Dark Empire Palpatine

[The Mike]

It difficult to make the Anakin argument to this because Dark Empire was released even before Lucas released of the fall of Anakin Skywalker in the prequels being released in 1991 (I am firmly in the camp that believes the prequels were an afterthought not part of an original story like he claims).

Here is the thing. From the official database:

Skywalker, realizing that the Emperor was almost invincible, knelt before him, and agreed to join the dark side.

Like a few others in recorded history, Luke believed he could defeat the dark side from within by learning its secrets. He had neglected one of Yoda's key teachings -- never underestimate the power of the dark side. Skywalker, consumed by the darkness, found himself unable to break away from its pall. Though he succeeded in covertly sabotaging a number of Palpatine's plans, he could not bring himself back to the light. With the help of his sister, however, Skywalker was able to turn against his master. Together, the Jedi twins were eventually able to defeat Palpatine once and for all.

So what you post is correct not just cliff's notes but as the official site lists, only that him not being tempted is simply a semantical point. The fact is that his spurning of the dark side, his following the path of the light and showing he is a true Jedi uncorruptable unlike his father is destroyed by Dark Empire.

Remember in 1991, there is no Dooku, there is no Anakin as we know him now. There was Obi-Wan, the sage who spoke about Anakin's falling as his great failure but also made it sound and feel unique which is what made Vader so ominous and powerful because he was a rogue evil Jedi. Obi-Wan makes the Jedi seem almost spiritual in their relation with the force again like I said, like monks. Dark Empire takes a dump on that any way you look at it, it removes that search for enlightenment and valor that Luke achieved, a trait of many of the Asian films that Lucas was inspired from not to mention the mythologies, and makes Luke just another corruptible person. We don't see Luke as the next Obi-Wan anymore, as the next Jedi Priest if you will but as a man who fell to his arrogance in thinking he could overcome what his father couldn't, what Yoda warned him of and what Obi-Wan fought to protect him from.

The prequels makes it all easier to shallow, almost poetic ironically because Luke takes the path of Anakin Skywalker only with excellent results because of the love of his sister, a person who could reach Luke where Obi-Wan could not for Anakin or even Padme.

The thing is that back in 1991 it put a bad taste in my mouth for the reasons I posted, and the passage of time doesn't really make it any better. The prequels make it almost logical but Star Wars for me isn't Episode 1-6 but Episode 1-3 and then Episodes 4-6. Meaning Lucas destroyed a lot of the mythos, the cool fan interpretation of the Jedi of the Old Republic, of the Sith, of the way the galaxy was before the Empire, the more civilized time even took away the fact that the protagionist in the saga was Luke and now making him simply a catalyst for Anakin's redemption.

I can enjoy the prequels for what they are but I hold tight to the Star Wars of my childhood when Jedis were Zen and the farmboy was the champion. Should be easy to understand why some don't like it and while its not really worth trying to change perception where I go back and read the comics or not, it really is a matter of whether or not you allow the fluidity of the franchise to flow. For some its only 1-6, for some its the entire EU, for me Dark Empire doesn't need figures but I can appreciate those who like it as my post was simply in response to the request of why I don't like it.

 

[Entropy]

Remember in 1991, there is no Dooku, there is no Anakin as we know him now. There was Obi-Wan, the sage who spoke about Anakin's falling as his great failure but also made it sound and feel unique which is what made Vader so ominous and powerful because he was a rogue evil Jedi. Obi-Wan makes the Jedi seem almost spiritual in their relation with the force again like I said, like monks. Dark Empire takes a dump on that any way you look at it, it removes that search for enlightenment and valor that Luke achieved, a trait of many of the Asian films that Lucas was inspired from not to mention the mythologies, and makes Luke just another corruptible person. We don't see Luke as the next Obi-Wan anymore, as the next Jedi Priest if you will but as a man who fell to his arrogance in thinking he could overcome what his father couldn't, what Yoda warned him of and what Obi-Wan fought to protect him from.

