Dexter Discussion Thread *Spoilers*

[die]

Here's a question ....

How do we know Dexter was even meant to be a killer?

He had a history of cruelty to animals, I work with adolescents in a treatment facility and deal with that stuff daily, it's more common than anybody would even like to believe. Cruelty to animals is a definite red flag, but not a deciding factor. I've counseled kids on it, some of them spend many years getting help, into their young adulthood, some deal with it at an early age and realize it's motivation is not based on homicidal tendencies. Harry though, just using a cop's instinct, decides that Dexter is destined to be a killer and decides to teach him how to kill in a way he felt could benefit society in a way he wished he could. His first victim was Harry's nurse, who was trying to kill him. Was Dexter protecting the one person who knew his secret or just killing because he wanted to kill?


No blame should be placed on Harry? Has the question even been answered: Did Harry actually turn Dexter into a killer for his own selfish reasons?

Huh!? No. Slicing the victim's cheek to get a blood sample trophy and stabbing them through the heart = inflicting pain. Getting stabbed in the heart with a big ass knife is NOT painless. And death is NOT instantaneous.

The cheek slice is with a thin razor sharp surgical blade...ever cut yourself with an X-acto knife? Pretty much...Same thing, I did it last week, bled like hell, didn't really even feel pain from it.. but I do have a fairly strong feeling that it's nothing like waterboarding or the iron maiden. I mean you ever see one of Dexter's victims after they're cut? AWWWWHHHHH MY FAAAAACCECCCEEEE, NOOOO, JUST DO IT, KILLLL MEEE NOOWWWWW!!!! and then, when he does kill them, it's an immediately fatal stab to the heart as he has explained...again, who was it the posed the question "Are we even all watching the same show?"

Then he should've already stopped killing. Because he already found and killed the guy responsible for his mothers death. Again, that event is NOT why Dexter is a serial killer.

Have you even been watching this season? As he explained to Lumen several times that once you get revenge, you don't become satisfied. Rambo said the same thing, you don't kill for your country, you realize you kill for you. Batman explained to Robin that it he murdered the person responsible for his parents deaths, that it wouldn't be enough once he was on that path. Yoda told Luke the same thing....Did the Punisher (another vigilante) just get revenge on the people responsible for his familys deaths or did he go after all criminals? What about Spider-Man and his Uncle's killer? But yeah, I guess I see your point

Unless he screws up and THINKS you're "guilty" when you're really not. Or if you're rude to him in a gas station bathroom. Right?

I made that very point earlier, did you not see it? The funny thing to me about it (and what re-inforces the validity of my question earlier) is why did Harry tell him it's the first "human" thing he's seen him do since Rita's death?

Because Dexter is not a vigilante. He's a serial killer.

Vigilante: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

https://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante



Serial Killer: serial killer
n
a person who carries out a series of murders

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/serial+killer


So the difference is that there is "justice" involved, correct?




P.S.- Han shot first.

 

[Superman]

I think Dexter represents the Dark Side of us all.
I'm sure most of us read or see something on TV about some scumbag who raped or murdered innocents, maybe both, and secretly fantasied about making them suffer in some way, maybe even want to kill them. Most would be incapable of doing this because of the way we are conditioned, so we enjoy watching characters on TV acting out this fantasy for us.

I care for the Dexter character, because he does wish he could be free of his killing addiction. For me that would be the best way to end the show. Dexter actually beats the addiction, the one thing that has controlled his life since he was born in blood

As for Dexter killing "innocent people", lets have a look at them
Prado's Brother, Drug dealer who put Dexter into a Kill or be Killed situation
The Pedo, Good Riddance I say, Dexter killed him because he was a danger to Astor
The Photographer (Probably the only one in the list who I feel sorry for) a nasty piece of work who did not deserve to die, but it was a genuine mistake by Dexter
The Gas Station guy, once again he did not deserve to die, but that guy was so in Dexter's face who knows what he was prepared to do. If you go around acting like that guy did, somebody is sure to at least put you in hospital for a long time.
Liddy/Robocop, Kill or be Killed again in my opinion. Liddy did not care about saving lives by arresting Dexter, he just wanted to get his job back, and he got burned for his selfish act.

So is Dexter a good guy? Not really. He's more what you call an Anti-Hero, because Dexter never asked to be a Serial Killer, that choice was made for him by the men who chainsawed his mother to pieces, and Harry's teachings

Yeah, I felt sorry for Liddy getting killed. He was doing what his job was up until he was terminated. I would have rather seen Dexter though blow off his arms and legs...oh wait a minute.. wrong movie.. lol..

