Dark Empire Palpatine

[d_jedi1]

If SSC is going to delve into anything I wouldn't mind them going into Shadows of the Empire, get a Prince Xizor or Dash Rendar going. I loved that game, book and remember the LFL merchandising boom.

Agreed. Heck, I'd like to see Shadows of the Empire get a "clone wars" tv treatment

 

[MANDO]

Shadows figures would be great!

 

[Customikey]

I'd probably get the Dark Empire Palpy because The Emperor in all his many forms is my favorite character.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a Xizor at some point.

 

[lerath666]

those of you touting that Dark empire "killed" the ending of ROTJ for you. care to go into how exactly it does that?

 

[Customikey]

those of you touting that Dark empire "killed" the ending of ROTJ for you. care to go into how exactly it does that?

Yeah, I don't see that, either. I guess you might say it if you think it nullifies Vader's sacrifice, but I don't think it does. If Vader hadn't acted, then Luke would be dead.

And Luke's flirtation with, and subsequent rejection of, the Dark Side is a powerful reminder that just because he rejected it once in ROTJ, it doesn't mean it won't continually attempt to get a hold of him, just as anyone's dark side might.

If I take issue with anything in that series, it's the end of Empire's End, when the Emperor is finally and ignominiously brought down by a blaster bolt in the back and a Jedi that looks like MODOK.

Of course, even there, it's kind of cool knowing that Han Solo, of all people, kills the Emperor.

 

[sithlord13]

those of you touting that Dark empire "killed" the ending of ROTJ for you. care to go into how exactly it does that?

I don't know that I would say killed the end but If vader is to fufill any of he prophesy it requires palps and that line of sith to die and if he jumpsintp another body it doesn't

To be honest I dislike the whole way the eu created krayts one sith
But at least he is ultimately creating his own sith
- as referenced by the sith holocons on one issue

 

[Customikey]

I don't know that I would say killed the end but If vader is to fufill any of he prophesy it requires palps and that line of sith to die and if he jumpsintp another body it doesn't

To be honest I dislike the whole way the eu created krayts one sith
But at least he is ultimately creating his own sith
- as referenced by the sith holocons on one issue

I hated all that Prophesy crap. It takes choice and free will out of the occasion. Vader made a choice. He didn't try to fulfill some quasi-prophetical destiny. he made a HUMAN choice.

There are so many variations on what exactly that prophesy is anyway. "Balance to the Force" could imply the death of the Sith, the equalization of numbers between Jedi and Sith, the death of all Jedi and all Sith, or could have absolutely nothing to do with your religious affiliation whatsoever! God, I hate that stuff. If you're gonna lay out something like that and make it sound important, you should LAY IT OUT CLEARLY!! I know it engenders debate, but it just felt lazy.

 

[The Mike]

those of you touting that Dark empire "killed" the ending of ROTJ for you. care to go into how exactly it does that?

As I see it a Padawan has the option to go either way during their learning, they can go the way of the Jedi or be tempted by the power of the Sith. In the older times, a padawan has a mentor, someone to walk them through the journey and keep them in line. Luke had none of that. He was learning on his own with the ghost of Kenobi giving him tips and a real short time with Yoda. In theory it left him open more than anyone else to see the power of the Sith, the temptation of the dark side and embrace it, even if it were just to rid the galaxy of the Empire (we've seen that in the Anti-Hero model over and over in various other franchises). Even in his bleakest moments, he avoided it, cracking temporarily in his burst of anger against Vader but decides the light side of the Force instead, ridding himself once and for all of that temptation to which the Emperor attempts to kill him for the shunning and refusal.

By the end of ROTJ he is a Knight and has gone through the trials. To have a cloned Emperor return and have Luke be tempted again puts him back three steps and destroys the feeling that Luke despite not having the same benefit of the Knights of the Old Republic overcame the flirting with the dark side to be a Jedi in his own right. Dark Empire doesn't strengthen that IMHO it makes the end of ROTJ watered down because it makes it less powerful, less emotional and less relevant to the journey of Luke Skywalker himself. The original mold for Jedis were like Monks. They achieve oneness with the force through peace. Act only when prompted and never out of anger. I saw that in the end of ROTJ before Lucas changed them to feeble space cops.

That is of course removing the Vader aspect because when I was a kid up until 1999, Star Wars was about Luke Skywalker....

 

[bloodgear]

I hated all that Prophesy crap. It takes choice and free will out of the occasion. Vader made a choice. He didn't try to fulfill some quasi-prophetical destiny. he made a HUMAN choice

I really can't believe anyone sits their at the end battle or ROTJ seeing Vader lifting up Palps and thinking about the prophecy at that moment. It was always about Father and Son, a human choice, as you said.


Speaking of Shadows...I agree with Xizor and Rendar. I still remember the N64 game with fond memories. I'd even take a Snoova [But we'll never get that considering Chewbacca].

I just liked the Dark Empire designs. The Clone Emperor looked cool as did the Imperial Sentinels.

 

[Customikey]

Does anyone remember that painting that was in SW Insider several years ago? I think it was a Dave Dorman.

