Civil War

[Buttmunch]

Since we already register in a way with Social Security, firearms, etc. It would make perfect sense for those with special abilities to registar them. If people can blow up things with their mind is it OK to let them go about blowing up people or things as they wish? It would only serve as a saftey percaution to regular people. Not every special person would have to be a government agent. I just think the registration would help prevent more events like the one in Civil War #1.

Although I can totally see Captain America's viewpoint.

I wonder if we the readers will have any influence on the outcome of the war. For example, the issue of Batman where the readers could call a number if they wanted Robin to live and a differnent number if they wanted to die. I think it would be interesting to see where the majority of the readers will actually side with.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I don't think your example of social security registration is valid.

The superheroes have to register because they are different than the rest of America. It's like saying if you are middle eastern in the US, you have to register. If you are non-middle eastern, then you don't have to register.
Once the government starts to treat a group of people different, then our democracy falls apart.

Why do you think Captain America is anti-registration.

These superheroes didn't have a choice with their superpowers, they can't just turn them off. Take mutants for example.

I understand that superheroes are capable of massive destruction, but they are also capable of massive good.

My feelings exactly DG! Well said....

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

This story (and House of M) has great contrast with the Earth X miniseries. In that future, everyone had powers or had "evolved" while Captain America fought to bring down the regime that had taken over.

 

[Viking28]

I think I more with Iron Man, if I moved into a neighborhood I would like to know my next door neighbor has the power to blow up a 5 mile radius of the surronding area. Or if some super villian is going to attack him but instead gets his directions mixed up and attacks my house by mistake.
Or because it always happens they get in a fist fight and send the other guy flying through a couple houses.

I could probley live without that kind of stress added to my daily life.

 

[Buttmunch]

I think I more with Iron Man, if I moved into a neighborhood I would like to know my next door neighbor has the power to blow up a 5 mile radius of the surronding area. Or if some super villian is going to attack him but instead gets his directions mixed up and attacks my house by mistake.
Or because it always happens they get in a fist fight and send the other guy flying through a couple houses.

I could probley live without that kind of stress added to my daily life.

Yeah I'm not on my own here anymore! Show your support Viking:

https://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/705/705589/civil-war-20060508071658837-000.jpg

 

[ffl1940]

Originally Posted by Duckgoo
I don't think your example of social security registration is valid.

The superheroes have to register because they are different than the rest of America. It's like saying if you are middle eastern in the US, you have to register. If you are non-middle eastern, then you don't have to register.
Once the government starts to treat a group of people different, then our democracy falls apart.

The racial comparison is not valid in the case of all the heroes that rely on a weapon, ring, hammer, amulet, etc that either gives them their power, or enhances it, an item they CHOOSE to use.

I know the argument is about registering the hero themselves, but what about registration of the items of power for those that wield them, and have no other source of power? In those cases it's nothing like race at all, in cases of a hero carrying/wearing/wielding a potentiall deadly item/weapon, it's a CHOICE.

Captain America CHOOSES to carry around a shield that can be a deadly weapon or a way to defend himself. He shouldn't have to register the shield, but I should have to register a gun which is also a deadly weapon but also a potential way to defend myself should I be attacked?

Thor carries a hammer and many other superheroes CHOOSE to carry items that can cause great destruction.

yeah, some of those guys have powers beyond just the items, but what of everyday ordinary people that choose to be superheroes because the create a suit of armor, find a ring or amulet/carry/wield some magical powerful item? They choose it, it isn't like race at all.

How is it democratic that someone who is like anyone else can find an amulet/put on or inherit a ring, carry a shield or hammer, etc. that gives them immense powers that they can use on a whim, but if I choose to legally buy a gun I should have to tell the government all about myself and register?

 

[Duckgoo]

The racial comparison is not valid in the case of all the heroes that rely on a weapon, ring, hammer, amulet, etc that either gives them their power, or enhances it, an item they CHOOSE to use.

I know the argument is about registering the hero themselves, but what about registration of the items of power for those that wield them, and have no other source of power? In those cases it's nothing like race at all, in cases of a hero carrying/wearing/wielding a potentiall deadly item/weapon, it's a CHOICE.

Captain America CHOOSES to carry around a shield that can be a deadly weapon or a way to defend himself. He shouldn't have to register the shield, but I should have to register a gun which is also a deadly weapon but also a potential way to defend myself should I be attacked?