Interesting season..Not as good as the last one, however I like Lumen's character in this one. Apart from the scene where Dexter punches his daughters friends father in super-human fashion, Dexter is more fallable this season after Rita's death and is showing more emotion than ever. The finale will be very interesting to say the least..

 

[ShadowX81]

That would be terrible because it's unrealistic and never happens. Serial Killers don't stop killing unless they die, go to prison for life, go to prison for an unrelated crime (which causes a break in the cycle of killings) or they change their M.O. to avoid detection. They don't just up and stop one day.

I completly agree with you that it would be a lame ending, but just playing devil's advocate here:

Why not? Serial killers might never reform, but who says they can't ever stop killing. If they did just up and stop, then it means we never caught them, so we would never know about it.

And the Zodiac killer apparently just up and stopped, as we have never caught him but there were no more murders.

 

[Devil_666]

How do we know Dexter was even meant to be a killer? Cruelty to animals is a definite red flag, but not a deciding factor.

True. But coupled with the trauma of his mom dying that single red flag becomes more. Yes kids can be cruel to animals and end up perfectly normal as adults. But when you take into account Dexter's past and THEN factor in him also killing/abusing animals it's not just "typical kid behavior".

No blame should be placed on Harry? Has the question even been answered: Did Harry actually turn Dexter into a killer for his own selfish reasons?

Harry did not turn Dexter into a serial killer. Dexter's brother experienced the same trauma and turned out to be a serial killer too. Only difference: without Harry's mentoring he killed random, innocent people. The only thing Harry did with Dexter is he taught him to select "criminals" for his victims to avoid detection/attention from the cops. Dexter was going to kill regardless.

when he does kill them, it's an immediately fatal stab to the heart as he has explained...

Death from a knife wound to the heart is NOT instantaneous and painless. You might wanna do some minor research on that. The only organ in your entire body that can cause instantaneous death when severely damaged is your brain. "Fatal" does not = painless. Which is what you originally said and what I originally responded to.

why did Harry tell him it's the first "human" thing he's seen him do since Rita's death?

Really!? Ironic considering you said..

who was it the posed the question "Are we even all watching the same show?"

That's not really Harry bro. That's Dexter's self-conscious. So Harry didn't say anything to Dexter.

So the difference is that there is "justice" involved, correct?

No. Just No.

Serial Killer. Key word there is KILLER. You don't have to kill, EVER, to be considered a vigilante. For example the Guardian Angels are considered vigilantes. They kill people? No, right? And if you wanna go fantasy, Batman is also considered a vigilante. Batman murders people? Didn't think so.

P.S.- Han shot first.

 

[DinoLast]

That would be terrible because it's unrealistic and never happens. Serial Killers don't stop killing unless they die, go to prison for life, go to prison for an unrelated crime (which causes a break in the cycle of killings) or they change their M.O. to avoid detection. They don't just up and stop one day.

Sorry, but there are cases of Serial Killers who stop killing other than the reasons you give

Myth: Serial Killers Cannot Stop Killing
Sometimes circumstances will change in a serial killer's life causing them to stop killing before they are caught. The FBI report said the circumstances can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions.

•Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, murdered 10 people from 1974 to 1991 and then did not kill again until he was caught in 2005. He told investigators that he engaged in auto-erotic activities to substitute for killing.

Anyway I'm sure we all have differing opinions of the Character, especially as he's a work of fiction. It's not really for me to say who is right and who is wrong.
Some people see Hannibal Lecter as a Hero. At the end of the day it's up to the individual Viewer or Reader to decided if he is or if he's not.

 

[Devil_666]

Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, murdered 10 people from 1974 to 1991 and then did not kill again until he was caught in 2005. He told investigators that he engaged in auto-erotic activities to substitute for killing.

Nope.

Rader also admitted in his interrogation that he was planning to kill again. He had even set a date, October 2004, and was stalking his intended victim.

Like I said.. serial killers never just stop.

 

[ShadowX81]

And as I said. Zodiac Killer.

Never caught. No more murders. Therefore he stopped.

 

[Devil_666]

And as I said. Zodiac Killer.

Never caught. No more murders. Therefore he stopped.

