Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[barbelith]

In my experience the more you try and force opinions on people the more likely they are to rebel against them.

I'm not sure why you confuse onscreen representation with "forcing opinions."

 

[bcm77]

I can see you've never watched The Sunmakers.

Seen it and loved it. The difference being that the social comment in that one was made and he left it be.

The idea of making minority groups more acceptable is in principle a good thing but the way RTD does it just grates and probably causes as many people to switch channels as it does to attract new viewers.

Hopefully Moffatt won't see the need to abuse his position to shout from the rooftops about whatever he feels strongly about or if he does he will have the sense to have a bit of restraint about doing so.

 

[barbelith]

Seen it and loved it. The difference being that the social comment in that one was made and he left it be.

Leaving aside for the moment that The Sunmakers is pure agit prop, and therefore about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face, we have to accept that Doctor Who has always been a program about liberal values - rarely moreso than when Barry Letts or Robert Holmes were at the helm. In fact Letts is unapologetic about "pushing agendas" in the program and Holmes routinely did the same thing in his scripts; this is the guy, after all, who wrote screeds against unrestrained capitalism and eating meat.

An underlying ethos of the show has always been an acceptance of those different than us, and I truly pity the less evolved viewers who find the lesbians in Gridlock anything to get worked up about. Those people are truly no different at their core than the Germans who wanted "those people" to live in specially zoned ghettos.

The idea of making minority groups more acceptable is in principle a good thing but the way RTD does it just grates and probably causes as many people to switch channels as it does to attract new viewers.

I seriously doubt anyone but a handful of of people actually care one way or the other. Viewers see people on TV that they also see in the real world; it takes a special mindset to be troubled by that. The rising ratings and massive popularity of the series suggest opening the character ranks to people of all backgrounds is not harming the show one jot.

Hopefully Moffatt won't see the need to abuse his position to shout from the rooftops about whatever he feels strongly about

If he really feels this way, he's the wrong man for the job. Stories should be about something, and like it or not Doctor Who has a half-century tradition of providing SF allegories to promote liberal ideas (indeed we have to remember that even something as basic and obvious as Galaxy 4 would have been radically liberal just one century earlier, when people were quite literally judged by their appearance). Judging by his previous work (including his previous work on Doctor Who), I suspect you're in for a disappointment...

...which no doubt you'll share here daily.

 

[bcm77]

Judging by his previous work (including his previous work on Doctor Who), I suspect you're in for a disappointment...

I ignored most of that because it appeared to be your usual tactic of overanalysing every comment to the minutest of details and if anyone has different views to yours you attempt to label them as some kind of racist, which I'm not.

There will be no disappointment on my part because all I expect is the same crap as the last regime.

 

[barbelith]

I ignored most of that because it appeared to be your usual tactic of overanalysing every comment to the minutest of details and if anyone has different views to yours you attempt to label them as some kind of racist, which I'm not.

Where did I call you a racist?

It's not "overanalyzing" to point out that Doctor Who has a long tradition of using SF allegories to promote liberal values. In fact I find it quite interesting that two of the most unrepentant offenders (Barry Letts and Robert Holmes) are usually cited by you as the best period of the show.

But let's not beat around the bush. When you reference "political agendas" what you really seem to mean is that you have a problem seeing gay characters and interracial relationships in Doctor Who. And if that's the case, I'm not really sure you need to bother tuning into modern television full stop, because nobody's sitting at the back of the bus anymore.

 

[bcm77]

Where did I call you a racist?

But let's not beat around the bush. When you reference "political agendas" what you really seem to mean is that you have a problem seeing gay characters and interracial relationships in Doctor Who. And if that's the case I'm not really sure you need to bother tuning into modern television full stop

You are pretty much inferring that by all the Nazi analogies. If anything is Nazi like it's the way in which all the Nu-Who fanboys here treat me for not liking it and not being afraid to say so though instead of the sound of jackboots pounding up my path it'd probably be Converse trainers and instead of a firing squad I'd be subjected to death by long, drawn out monologues about being the last of their kind.

Aside from sport Doctor Who is the only modern series I watch with any regularity and not for the reasons you are suggesting, to me most modern TV is simply not intresting or entertaining as it's largely tailored to the sort of dumbass who finds reality shows intelligent viewing and I've hated seeing Doctor Who be reduced to the same level.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

 

[barbelith]

You are pretty much inferring that by all the Nazi analogies.

All one of them.

And sorry, the point stands. If that's not what you're referring to when you go on about political agendas, I'd like to hear what you're so concerned about. But trying to whitewash our screens is not a trillion miles from trying to whitewash our countries. It's the same insidious root phenomenon, and it's important enough to address head on, whether on family television or in a toy forum.

If anything is Nazi like it's the way in which all the Nu-Who fanboys here

I don't think there are really any of these here. We all seem to get a lot more excited by the classic figure announcements, for example. And none of us are blind to the flaws in the new series; it's just that we find enough good in it to enjoy the show for what it is. People do get tired of your constant moaning, and fair enough. If you don't like the show, why on Earth keep talking about it?

But then again I suppose we all know what's really happening.

 

[pixletwin]

 

[bcm77]

All one of them.