Thor carries a hammer and many other superheroes CHOOSE to carry items that can cause great destruction.

yeah, some of those guys have powers beyond just the items, but what of everyday ordinary people that choose to be superheroes because the create a suit of armor, find a ring or amulet/carry/wield some magical powerful item? They choose it, it isn't like race at all.

How is it democratic that someone who is like anyone else can find an amulet/put on or inherit a ring, carry a shield or hammer, etc. that gives them immense powers that they can use on a whim, but if I choose to legally buy a gun I should have to tell the government all about myself and register?

This weapons registration aspect is interesting. I can buy swords off Ebay and I don't have to register swords which can hurt/kill people, but I have to register guns which do the same thing. If I invent a lightsaber, would I have to register it? Current laws would say no.

I would say if you choose to use a suit of armor, ring, amulet, or magical item to power yourself, then you should have to register those items. But you don't have to register yourself. Anyone can use these items for destruction (with some exceptions of course). In reality, I think the government would confiscate these weapons for public safety and develop them for military uses. So registering these weapons would be a moot point.

 

[Viking28]

This weapons registration aspect is interesting. I can buy swords off Ebay and I don't have to register swords which can hurt/kill people, but I have to register guns which do the same thing. If I invent a lightsaber, would I have to register it? Current laws would say no.

I would say if you choose to use a suit of armor, ring, amulet, or magical item to power yourself, then you should have to register those items. But you don't have to register yourself. Anyone can use these items for destruction (with some exceptions of course). In reality, I think the government would confiscate these weapons for public safety and develop them for military uses. So registering these weapons would be a moot point.

SO........what if you were born with that power?

 

[wookilar8]

I think I more with Iron Man, if I moved into a neighborhood I would like to know my next door neighbor has the power to blow up a 5 mile radius of the surronding area. Or if some super villian is going to attack him but instead gets his directions mixed up and attacks my house by mistake.
Or because it always happens they get in a fist fight and send the other guy flying through a couple houses.

I could probley live without that kind of stress added to my daily life.

The only problem I see with this train of thought is that by registering with the government, your private information is in their files. And we all know how easy it is to get private government files.

 

[bluesparrow]

The problem with Iron Man's side in this is he's allied himself with so many evil people it's hard to take him seriously. The Thunderbolts hunting down heroes, and he approves? Deadpool too? Come on.

Not to mention SHIELD. Brian Bendis(the architect of this whole thing) has spent the last two years making this current SHIELD administration out to be evil, corrupt, and brutal in the pages of New Avengers alone. They mind-raped Spider-man just a few issues ago. Hell, the SHIELD agents responsible for enforcing this law call themselves "Cape Killers,"* which is hardly an endorsement of their objectivity or rationality. When SHIELD told Cap about the law, they attacked him unprovoked, BEFORE the law was even enacted.

Whereas all the characters who are defined by their notions of honor and nobility joined Cap's side, or at least declined to join Iron Man's side(Namor, Black Panther, Cap, Luke Cage, Black Bolt, Dr Strange, Hercules, Nick Fury). Just not Thor, for now.

I don't see how Iron Man's side is going to come out of this as heroes.


*Plus that "cape killers" thing is stupid anyway. How many characters in the Marvel Universe wear capes? Thor, Sentry, Scarlet Witch, Ultron, Adam Warlock(not exactly in their jurisdiction), Dr Strange? Maybe one or two others. However the 3000 remaining heroes don't. Stupid Bendis.

 

[Buttmunch]

Another way I see things is like this. With Spider-Man, he has always done his job for free. Now the government is making heroes register. So why not register (like any law abiding hero would do) AND get PAID for it. Peter has never been the billionaire like Stark or Bruce Wayne are. Besides Aunt May and Mary Jane have been attacked and kidnapped so many times even before Spider-Man's identity was known. In the movies alone MJ has been attack or kidnapped 3 times and 2 for Aunt May. There saftey isn't going to be changing that much.

 

[Viking28]

The only problem I see with this train of thought is that by registering with the government, your private information is in their files. And we all know how easy it is to get private government files.

What a second your telling me they dont have that anyway??????

 

[Duckgoo]

At the end of the day, both sides are right and both sides are wrong.

The real tragedy here is that both sides can't work this out without bloodshed, so we all lose in the end.

But if both sides work it out without conflict, we won't have comics to read.

 

[ffl1940]

SO........what if you were born with that power?

