Classic Films aging badly

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

This.

Cyberdyne shootout, freeway chase, steel mill climax > Tiki motel sex, freeway chase, computer factory

Cameron added some pathos to the T2 ending as well by giving the T 800 an emotional yet heroic farewell. It was perfect.

 

[JAWS]

Unfortunately, that's where the film peaks. The final chase and fight in the factory are underwhelming by comparison and the effects look even more dated now. Cameron clearly learned from it when he made T2. The third act of T2 is why a lot people consider T2 the best action film ever made.

Weird. Cause I dont like any of the ending of T2.. Its another Factory with sparks flying around for no reason.

Now I am very use to the stop motion effect and such in T1 so they don't bother me.. And again it has that horror feel so I much prefer that.

T2 ending goes on and on and on and on. And non of it especially in the factory is all that interesting or intense to me.

I mean T2 action.. what really stands out that we had not seen done before? The Truck busting and falling through the bridge is a great shot.. But its not like any of it was all that original or different other then the t-1000

Give me Tech Noir, Police Station shoot out, and factory chase over anything in T2. as all of it is more intense and exciting compared to T2.



I dont mean to bash on T2.. As I do like it.. I just never understood the "greatest action movie ever made" hype. Not when Raiders of the Lost Ark, Die Hard, Predator, First Blood and Lethal Weapon are all out there.

Looking at that list I just made... So much of it comes down to the characters and Story.. I just dont like the characters as much in T2.. Its a lot of spectacle but other then Robert Patrick and Arnold I really am really kind of cold to the rest of them... Thus the OK action is diminished for me and does not feel as fresh or intense as say First Blood... Which is not all that original action wise but because I am invested in the character I care a lot more about the action.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I selected T2 because that is the big Hollywood version of the series but I could have easily said T1/T2. Neither movie really appeals to me anymore. The endo is as dated as Dracula or Frankenstein from the 30's were when Terminator first appeared. In its time, T1 was the perfect modern monster... but it is no longer modern. It is a monster of a time past.

I still believe the first Alien movie has so much atmosphere that it still holds up even in 2021. And the creature design is still one of the best, most original designs ever... despite being locked into the traditional man-in-suit problems (at least the xenomorph concept explained this with justification).

The basic concept of the Endo -- killer robot -- obviously still holds up, but to me Cameron's style and his low-brow preference has waned. He's never had innovative camera techniques as one of his tools so his films get dated faster. His 'blue nights' gets tiresome. I still consider him a master filmmaker, but like many great composers, over time he seems to have run out of tricks and many of his movies feel the same, look the same, and have the same band of blue-collar grunt humor.



On another note, I'd say Lethal Weapon is one of those movies that is also showing its age. It feels like a bad TV show now. Clothing, hair, film style, everything was of its time... and that was indeed a long time ago.

Something like Predator the year before hides its age with an exotic jungle, has a really terrific score that elevates the movie well beyond its level, and has some story innovation -- its half Hero vs Monster, and half who will die of the crew -- a great mix of both Alien and Terminator in a glorious locale. Its an A-level "Commando". It could be a Cameron movie but fortunately it isn't dragged down by Cameron's need for schmaltz. Predator is the perfect B movie. Like Die Hard.

 

[JAWS]

This.

Cyberdyne shootout, freeway chase, steel mill climax > Tiki motel sex, freeway chase, computer factory

Ill go with my above comment on why I prefer the ending of T1.. I personally find the Cyberdyne shoot out to be a bore as nothing is really happening..

T1s worst action scene is that Bike / truck / bigger truck chase.. Ill admit that is very meh...

Nothing will beat that first shot of the T-800 coming out of the rubble at the end of T1... That was such a great moment and by itself beats any of the factory stuff in T2..

And go ahead, rip on Hamilton and Furlong?s performances in T2. Her and Biehn?s performance in the first one aren?t any better. They cut out that scene where he turns the gun on her in the woods when she wants to go to Cyberdyne because the acting sucked, but that?s not the only instance of them being annoying. They?re at their best when they?re running and not talking.

Nothing wrong with Bien's speeches about the Terminator and the future.. He might have a bad line or two but come on.. lets not try and say that he is no better then Furlong

Hamilton is much more interesting as a militarized psycho high on her own BS than she is a waitress damsel in distress.

Hamilton maybe would not be as bad but some of her lines are just.. Ah cringe.... "You dont know whats its like to create life.. just take life life.." So it might be the writing I like less then the performance.