That is more than enough and totally wrong, my only real crime is to be a Doctor Who fan with a differing opinion to the rest on the majority of the revived series.

I did like it, then I went off it and because I choose to let off some steam and voice my disapproval of the last few years I get subjected to all kinds of petty character assassination and insults by people who have never even met me or tried to take the time to understand where I'm coming from. It goes with the territory

 

[barbelith]

That is more than enough and totally wrong

I disagree. The only difference between wanting to ghettoize minority characters on television and wanting to ghettoize minorities in real life is degree.

But as I said, if that's not what you mean when you bang on about "political agendas" then I'd love to hear what the real problem is. Because it seems from your comments that you take issue with gay characters and interracial relationships on the show, and frankly that's an odious position to hold.

my only real crime is to be a Doctor Who fan with a differing opinion to the rest on the majority of the revived series

Nobody cares that you have a different opinion - certainly nobody here. People criticize you because all you do is moan and whine about the same thing over and over and over again, as if we all haven't heard it three trillion times already. We get it!

 

[bcm77]

I disagree. The only difference between wanting to ghettoize minority characters on television and wanting to ghettoize minorities in real life is degree.

But as I said, if that's not what you mean when you bang on about "political agendas" then I'd love to hear what the real problem is. Because it seems from your comments that you take issue with gay characters and interracial relationships on the show, and frankly that's an odious position to hold.

Why does everything have to have an underlying reason? Not everyone sees things in such broad terms. If I don't like something it's simply because it doesn't entertain me, not because I want to see that minority group excluded from mainstream society.

If I was the sort of bigot you are suggesting I would have nothing to do with my father who has been registered disabled since birth and I wouldn't have spent the last few months in a job where my immediate superior and two other colleagues were gay all of whom I get along just fine with.

In actual fact any type of romantic relationship in Doctor Who has little intrest for me, or at least not if they are done in the manner the last regime went about incorporating them.

But I suspect I'm wasting my time trying to explain myself because you'll inevitably continue with the bullying tactics of false accusations and insults.

 

[barbelith]

If I don't like something it's simply because it doesn't entertain me, not because I want to see that minority group excluded from mainstream society.

Excluding minority groups from mainstream programming necessarily excludes them from a significant part of mainstream society. I don't understand your "entertaining" comment so I can't address that.

But yes, if someone doesn't have a problem with some relationships on the show but does have problems with other relationships on the show, and the reasons are down to race or sexuality, that's a form of bigotry.

In actual fact any type of romantic relationship in Doctor Who has little intrest for me, or at least not if they are done in the manner the last regime went about incorporating them.

If it's truly about romantic relationships full stop, why even bring the phrase "political agenda" into it? People are only responding to the things you say.

 

[bcm77]

If it's truly about romantic relationships full stop, why even bring the phrase "political agenda" into it? People are only responding to the things you say.

I admit my choice of words sometimes isn't the best but there is still no way the amount of flak I get is justified and if anything I'm suprised people still get so wound up by what I post.

The romantic angles and things like the companions family becoming a major part of every other storyline clearly represents an attempt to bring in the soap opera crowd and whilst it's no doubt worked it's not something I've liked because I've no intrest in those things in the context of a show like Who.

 

[Kabukiman]

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...but there is still no way the amount of flak I get is justified and if anything I'm suprised people still get so wound up by what I post.

People?!? As in more than one?

 

[pixletwin]

 

[Kabukiman]

 

[pixletwin]

New info has been posted about the forthcoming episode 11 of the new series of Doctor Who, here is what we know.

Title: The Lodger, written by Gareth Roberts.

Amy Pond ends up travelling one week into the future in the TARDIS, without the Doctor, so he has to live a week as a normal person until the TARDIS arrives. The Doctor becomes the temporary flatmate of Gavin and Stacey star James Corden. He plays in a five-a-side football match, and does pretty well at it, wearing the number 11 shirt!

The Doctor impresses his new friend by adjusting the TV set to receive shows from the future! Its going to be the funniest episode of the new series.

 

[Kabukiman]

New info has been posted about the forthcoming episode 11 of the new series of Doctor Who, here is what we know...

That sounds great! A "companion-lite" episode, maybe? Too bad he only has to live a week without the TARDIS... I'd like to see what he'd do over a more extended period of time, but I guess that would be the Pertwee era, eh?

 

[bcm77]

New info has been posted about the forthcoming episode 11 of the new series of Doctor Who, here is what we know.

Title: The Lodger, written by Gareth Roberts.

Amy Pond ends up travelling one week into the future in the TARDIS, without the Doctor, so he has to live a week as a normal person until the TARDIS arrives. The Doctor becomes the temporary flatmate of Gavin and Stacey star James Corden. He plays in a five-a-side football match, and does pretty well at it, wearing the number 11 shirt!

The Doctor impresses his new friend by adjusting the TV set to receive shows from the future! Its going to be the funniest episode of the new series.

Sounds a GREAT premise for a story.
Gareth Roberts is a superlative writer.
This series will be the best television ever made. Period.
The dude from Gavin & Stacey is in no way annoying.
The modern version of Doctor Who is FANTASTIC!