Hey Viking, the point was made to address my post specifically concerning those that were not born with a power, but that relied on some potentially deadly item that they chose to wield.

Those born with a power is a different issue and I guess I can see both sides of that. What I can't see is why someone would say it's unfair to make a hero who uses a gun register, but then say that ordinary citizens should have to register their guns (and BTW,don't own a gun and never will).

I also don't know that I understand what Duckgoo means by saying that a hero that used an item should register the item, but not themselves. So heroes should anonymously send in a form saying "hey, I've got a suit of armor that fires missiles, lasers and leaves me nearly invulnerable, see ya!!!" That doesn't help very much, while a law abiding citizen who wants a pistol for target practice needs to reveal their name, address, and what gun they bought to the gov't. Doesn't seem right. Of course the answer would be to stop gun registration altogether. Then I'd be on the side of the anti-registration forces. So as soon as Cap comes out against gun registration I'm joining him!

 

[Duckgoo]

Hey Viking, the point was made to address my post specifically concerning those that were not born with a power, but that relied on some potentially deadly item that they chose to wield.

Those born with a power is a different issue and I guess I can see both sides of that. What I can't see is why someone would say it's unfair to make a hero who uses a gun register, but then say that ordinary citizens should have to register their guns (and BTW,don't own a gun and never will).

I also don't know that I understand what Duckgoo means by saying that a hero that used an item should register the item, but not themselves. So heroes should anonymously send in a form saying "hey, I've got a suit of armor that fires missiles, lasers and leaves me nearly invulnerable, see ya!!!" That doesn't help very much, while a law abiding citizen who wants a pistol for target practice needs to reveal their name, address, and what gun they bought to the gov't. Doesn't seem right. Of course the answer would be to stop gun registration altogether. Then I'd be on the side of the anti-registration forces. So as soon as Cap comes out against gun registration I'm joining him!

I said that if you had "a suit of armor that fires missiles, lasers and leaves me nearly invulnerable", then the government will take it from you and use it for military applications. Which leaves the issue of registration a moot point. The government would be crazy to let you keep such a thing, forget registration!!! They will probably put you in Area 51 and help them develop more weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Mithrandier]

Roster Spoilers for the new onging series "The Mighty Avengers". Picture is from Wizard Magazine.

The roster is as follows:

Black Widow
Iron Man
Wonder Man
Wasp
Ms. Marvel
Ares

See here

 

[ffl1940]

I said that if you had "a suit of armor that fires missiles, lasers and leaves me nearly invulnerable", then the government will take it from you and use it for military applications. Which leaves the issue of registration a moot point. The government would be crazy to let you keep such a thing, forget registration!!! They will probably put you in Area 51 and help them develop more weapons of mass destruction.

You're using real world hypotheticals to deal with a "real" comic world issue. We're dealing with a world where such suits exist and where the gov't only requires you to register, they're not taking Tony's suit away from him. As it's a comic world based on our own, unless we read otherwise, the basic laws of our land exist in this comic one.

But lets compare real to comic worlds. How is it democratic (a world you like to use), that someone (in the comic book world) with a lot of money can create a weapon, or build a suit and be free to use that weapon or suit as they see fit with no need to tell the gov't who they are, and what they have, someone who might apparently be using it for "good" but who could have a criminal record, while at the same time you seemingly believe that a law abiding people in the "real world" must register themselves with the goverment if they want a handgun? Why is it okay for someone in the comic book world, maybe someone with bi-polar disorder who has a history of not taking their medication, to stumble across a ring that gives them immense power, and play "hero" without having to register, but a stable, law abiding citizen should be required to register a handgun?

I don't follow the logic.

 

[Hightreker]

Just got that issue of Wizard in the mail today. Haven't read it all yet, but I did read the Mighty Avengers preview. For anyone who doesn't usually get Wizard, I'd deffinately recommend picking this issue up. Oh, and the Brian Bendis interview was interesting. (It might not be Tony behind the Iron Man suit in the Mighty Avengers)

 

[Captain Faramir]

Hey dudes, can anybody help me find a really detailed summary of the past issues? I can't find any really good synopses of the story so far--is there a place with all the details?

 

[Mithrandier]

Hey dudes, can anybody help me find a really detailed summary of the past issues? I can't find any really good synopses of the story so far--is there a place with all the details?

Go to www.uncannyxmen.net and then look under issue summaries in the issue information section. These guys do an actual summary, not a review. It really is a great site.