And as I said, there's no proof that the Zodiac Killer "stopped". He could've died, could've gone to prison for an unrelated crime and died in there, could have changed his M.O. to avoid detection or one theory could be correct: The Zodiac Killer wasn't a single individual, but a group. There's no proof of a Serial Killer that killed multiple people suddenly stopping and being cured of that desire.

 

[ShadowX81]

Mostly becuase if they stopped it means they never got caught and we never heard of them.

 

[DinoLast]

Nope.



Like I said.. serial killers never just stop.

It also so say in the FBI Report that they do.
God you're like a dog with a bone.

 

[Devil_666]

 

[die]

True. But coupled with the trauma of his mom dying that single red flag becomes more. Yes kids can be cruel to animals and end up perfectly normal as adults. But when you take into account Dexter's past and THEN factor in him also killing/abusing animals it's not just "typical kid behavior".

It's never "typical kid behavior", that's why it's called a red flag. Dexter suffers from PTSD, which is treatable, but Harry taught him to lie to anybody who tried to help him. How do we know progess could'nt have been made? Because he's actually making progress now. In his effort to "fake" human emotions, he started to develop them. I mean does anybody believe he has never cared for anybody?

Harry did not turn Dexter into a serial killer. Dexter's brother experienced the same trauma and turned out to be a serial killer too. Only difference: without Harry's mentoring he killed random, innocent people. The only thing Harry did with Dexter is he taught him to select "criminals" for his victims to avoid detection/attention from the cops. Dexter was going to kill regardless.

Exactly, because Harry turned Dexter into a vigilante. Bryan never had that "privilege". Also he remembered things Dexter did not remember.

Death from a knife wound to the heart is NOT instantaneous and painless. You might wanna do some minor research on that. The only organ in your entire body that can cause instantaneous death when severely damaged is your brain. "Fatal" does not = painless. Which is what you originally said and what I originally responded to.

Research?

Here...let me Google that for you....

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=aorta+severed+instant+death


Argue if you like, it's been explained in the show & can be explained through medical science. But to prove the severity of your stubborness I'm hitting you with the "dreaded triple-headslap-to-dunno fakie"

That's not really Harry bro. That's Dexter's self-conscious. So Harry didn't say anything to Dexter.

Actually read what I wrote. I already said Harry is a manifestation of Dexter's conscience. Harry is the one who gave Dexter a conscience, so that's what he visualizes. The question needs to be answered as to why was Dexter's conscience ok with what he did? When "harry" appears, Dexter says what?

You don't know, so I'll tell you: "I thought you left me".

Which translates into, Dexter thought he "lost it"...much like one of us would do if somebody murdered somebody we truly loved. We all have the capacity to lose touch with our conscience and go full caveman on somebody under the right circumstances, we just all have different limits.

make sense now?

No. Just No.

Serial Killer. Key word there is KILLER. You don't have to kill, EVER, to be considered a vigilante. For example the Guardian Angels are considered vigilantes. They kill people? No, right? And if you wanna go fantasy, Batman is also considered a vigilante. Batman murders people? Didn't think so.

Guardian Angels are your example?

What are the Salvation Army? Extortionists???

Again, you should actually read my posts instead of trying to twist something to your advantage. In my comparison of him to a vigilante, I said "he does the detective work of Batman" and the "executions of the Punisher". Is that not easy enough to grasp? I also mentioned how it was even highlighted with The Dark Defender angle in the show, remember now? A direct reference to such comic figures.

Batman doesn't murder people? Are you sure???

Didn't you see Batman Begins? Try this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZEvGaU0NHs

Yeah, I was just kidding, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7xtHCBMi6Q&feature=fvsr

Ok, I know that's probably a more contraversial topic than the one that we are actually currently discussing, but it's possible that the only reason Bruce Wayne threw that gun away was because he didn't have a cop teaching him the benefits of murdering bad guys, disposing of the bodies and perfecting the art of not getting caught

now I ask...

DO YOU YIELD, SIR???

 

[Devil_666]

Dexter suffers from PTSD, which is treatable

Lots of people suffer from PTSD and don't become Serial Killers. Lots of people suffer through horrific, life altering events that make Dexter's "born in blood" incident look tame in comparison and guess what, they don't become Serial Killers. It's not just the event bro. It's the person.

Exactly, because Harry turned Dexter into a vigilante.

No. Harry insured that Dexter's Serial Killings would appear to be the work of a vigilante. But again, Dexter is NOT a vigilante. He's sick in the head and kills for his own twisted enjoyment and pleasure. He takes trophies from his victims and chops up their bodies to avoid detection.

