David Ayer's Academy Award winning "Suicide Squad"

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

That's true, but nothing about this Joker made him seem to me like the kind of threat that Ledger Joker was, or Nicholson, or the cartoon or comic version. The only really unpredictable thing I recall Joker doing was shooting the guy who didn't want to have sex with Harley. The rest was pretty by the numbers. But the reason the Joker is such an adversary is how he is unconventional, unpredictable, has no real limits on what he'll do or who he'll do it to (Joker's emotional bond to Harley makes this problematic), and stands for things that are so antithetical to Batman's world view. In Suicide Squad he's just shown as a slightly unpredictable criminal, like Tuco in Breaking Bad.

I've read a few people likening the Snyder Luthor more to what Joker should be than Leto Joker, and so far I think I would agree with that.

I think it comes down to his relevance to the story but of course it's impossible to determine his threat level based on his appearance in SS.

I'd only compare him to BvS Luthor by saying Joker is less abrasive to watch. BvS Luthor was more comparable to Tommy Lee Jones Two-Face - another character inappropriately doing a vague Joker impersonation when an informed portrayal of the actual character he was playing would have been preferable.

Current comic Joker beat the crap out of Batman in H2H combat. Maybe Letoker is that good of a fighter. Even Ledger had some good fighting skills, since he easily killed a guy with a pencil.

I don't think Ledger Joker had fighting skills but definitely keyed into the unpredictability Kara mentioned.

I've come to appreciate the LEdger Joker a lot more since TDK came out. I still think he's awkwardly incongruous with the established "reality" but he gets by on the "rule of cool."

I also really dig the comic idea of the Joker as possibly an immortal or recurring part of Gotham city that (the other) Snyder toyed with.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

He's the only cinematic Joker to break into a SuperSuperSuperMax Prison just to get a woman back.

How unthreatening is he again?

Yeah and with the leverage he had over seemingly anyone he needed it appeared that nothing was inaccessible or off limits to him, including even Amanda Waller's top secret and impenetrable prison and its employees. He was obviously very slippery, even for Batman, would murder men he spoke to as equals just for paying him a compliment, torture a woman immediately after she alone helped him escape, and would inject bombs into the necks of random scientists just for the fun of it. Yet the one guard who abused Harley in prison allegedly lived. He takes and spares lives with seemingly no rhyme or reason. Worked for me.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I don't think there's anything random about Letoker or most Jokers. Leto didnt killed the prison guard or the scientist because he needed them to save Harley. Even the club guy got killed because of Harley.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I don't think there's anything random about Letoker or most Jokers.

Obviously I disagree. And as a supposed romantic counterpart to Harley Quinn he sure had a funny way of showing his affecion. Torturing her, attempting to murder her then changing his mind but still relishing her disfiguring transformation, and then of course conducting the most reckless "rescue" in history. All I saw was a crazy who wasn't going to lose his plaything unless it was on his own terms.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I loved how the jokers plan was all thought out, but at the end he needed to have some fun.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Obviously I disagree. And as a supposed romantic counterpart to Harley Quinn he sure had a funny way of showing his affecion. Torturing her, attempting to murder her then changing his mind but still relishing her disfiguring transformation, and then of course conducting the most reckless "rescue" in history. All I saw was a crazy who wasn't going to lose his plaything unless it was on his own terms.

I loved how the jokers plan was all thought out, but at the end he needed to have some fun.

He even did grand theft of a US military special forces helicopter with a functioning 50 cal.

But yeah he's no threat.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Breaks out of captivity by talking to people.

Not that sewing a phone-activated explosive into a goon on the off chance he'll survive your violent attack and be kept in the same facility isn't also scary. In an omniscient, convoluted sort of way.

 

[crows]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Obviously I disagree. And as a supposed romantic counterpart to Harley Quinn he sure had a funny way of showing his affecion. Torturing her, attempting to murder her then changing his mind but still relishing her disfiguring transformation, and then of course conducting the most reckless "rescue" in history. All I saw was a crazy who wasn't going to lose his plaything unless it was on his own terms.

