brando, who is one of the greatest actors of all time, Al Pacino, James Caan, John Cazale; all of these individuals turning in stellar performances. The make-up; how Brando, a 48-year old man, was able to portray Vito Corleone, who was 63, by the end of that film. It was legendary.

The same could be said for any number of Sergio Leone's films. The costuming in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly is so iconic that, to this day, Clint Eastwood's Blondie is instantly recognizable. On the flip side, Eli Wallach's performance as Tuco rendered him nearly unrecognizable, and, come on? Who is really going to call into question Sergio Leone's direction, Ennio Morricone's music, or the beautiful Cinematography by Tonino Delli Colli (full disclosure: I had to look that last one up, but his work speaks for itself)?

I'm sure, by now, you can see where I'm going with this. You can objectively look at the quality of these films and say that they're all the best (and I do believe that they're some of the best), at any given moment, but, objectively, that will only ever be your opinion.

 

[guy66657]

Looks like we have yet again another new rumored proto Spidey suit.

 

[RIDDICK]

Fake or not, I really like this one.
Except fingerless gloves - it's just stupid for a masked crime fighter to leave his fingerprints all over the place.

 

[jye4ever]

No leaked footage!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Still, though, it all depends on what you're looking for. You just argued that Star Wars' special effects and its identity as a sci-fi film during an era full of predominantly down-to-earth dramas were its main contributions to film. Now, you're saying that, objectively, Return of The King has the greatest lighting, make-up, cinematography, and acting, of any film, ever.

In my mind, I could say that The Godfather is the greatest film, ever, for the same reasons. I mean, the lighting in that first scene, alone; the atmosphere it created, the shadows from the blinds, the way Brando's face was shrouded in darkness, and the consistency of the acting in the film, as well; Brando, who is one of the greatest actors of all time, Al Pacino, James Caan, John Cazale; all of these individuals turning in stellar performances. The make-up; how Brando, a 48-year old man, was able to portray Vito Corleone, who was 63, by the end of that film. It was legendary.

The same could be said for any number of Sergio Leone's films. The costuming in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly is so iconic that, to this day, Clint Eastwood's Blondie is instantly recognizable. On the flip side, Eli Wallach's performance as Tuco rendered him nearly unrecognizable, and, come on? Who is really going to call into question Sergio Leone's direction, Ennio Morricone's music, or the beautiful Cinematography by Tonino Delli Colli (full disclosure: I had to look that last one up, but his work speaks for itself)?

I'm sure, by now, you can see where I'm going with this. You can objectively look at the quality of these films and say that they're all the best (and I do believe that they're some of the best), at any given moment, but, objectively, that will only ever be your opinion.

Except, The Godfather and The Sergio Leone's films don't have the amount of makeup complexity, creatures, the blend of CGI with practical effects, complex costumes, epic battles, the overall scale, and world building that ROTK had. I understand what you're saying, and IMO, the Godfather part 1 and 2 are the two greatest films ever, but when I say greatest cinematic achievement, I'm talking about every discipline done to "perfection" at a massive scale. That's why I say that no other film comes close to it so far. ROTK has it all in one epic film.

 

[Deckard]

Except, The Godfather and The Sergio Leone's films don't have the amount of makeup complexity, creatures, the blend of CGI with practical effects, complex costumes, epic battles, the overall scale, and world building that ROTK had. I understand what you're saying, and IMO, the Godfather part 1 and 2 are the two greatest films ever, but when I say greatest cinematic achievement, I'm talking about every discipline done to "perfection" at a massive scale. That's why I say no other film comes close to it so far. ROTK has everything to the highest level all in one epic film. The only thing it doesn't have is a space battle

 

[jye4ever]

A thousand perfect movies out there, none had the impact that SW did, not even Jaws.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

A thousand perfect movies out there, none had the impact on me that SW did, not even Jaws.

Fixed

 

[jye4ever]

4 billion people would disagree with you.

 

[WWEJedi]

Fixed

Star Wars is the greatest, most influential, most well known franchise there was, is, or ever will be.

I agree with jye.

 

[RIDDICK]

No leaked footage!

Let's take Disney under siege, this footage belongs to everyone!

 

[chewblacca]

Star Wars came at the right time. Till then Kubricks 2001 was the ultimate space film keeping all the special effects grounded in reality. Which to my young eyes back then was pretty boring. Then Star Wars came and opened up a whole new world for. . . Everything. The music, the effects, the action, it changed everything. That's why now ever sci-fi movie with a space theme is compared to Star Wars.

 

[jye4ever]

Roddenbury envisioned a future without currency where all humans were equal.

He's dead and his legacy is judged on box office performance by Wall Street executives.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Star Wars is the greatest,

Subjective

most influential,

Subjective

most well known franchise there was, is, or ever will be.

Subjective

 

[WWEJedi]

Fact



Fact



Fact

Fixed.

 

[karamazov80]

Roddenberry didn't believe all people were equal. Clearly, Capt. Picard is way more competent, thoughtful, and self-assured than Lt. Barclay, and gets recognition for that. He just didn't believe that, in human socieity, capitalism would dictate access to material things.

But anyway, this whole Star Wars/Star Trek debate is illogical. I think we need Quark in here to school us on the Third Rule of Acquisition.

 

[RIDDICK]

Roddenbury is dead and his legacy is judged on box office performance by Wall Street executives.

Roddenberry didn't believe all people were equal. Clearly, Capt. Picard is way more competent, thoughtful, and self-assured than Lt. Barclay, and gets recognition for that. He just didn't believe that, in human socieity, capitalism would dictate access to material things.

I think we need Quark in here to school us on the Third Rule of Acquisition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdQcGzbpN7s

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Did he say the Kardashians can't be trusted? Talk about a visionary show.

 

[karamazov80]

Yep, ahead of its time in more ways than people realize. Who else knew the Kardashians would build an intergalactic, war-mongering empire back in the '90s?