Had all the major Imperial leaders in it? Emperor, Vader, Tarkin, Thrawn, Daala, and the clone Emperor?

 

[Darth_Fatso]

I don't think I'd pick up a Dark Empire Palpatine but I'm still waiting for SS to make a 1/6 of Darth Revan, Malak and Nihilus. Even Darth Bane would be pretty cool too.

 

[devilof76]

When they make a PT Yoda, I might get one to customize into a Sith Yoda from Dark Rendezvous. Easily the greatest moment in the entire EU.

I can't think of any other film character that I'd want an EU version of though.

 

[Spiker]

Easy pass for me, as everyting EU or PT.

 

[Lord Exor]

I'll never understand the abject and myopic hate of both the EU and the PT.

Anyway, here is another neat image of both Palpatine and Luke.

 

[Kamandi]

I'll never understand the abject and myopic hate of both the EU and the PT.

I've read some decent EU stuff, and there's also been some crap. I'm only drawn to the stuff after Jedi. I don't give a crap about some no-names 14,000 YBANH. But a few of the comics and books set in Luke, Han and Leia's future have been pretty decent.

I'd guess some of the hostility towards the later EU is their concepts regarding the Jedi don't always jive with the PT.

I liked the Zahn books. I thought the first year or so of Star Wars Legacy was good. I liked Dark Empire when it came out, but I wasn't a huge fan of the artist Cam Kennedy.

 

[FQRizzo]

I'll never understand the abject and myopic hate of both the EU and the PT.

Anyway, here is another neat image of both Palpatine and Luke.

Didn't anyone watch ROTJ? Seriously.

 

[pixletwin]

those of you touting that Dark empire "killed" the ending of ROTJ for you. care to go into how exactly it does that?

I think "killed" is a bit of an exaggeration, but my posts and a few others were pretty clear why. Feel free to read them.

 

[lerath666]

As I see it a Padawan has the option to go either way during their learning, they can go the way of the Jedi or be tempted by the power of the Sith. In the older times, a padawan has a mentor, someone to walk them through the journey and keep them in line. Luke had none of that. He was learning on his own with the ghost of Kenobi giving him tips and a real short time with Yoda. In theory it left him open more than anyone else to see the power of the Sith, the temptation of the dark side and embrace it, even if it were just to rid the galaxy of the Empire (we've seen that in the Anti-Hero model over and over in various other franchises). Even in his bleakest moments, he avoided it, cracking temporarily in his burst of anger against Vader but decides the light side of the Force instead, ridding himself once and for all of that temptation to which the Emperor attempts to kill him for the shunning and refusal.

By the end of ROTJ he is a Knight and has gone through the trials. To have a cloned Emperor return and have Luke be tempted again puts him back three steps and destroys the feeling that Luke despite not having the same benefit of the Knights of the Old Republic overcame the flirting with the dark side to be a Jedi in his own right. Dark Empire doesn't strengthen that IMHO it makes the end of ROTJ watered down because it makes it less powerful, less emotional and less relevant to the journey of Luke Skywalker himself. The original mold for Jedis were like Monks. They achieve oneness with the force through peace. Act only when prompted and never out of anger. I saw that in the end of ROTJ before Lucas changed them to feeble space cops.

That is of course removing the Vader aspect because when I was a kid up until 1999, Star Wars was about Luke Skywalker....

Didn't anyone watch ROTJ? Seriously.

I thought that might be it. Luke isn't tempted by the dark side. Go back and re-read those comics.

Here is a cliffnotes version.

Luke discovers the emperor is still alive.
He has a holy crap moment, and decides to try a gamble, and Lies to the emperor.Luke lies about becoming the emperor's servant and replacing his father.
He does this to get close to palpatine, discover HOW he came back, and find a way to stop it.
While executing his plan, luke is forced to do terrible things inorder to "maintain his cover".
The emperor knows he's bluffing, but relies on the seductive nature of the dark side, and the acts luke is being forced to commit to turn him.

As the ends do not justify the means, all that time spent in a den of evil starts to have an effect on luke, and he Slowly starts to fall to the dark side over a period of time. He doesn't even realize it.

In the end, Leia Faces luke and brings him to his senses, and together they turn on the emperor.

the "jedi moral" of the story?

"the dark side is ALWAYS there. just because you outwardly reject it once, it can still creep into you like a disease if you're not careful. Constant vigilance is the only way to keep it at bay. Anyone, at any time may slip. "

Just because Luke Rejects the dark side and becomes a knight, he's not immune to the dark side. anakin was a knight, he became a sith lord. Same with Dooku.

 

[lerath666]

I think "killed" is a bit of an exaggeration, but my posts and a few others were pretty clear why. Feel free to read them.

Just did, and I still disagree. Yes, the clone emperor bit is a bit silly, but the concept of "spirt hopping" does mesh with Palpatines obsession with immortality, so I'm willing to give it a pass.

 

[lerath666]

I'll never understand the abject and myopic hate of both the EU and the PT.

Anyway, here is another neat image of both Palpatine and Luke.

Damnit i love that artwork.