The prequels makes it all easier to shallow, almost poetic ironically because Luke takes the path of Anakin Skywalker only with excellent results because of the love of his sister, a person who could reach Luke where Obi-Wan could not for Anakin or even Padme.

The thing is that back in 1991 it put a bad taste in my mouth for the reasons I posted, and the passage of time doesn't really make it any better. The prequels make it almost logical but Star Wars for me isn't Episode 1-6 but Episode 1-3 and then Episodes 4-6. Meaning Lucas destroyed a lot of the mythos, the cool fan interpretation of the Jedi of the Old Republic, of the Sith, of the way the galaxy was before the Empire, the more civilized time even took away the fact that the protagionist in the saga was Luke and now making him simply a catalyst for Anakin's redemption.

I can enjoy the prequels for what they are but I hold tight to the Star Wars of my childhood when Jedis were Zen and the farmboy was the champion. Should be easy to understand why some don't like it and while its not really worth trying to change perception where I go back and read the comics or not, it really is a matter of whether or not you allow the fluidity of the franchise to flow. For some its only 1-6, for some its the entire EU, for me Dark Empire doesn't need figures but I can appreciate those who like it as my post was simply in response to the request of why I don't like it.

 

[Khev]

According to Gary Kurtz ROTJ was never going to be the end of the saga. Vader was going to die but Luke and his Jedi sister (not Leia) were supposed to meet and join forces in Episodes 7, 8, and 9, defeating the Emperor at the end of the last trilogy. Remember in TESB Obi-Wan acts as if he's unaware of Luke's sister until Yoda enlightens him on Dagobah.

But ROTJ took a dump on all that by conveniently making Leia the lost twin and ending the saga. If Dark Empire takes a dump on the rushed finale of ROTJ then I just may have to give it a read....

 

[Darth Madden]

I'd much rather have Darth Revan than Dark Emperor.

 

[pixletwin]

According to Gary Kurtz ROTJ was never going to be the end of the saga. Vader was going to die but Luke and his Jedi sister (not Leia) were supposed to meet and join forces in Episodes 7, 8, and 9, defeating the Emperor at the end of the last trilogy. Remember in TESB Obi-Wan acts as if he's unaware of Luke's sister until Yoda enlightens him on Dagobah.

But ROTJ took a dump on all that by conveniently making Leia the lost twin and ending the saga. If Dark Empire takes a dump on the rushed finale of ROTJ then I just may have to give it a read....

I think RotJ has a far more satisfying ending than that bloated mess would have been.

And yes, I would rather have a Darth Revan too.

 

[Entropy]

an ewok-less, 2nd death star-less RotJ where Han dies, Leia struggles with being Queen, and Luke walks off in the desert Man with No Name style, as Kurtz said they had originally outlined, would have been preferable to the watered down final film we got.

but again, with some of the stuff they've already made & the willingness of SW collectors to buy almost anything, if this line continues to sell well, I figure we'll see DE and other EU stuff eventually.

Bring on Bespin Ice Cream Man!

 

[Kamandi]

Revenge of the Jedi as Kurtz described would have at least elicited more from the actor's performances. They all seemed to phone it in for Jedi, especially Ford. After waiting for three years to see Han rescued Jedi was such a let down.

Too bad Kurtz and Lucas had a falling out. Lucas surrounds himself with sycophants rather than people who might help craft a decent story.

 

[lerath666]

According to Gary Kurtz ROTJ was never going to be the end of the saga. Vader was going to die but Luke and his Jedi sister (not Leia) were supposed to meet and join forces in Episodes 7, 8, and 9, defeating the Emperor at the end of the last trilogy. Remember in TESB Obi-Wan acts as if he's unaware of Luke's sister until Yoda enlightens him on Dagobah.

But ROTJ took a dump on all that by conveniently making Leia the lost twin and ending the saga. If Dark Empire takes a dump on the rushed finale of ROTJ then I just may have to give it a read....