I prefer the more relatable waitress.. Its cool and believable that she grew into the person she did though.. So I don't really have an issue there.. BUT since she does not have lines as bad as some of the ones in T2 I think her performance is better.

I ****ing LOVE that scene where Sarah is sneaking throughout Pescadero at night and takes Silberman hostage. The only scene in T1 that gets as atmospheric as that in T1 is the Tech Noir shootout.

Do you mean atmosphere or suspense.

As much as I love the police station shootout, nothing beats that slow build up of the T-800 wandering around the crowd scoping out Sarah whole Burning in the third degree plays.

Tech noir is great.. All of it.. The moment you mentioned. Kyle Reese unloading on the T-800. T-800 getting up after being shot but Reese.. Punching through the window and almost getting Sarah..




Which brings me to the main reason T2 will always pale in comparison to T1.. ARNOLD... He was just freaking perfect in T1.. So much scarier then the T-1000.

Arnold getting up after getting thrown off the car after Tech Noir shoot out.. That look in his eyes... Bad Ass!!!

I love Robert Patrick.. but he was no Arnold.. Plus having an Arnold protect John against another terminator is less intense then Regular human protecting Sarah from Terminator.



I think it boils down to that I prefer the Horror movie atmosphere of T1 then the slick action movie atmosphere of T2.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

as dated as Dracula or Frankenstein from the 30's...

Now you're hating on Frankie and Dracula? Those designs are timeless.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Almost as dated as the gif.

 

[JAWS]

I selected T2 because that is the big Hollywood version of the series but I could have easily said T1/T2. Neither movie really appeals to me anymore. The endo is as dated as Dracula or Frankenstein from the 30's were when Terminator first appeared. In its time, T1 was the perfect modern monster... but it is no longer modern. It is a monster of a time past.

You need to take this all back

I still believe the first Alien movie has so much atmosphere that it still holds up even in 2021. And the creature design is still one of the best, most original designs ever... despite being locked into the traditional man-in-suit problems (at least the xenomorph concept explained this with justification).

ALIEN is just one of those perfect films.

The basic concept of the Endo -- killer robot -- obviously still holds up, but to me Cameron's style and his low-brow preference has waned. He's never had innovative camera techniques as one of his tools so his films get dated faster. His 'blue nights' gets tiresome. I still consider him a master filmmaker, but like many great composers, over time he seems to have run out of tricks and many of his movies feel the same, look the same, and have the same band of blue-collar grunt humor.

I think T1 feel the least like a Cameron film.. It lacks the Blue Nights look you mention.. Which I am glad you did.. I always refer to it as Cameron Blue .. I hate it.. But T1 has very little of that even though most of the film takes place at night.

The lack of a big budget and more of a horror film in style helps it not feel like a Cameron film also.

Personally other then T1 and ALIENS.. I am not really a Cameron fan.

On another note, I'd say Lethal Weapon is one of those movies that is also showing its age. It feels like a bad TV show now. Clothing, hair, film style, everything was of its time... and that was indeed a long time ago.

Because the film always was as much a comedy then anything else I am a bit more forgiving. I personally don't mind the clothing and hair style because its just the time it was made.. It amounts to a period picture for me.

Its film making style is a bit of an issue. Richard Donner always makes good films but lacks a ton of originality with the camera.

But its still a good well made movie..

Its an 80's action film for sure.. But I recently showed it to my kids and they both enjoyed it.

Lethal Weapon 2 is a film I think is a good example of a film that has aged a bit worse with its comic book guys.

Something like Predator the year before hides its age with an exotic jungle, has a really terrific score that elevates the movie well beyond its level, and has some story innovation -- its half Hero vs Monster, and half who will die of the crew -- a great mix of both Alien and Terminator in a glorious locale. Its an A-level "Commando". It could be a Cameron movie but fortunately it isn't dragged down by Cameron's need for schmaltz. Predator is the perfect B movie. Like Die Hard.[

Predator is slightly derailed by the battle scene in the middle.. Only part of the film not directed by JM... And it shows.



Anyways most of that we are discussing are IMO, still well made movies, I guess I look at this list as being more about films like Commando that we once thought were great but there is no denying how bad they have become.


Rambo: First Blood Part 2.

Thought it was the greatest thing ever for a long time.

Its pretty awful. The first "Show the gun firing, show the guy falling, rinse and repeat" film of the 80's Commando might have perfected that That battle I mentioned in Predator does that same crap.

 

[JAWS]

Now you're hating on Frankie and Dracula? Those designs are timeless.