Argue if you like, it's been explained in the show & can be explained through medical science.

The only trauma that can cause instantaneous death i.e. 100% painless (like you originally said) is trauma to the brain. Decapitation, a GSW, etc. the victim would feel no pain because they wouldn't have a brain to TELL THEM they were in pain. A severed aorta (which is what you linked) STILL takes seconds to kill someone and STILL causes pain. Is it fast? Absolutely. But is a severed aorta from a big ass knife going through your chest instant and painless? Nope. And within the world of the TV show, you can see Dexter's victims reacting to the stab before dying. They aren't smiling and giggling either. They're in f'n pain. Why is this hard for you to understand!?

make sense now?

Nah.. it's just more convoluted since you were wrong. Good job of trying to avoid that fact though.

As far as the whole vigilante thing, instead of reading what I wrote and accepting the fact that a vigilante does NOT have to kill in order to be considered as such while a Serial Killer HAS to kill in order to be considered as such (a difference you failed to acknowledge originally) you just wrote even more stuff avoiding yet again that you were wrong.

 

[CelticPredator]

Dexter is awesome.

 

[Dark Passenger]

Dexter is awesome.

 

[Devil_666]

 

[CelticPredator]

^ HAhahahahahaha....

 

[Devil_666]

 

[die]

Goonies never say die, right!!!!

The only trauma that can cause instantaneous death i.e. 100% painless (like you originally said) is trauma to the brain. Decapitation, a GSW, etc. the victim would feel no pain because they wouldn't have a brain to TELL THEM they were in pain. A severed aorta (which is what you linked) STILL takes seconds to kill someone and STILL causes pain. Is it fast? Absolutely. But is a severed aorta from a big ass knife going through your chest instant and painless? Nope. And within the world of the TV show, you can see Dexter's victims reacting to the stab before dying. They aren't smiling and giggling either. They're in f'n pain. Why is this hard for you to understand!?

but...but...but...I even Googled it for you

Did you actually click any of those links, how about the first one? Medical Report used in court?


The evidence shows that the stab severed the aorta, resulting in instant death.

Decapitation painless? Do your research. Studies on decapped rats show that they are still able to feel pain for about 3 seconds afterwards, which is still considered to be humane, but shoots your severed aorta theory into dust.

Shall you contest this fact, too? I can drop some links if need be.


Are you familiar with the carotid artery? that supplies oxygen to the brain. Dexter injects M99 directly into it to imediately shut a person down. We've also seen him use the rear naked choke, which is his pretty much his plan B. With a rear naked choke, pain is not so much the factor, it's the fear before you pass out. Dexter's methods are actually much more humane than our own legal system's methods of execution.

But yeah, you'll argue, right? Then compare it to lethal injection if you'd like...

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7269-execution-by-injection-far-from-painless.html


"the execution could last up to 10 minutes."


"Without adequate anaesthesia, the authors say, the person being executed would experience asphyxiation, a severe burning sensation, massive muscle cramping and cardiac arrest - which would constitute the "cruel and unusual" punishment expressly forbidden by the US constitution's Eighth Amendment."

As far as the whole vigilante thing, instead of reading what I wrote and accepting the fact that a vigilante does NOT have to kill in order to be considered as such while a Serial Killer HAS to kill in order to be considered as such (a difference you failed to acknowledge originally) you just wrote even more stuff avoiding yet again that you were wrong.

That makes ZERO sense.

You're the one who ignores the fact that kill or no kill, laws are upheld or justice is being served.

I've explained that at least 3 times to you already. Go back and read, I gave you multiple examples of bloodlust consuming people. Remember? I think I was the one who's been comparing 2 different vigilantes, right? Batman & Punisher? Did Punisher only avenge his family? Did he show compassion towards any of his victims? Punisher makes Dexter look like Aqua Man.

We can speculate all we want about whether Dexter would've become a killer or not, but as for FACTS....Dexter's first victim was a murderer nurse and he was protecting Harry. Harry told Dexter to do it, remember? This is how he was hooked one way or another, he even says it in his voiceover. The comparison was even made within the first season as to what Dexter "could've become" with the fake Ice Truck Killer: Neil Perry. Remember the home full of dead animals and the body he kept? But, he just didn't have the killer instinct for it to go beyond that. Keep in mind, Dexter hadn't killed anybody before he met Harry, he'd only killed animals after he met Harry & his first actual murder was an act of vigilante justice.

"You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."

 

[die]

Eeeeeeexactly!