Custom Release Etiquette Discussion

[karamazov80]

There was recent discussion in another thread over custom release etiquette. I think it's a discussion worth having, just not in threads dedicated to specific figures/releases. So, here is a place to have a (civil) discussion on this issue.

 

[EVILFACE]

Within 30 day of payment.

 

[Levit05]

i'm with Evil Face....some sort of a timely window is always a plus...

 

[karamazov80]

That would definitely be nice. The concern there is that folks can't do things without using pre-order payments to invest in the resources to get projects started. And as a result, if we go there, we wouldn't get lots of great projects that we do see (or so we are told).

I'm not extremely sympathetic to that argument, but I do understand that not everyone here is a full blown business, or just doesn't have the resources needed to get a project done upfront. But when something takes, say, 6 months to be released after payment I think it is pretty ridiculous. Particularly when full payment for a $400+ figure is required. If it's $20-50 as a down payment to ensure folks are serious, then fine.

I can't speak directly for Dave, but my thought is that the degree to which this is allowed is a function of who is doing it. There are established artists/groups who we are pretty confident aren't going to take the money and run. . .but then, we've had that in the past, when folks lost out on a lot of money when the artist got burned out, or sick, or was attacked by Russian spammers, or moved, or whatever.

 

[EVILFACE]

Since 98% of people here use PayPal, I guess that window could be 45 days.

The way I look at it is once you start making stuff to sell and taking money, you are a business. Resource collection should already have taken place before you start taking money. Sure, they might overestimate by offering something that no one ended up wanting, but it happens.

I'm not sure how Rocco operates, but for a example it looks like: Interest thread, sculpt is shown and collection of monies, item is shipped. That is how it should be done. And within the 45 days of payment.

 

[chubbyman]

full figure customs take longer to finish, as long as there's constant updates and communication between buyer and customizer, it's fine. But for sculpts and accessories, I feel that a 30 day window is the best, enough time to get the item and dispute if there is anything wrong.

 

[karamazov80]

I agree that Rocco's current process is about as good as it gets. I'm sure that sometimes he doesn't sell as many heads as he anticipates, but no one is left hanging and waiting for months on end. Rainman is also actually pretty dang good at this. He may take a bit longer than the Paypal 45 days, but he gets product in collectors' hands within a couple of months after payment.

 

[galactiboy]

Since 98% of people here use PayPal, I guess that window could be 45 days.

The way I look at it is once you start making stuff to sell and taking money, you are a business. Resource collection should already have taken place before you start taking money. Sure, they might overestimate by offering something that no one ended up wanting, but it happens.

I'm not sure how Rocco operates, but for a example it looks like: Interest thread, sculpt is shown and collection of monies, item is shipped. That is how it should be done. And within the 45 days of payment.

I completely agree with you... if you are selling custom figures, or doing any kind of custom work for money then you are a business and the resposibility is on the business to put up the money and costs for the items, not the buyer.

That's what's been such a problem with some of the previous projects that went south and cost people money. Members were using money to buy materials they could not afford on their own, but if something went wrong they did not reimburse the buyers and then you have a seller without a product or means to repay their buyers. I think that in general custom artist should already have sufficient capital to cover the expenses of the work be it a repaint up to an expensive figure.

If you can't cover those costs then you are probably not going to be a very stable business. I don't know how much was lost on the "full" figures offered by Darkarist, Blindvoyeur and Sovereign Studios, but I'd guess easily in the $1,000s.

 

[Mr.E]

Don't buy from people who don't have an established track record of delivering the goods.

 

[mightyq]

i agree with people are saying in here, but with those 30-45 day windows, there are some customizers that would never ever meet those window dates. and i am not saying this in a bad way, i just am stating fact, they always come through, but much much later than any paypal 45 day window...moe prod, spencer, just a few. they make great stuff and always 100% come through, but never make a deadline that even they set. now you have to factor in the tweaking of something also, if the masse's do not like a sculpt or outfit and the customizer needs to tweak, well forget about a date, all bets are off. and 3/4 times a custom needs tweaks, probably more. would never work.

 

[karamazov80]

But why can't the tweaks take place before the payment is received?

Don't buy from people who don't have an established track record of delivering the goods.