 

[lerath666]

I think RotJ has a far more satisfying ending than that bloated mess would have been.

And yes, I would rather have a Darth Revan too.

considering the guys responsable for Empire strikes back would have had a hand in the making of that version of 6,7,8, and 9 if he had not gone over to go and make Dark Crystal, are you so sure?


But i digress. Now, since you mentioned Darth Revan, which version would you want? the Cannon Version ( female) or a male version?

clarification:
I consider the female version Canon, as when you start up Kotor two, and are asked about Revan, the game States Revan was a woman, who in the end gave in to her darker emotions. but then fled the galaxy for unknown reasons.

 

[EVILFACE]

I'll never understand the abject and myopic hate of both the EU and the PT.

Anyway, here is another neat image of both Palpatine and Luke.

How creative. They put Luke's head on Vaders body

 

[lerath666]

lets not forget that those coimcs were written before Kevin j anderson came up with the concept of the sith. ( THINK it was kevin j anderson)

Vader was all we knew about "evil jedi"

 

[karamazov80]

How creative. They put Luke's head on Vaders body

"Evil" doppleganger stuff was kind of neat when they did it with the Justice League or Star Trek back in the 60s. Now, it is usually lazy and stupid.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

considering the guys responsable for Empire strikes back would have had a hand in the making of that version of 6,7,8, and 9 if he had not gone over to go and make Dark Crystal, are you so sure?


But i digress. Now, since you mentioned Darth Revan, which version would you want? the Cannon Version ( female) or a male version?

clarification:
I consider the female version Canon, as when you start up Kotor two, and are asked about Revan, the game States Revan was a woman, who in the end gave in to her darker emotions. but then fled the galaxy for unknown reasons.

Actually canon Revan is male. He's is male in the KOTOR comics aswell. That part of KOTOR 2 Atton refers to Revan as a she but you also have the option to "correct" him. Either way Revan wore heavy robes and armor and a mask that disguse what sex he/she is but Revan is canonically male.

 

[lerath666]

You can, but that's only to be able to change the "official" history to make it match your original gameplay. so when you talk to people about Revan, what people say matches what you originally did.

and game canon > comic canon. Least to me.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

Comic canon is still canon (unless it's the Infinties stuff). Revan been confirmed as male. Even most of the Essentail Guides refer to Revan as a "him" or "he". According to wookiepedia even the Lucas Film officials confirmed Revan as male. Still I understand liking a character like Revan as a certain gender. I allways like to think Jaden Korr from Jedi Academy as a Twi'lek female even though Jaden has been confirmed as a human male.

 

[kl241]

Comic canon isn't Movie Canon. If it didn't happen in the movies, it never happened.

 

[lerath666]

Food for thought, there is a male jedi in the comics they drop hints at who MIGHT be revan, but they never come out and say it.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

I belive guessing refering to the Revanchist leader who is infact Revan. They actually did a story on how Revan got his mask in the KOTOR comics.

 

[lerath666]

Again, show me where they show you Revan in the comics as a man, and not simply drop hints. show you the back of the head, or Revan with a hood up.

as for wookiepedia, it can be edited by anyone, just like any wiki, so it's suspect.

If I'm wrong, show me a reference and i'll stand down, but AFAIK, they don't , Definitively show Revan as either.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

Well by that logic show me where it states Revan is canonically female as you say. The part you were refering to in KOTOR2 where Atton calls Revan a "she" was put there so the player can choose which gender Revan will be referred as throughout the rest of the game. As for my proof I'll admit I have none other than wookipedia and the fact that most reference books refer to Revan as being a male aswell as most pics seem to show him as male too. I'm assuming the "male jedi in the comics they drop hints at who MIGHT be revan" you were refering to is Alek/Malek's master the Revanchist leader or are you talking about someone else? If were taliking about the same character, the Revanchist has allredy become Revan. There was even a comic that showed how he got his iconic mask.