Thats because they were going to make their relationship a very abusive one at first but then they deleted so much from the movie. The proof of that is the scene where joker slaps harley . ,

Then they edited the movie to high hell and decided to make their relationship more lovey dovey and more of a hot topic toxic romance kind of thing
They filmed an abusive story and they edited to be a loving one.

Another proof is how joker was meant to throw harley of the plane

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

He even did grand theft of a US military special forces helicopter with a functioning 50 cal.

But yeah he's no threat.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It was an abusive relationship that they edited to still be an abusive relationship.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Thats because they were going to make their relationship a very abusive one at first but then they deleted so much from the movie. The proof of that is the scene where joker slaps harley . ,

Then they edited the movie to high hell and decided to make their relationship more lovey dovey and more of a hot topic toxic romance kind of thing
They filmed an abusive story and they edited to be a loving one.

Joker slapping Harley as well as her putting the gun up to his head isn't a deleted scene. it's in the movie.

that video where Joker is going to give H the ************* is shot by someone off set. we have no idea if the scene was shot the way it's in the film with quick cuts and that's how it was intended to be, or if it was a full scene between the two.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It was an abusive relationship that they edited to still be an abusive relationship.

pretty much. doesn't make much she's does it? the film states pretty clearly that the relationship is abusive.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

He even did grand theft of a US military special forces helicopter with a functioning 50 cal.

But yeah he's no threat. [emoji38]

All it seems he did is threaten or blackmail people, and presumably pay people off, though. Again, pretty conventional stuff by Joker standards. He just had a lot of capable thugs. Is any of that not something Tuco from Breaking Bad, Hans Gruber, or Blackmask would do?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

 

[kryptonianmutie]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

He reminds me of a young Zack Snyder.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It was an abusive relationship that they edited to still be an abusive relationship.

Definitely. Obviously some people saw a completely different movie.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

All it seems he did is threaten or blackmail people, and presumably pay people off, though. Again, pretty conventional stuff by Joker standards. He just had a lot of capable thugs. Is any of that not something Tuco from Breaking Bad, Hans Gruber, or Blackmask would do?

he "offers" Harley to the thug, then murders him.
he threatens the guard with his life, so he can get a celly to Harley.
he breaks into the science building with a joker present
he implants the docs neck with a nanobomb, so he can bend him as he wishes. (what happened to him I wonder)
jacks a heli and ****s **** up.
busts INTO then out of belle reve with Harley.

so what people did he threaten and pay off? I don't remeber tuco spraying his machine gun and laughing.

 

[Khev]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

Breaks out of captivity by talking to people.

In some ways that actually makes him scarier than Ledger. He's basically the villain from Jessica Jones but without actually needing any superpowers. Yikes.

 

[crows]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

It was an abusive relationship that they edited to still be an abusive relationship.

An abusive relationship where joker is fully in love with harley
Thats different, joker is not meant to be in love with her like that.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: DC's "Suicide Squad" (August 5th, 2016)

I don't find Letoker scary or random at all. There was a reason for his actions and his plan was well thought out. The club guy got killed for showing interest in Harley, so Joker killed him. While his actions were extreme, there was nothing random about it. He then spends the rest of the film searching for Harley and everything he does has a purpose, so again nothing random. The people he doesn't kill serve a purpose too. I find his actions and motivation very pedestrian in the film. However, there's nothing wrong with Joker having a plan, since the best Joker stories often have a Joker with a well thought plan, and a specific goal. I'm just not a fan of Letoker's goal in the film.

As far as the "abusive" relationship goes, most if not all of the abuse shown in the film came before they were a couple, before they were in a relationship. Before they were a couple Joker used her, tortured her, and tried to get rid of her just like he would do with anyone else. However, once Joker "makes" Harley and they become the "King and Queen of Gotham " the film doesn't really show an abusive relationship.

In fact, it does the opposite by showing a Joker that "would do anything for Harley", even risking his life in several occasions to save her. Unless the Joker's grape soda contains EX LAX in it and it gives Harley explosive diarrhea and the bear rug has flees, I wouldn't call the relationship abusive....not when the worst thing he does is risk his life for her. It's far from normal, but compared to Lex killing his "Harley" in BVS and not giving a crap, Joker looks like a sick love puppy, and someone you can easily manipulate and get to by getting Harley.