Yeah.. If we are talking about timeless designs then the T-800 belongs there with Frankie and Drac.. Sure they are not scary anymore but they are still great. I would argue that the ALIEN is not really scary anymore. I blame all the toys and poorly made films that helped demystify it.

 

[Rotfish]

I love how T2 is this sacred cow that everyone is always out to slaughter. It?s not just on here, but other sites as well. People are always gunning for it.

It?s untouchable, perfect movie really. The criticisms against it are always so hollow and basically amount to bringing up the first movie.

I that T2 improves on T1 in several ways, but what hurts it for me is the tone. T1, despite its occasional moments of '80s cheese (and the awkward/unnecessary sex scene), still feels like a darker, seedier movie. T2 is a crowd-pleaser complete with jokes, one-liners, and light-hearted family moments. It's possible to prefer one over the other without "slaughtering" the other.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The only things in T2 that didn't age well are the mullet kid's hair, the big jocks with the mullets, and when the T 800 jumps off the truck and turns into a little ball like Sonic the Hedgehog.

As for Lethal Weapon, the whole franchise is dated...in a good way tho.

 

[a-dev]

There's a lot of poop-mouth in this thread. Too much.

The only things in T2 that didn't age well are the mullet kid's hair, the big jocks with the mullets, and when the T 800 jumps off the truck and turns into a little ball like Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Khev]

The only things in T2 that didn't age well are the mullet kid's hair, the big jocks with the mullets, and when the T 800 jumps off the truck and turns into a little ball like Sonic the Hedgehog.

That has nothing to do with aging poorly, the shot looked terrible in 1991, lol.

 

[Rotfish]

Plus having an Arnold protect John against another terminator is less intense then Regular human protecting Sarah from Terminator.

Exactly. And Sarah only just met Kyle in T1. They barely know each other, yet they have to stick together because everyone else thinks they're crazy. In T2, Sarah's got her son, her off-the-grid buddies, and Dyson's family backing her up. She's nowhere near as alone as in T1.

Having that said, I still enjoy the movie and would appreciate someone selling me their HCG 1/2 Endo torso.

There's a lot of poop-mouth in this thread. Too much.

 

[Wor-Gar]

films like Commando that we once thought were great but there is no denying how bad they have become.

I'm a little older than you and never thought Commando was a great film. Poorly short, poorly costumed, poorly acted, and just poorly made in every aspect. It was a head-scratcher for me at its time. So popular that Arnold even kept the look for Predator. The two films that truly shaped Arnold's style were T1 and Commando -- from his look to his famous one-liner.

 

[DiFabio]

when the T 800 jumps off the truck and turns into a little ball like Sonic the Hedgehog.

Master, Destroyers . . . . with SHIELD GENERATORS!!

 

[Rotfish]

I'm a little older than you and never thought Commando was a great film. Poorly short, poorly costumed, poorly acted, and just poorly made in every aspect. It was a head-scratcher for me at its time. So popular that Arnold even kept the look for Predator. The two films that truly shaped Arnold's style were T1 and Commando -- from his look to his famous one-liner.

Is Commando considered a classic? Sure, it was big for Arnold's career at the time, but Conan, T1/T2, and Predator are much more iconic.

I always thought of it as a silly, pulpy, hypermasculine action film that's so over-the-top it even works as a satire. I'd never watch it if I were craving something "great," but it's a fun one if you want unfiltered, unadulterated Arnold.

 

[a-dev]

I finally caught Commando in full last year having only seen it in parts before. Some of the explosions and miniature work was absolutely horrendous. I don't know how they got away with it even back then. Buildings exploding with obvious little toy soldiers in front of them, rooted to the spot, completely unmoving. Laughable.

It's lucky Arnie has genuine classics in his catalogue to compensate.

You have shown you understood that reference.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Is Commando considered a classic?

Only to some people around here. Many of the same ones who think Goonies is also Classic.

 

[Rotfish]

Only to some people around here. Many of the same ones who think Goonies is also Classic.

Oh, boy. I recently watched that one for the first time in over 15 years. Not sure why it charmed me so much as a child, it's literally kids screaming over each other for two hours.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Calling films from the 80s and 90s classics feels weird. In my mind theyre not that old. When I was a kid, only films from the 20s - 60s were considered classics. Somehow calling Ghostbusters, Predator, Robocop, Pulp Fiction or The Matrix classics sounds ridiculous. How long before Pirates of the Caribbean, LOTR or TDK are considered classics?Are Infinity War and Endgame future classics too? GOTG the future Ghostbusters for kids today? How long before they're dated too?