That works, until the established guys you order from also fail to deliver. That's what happened with DarkArtist and others in the past. He had accumulated a huge amount of all positive feedback, and then it all went south. You would think you might be fairly safe with a group like Iminime, which has an international reputation to keep up and prospects for being a major industry player. Yet despite that they still can't front the cost for their work without taking full payment several months in advance. In a sense, that's having your cake and eating it too, because the business is passing the risk to the customers. A massive financial or personal crisis could hit anyone. I think the forum has been relatively lucky with these issues for the last couple of years honestly.

 

[Mr.E]

That's absolutely true. Sometimes it scares me how some folks buy each and every figure that an artist releases.

I try to limit the amount of custom projects I commit to in general. Like you said, so many of them fall by the wayside or take much too long to reach the consumers. Sometimes the demand is incredibly high ("roaming" dead for example) that people get pissy about having to wait months on end for a product. Sometimes the demand isn't met.

I can only assume that some of the artists who do major custom runs do it as a full-time job. As is often the case, life get's in the way sometimes. If it happens enough times, they might lose their customers.

The risk always lives.

 

[EVILFACE]

Don't buy from people who don't have an established track record of delivering the goods.

And if the customizer even hints at having money problems, is always sick or has family members that are always sick, don't send them any money.

 

[Mr.E]

And drama too! Avoid drama at all costs. It seems like there's a lot of it going on recently.

 

[karamazov80]

You can't really avoid drama in the custom section unfortunately. It's EVERYWHERE

There was a recent scare for me when something was taking longer than anticipated, and health issues started coming up. . .I was having flashbacks. It all worked out thankfully, but I was starting to write off my money there.

 

[Mr.E]

You can't really avoid drama in the custom section unfortunately. It's EVERYWHERE

NOOOOO! Sad but true. Completely unnecessary too. Oh well!

 

[galactiboy]

But why can't the tweaks take place before the payment is received?


That works, until the established guys you order from also fail to deliver. That's what happened with DarkArtist and others in the past. He had accumulated a huge amount of all positive feedback, and then it all went south. You would think you might be fairly safe with a group like Iminime, which has an international reputation to keep up and prospects for being a major industry player. Yet despite that they still can't front the cost for their work without taking full payment several months in advance. In a sense, that's having your cake and eating it too, because the business is passing the risk to the customers. A massive financial or personal crisis could hit anyone. I think the forum has been relatively lucky with these issues for the last couple of years honestly.

Hell look at what happened/is happening with the Shrunken Head Studios Creepshow figure. They took a pre-order and required full payment... now a year and a half later it's unclear how the figures will get finished. Dooley's stated it will happen no matter what... but still taking money before a product is ready just seems like a bad idea no matter who you are.

 

[rhaykal]

My personal opinion is when getting in to customs (whether full figures or just bits/pieces) it helps knowing the artists track record by getting first hand feedback from other customers. I have paid and waited close to 9 months for customs but not once was I ever worried about being ripped off or angry that it took so long. In the end, buying anything from an individual is a risk. But the way I see it, as long as you as the buyer do as much research on the seller as possible you shouldnt have much to worry about at all.

 

[annihilate22]

I personally don't mind the wait if I'm getting something done from an established artist. Yes I know that many established artists have vanished but there are a couple here that are still reliable; but hey if you stop trusting people completely there isn't going to be any customizing cause they usually work on multiple pieces and are human after all with just two hands.

However, here's what I don't agree with - A mail once a month or in 20 days to the Artist (after communication from the Artist that progress is being made) taken as an offence. Now, there is a difference in hounding and a periodic email and I don't see how the latter is a headache. I mean if it isn't done or you weren't able to get to it, all you have to do is say it'll take a bit longer. 4-5 months is a good enough time for the client to ask for progress update twice a month right or is it being unreasonable ?

I wouldn't say I was burned, but I had a sour experience here once, where one project was completed and the parts for the 2nd (Confirmed) project were returned because it was too much of a pain receiving that email I spoke about earlier (and no I was not worried about getting ripped off at any point, I was excited cause it was my first ever full figure and it was commissioned for a certain purpose). Well thanks to that, I have $200 worth of parts rotting with me.

 

[TheFiend]

What happened with DarkArtist? I always hear about him? Was it a certain project /figure that went south and people found themselves out of money or was it a simultaneous mass burn?

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