Does Rey being a Palpatine undermine the Skywalker legacy?
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Problem is.. IMO the PT ruined the Anakin legacy.. Or at least made it a sucky legacy?? Why did this guy deserve redemption... What we get from the films is that he was never really much of a hero or a Jedi... He turns heal on a dime and then... THEN... He becomes Darth Vader and what does he do??? Kills little kids, unarmed Aliens, strangles his pregnant wife, and then gets his butt kicked by the only real competition he comes against
and then somehow he deserves redemption?? I struggle with this big time and turns Vader from a bad ass who turns good guy into a piece of ****. Nah.. The PT undermines the Skywalker saga pretty well on its own...
So in no way does this hurt the Anakin legacy.. He doesn't deserve one
I have to do mental gymnastics all the time anytime I go outside of the OT to accept the damage done to the OT, accept for RO and to a lesser extent Solo. I have to watch seasons of Star Wars Cartoons to make Anakin any kind of hero.... Or decent actor
So here is how I do it for TROS and the ST as a whole.
The Skywalkers, Vader / Anakin and Luke saved the galaxy once from the Emperor... They did it again, especially Luke, Leia, and Ben by helping train and aid Rey in the ST. Sure she not a "Skywalker" but it was because of Skywalker's she was able to get to the point where she could defeat him.
In no way does it undermine the skywalker saga any worse then had it not been the Emperor and had Rey been a nobody.. All the work done by Luke and Anakin was undone by allowing the First Order to come into existence in the first place..
Now at least we know that it was still the Phantom Menace all along.
and it makes the whole thing The STAR WARS saga. I finds that the PT did much more damage as a whole to the SW saga and that the ST was on its way to doing almost equal amount of damage until Rey became a Palpatine
At least that's how it works for me.. If it don't work for you then I get it and you will have to start doing some mental gymnastics of your own
Problem is.. IMO the PT ruined the Anakin legacy.. Or at least made it a sucky legacy?? Why did this guy deserve redemption... What we get from the films is that he was never really much of a hero or a Jedi... He turns heal on a dime and then... THEN... He becomes Darth Vader and what does he do??? Kills little kids, unarmed Aliens, strangles his pregnant wife, and then gets his butt kicked by the only real competition he comes against
Nah.. The PT undermines the Skywalker saga pretty well on its own...
So in no way does this hurt the Anakin legacy.. He doesn't deserve one
I have to do mental gymnastics all the time anytime I go outside of the OT to accept the damage done to the OT, accept for RO and to a lesser extent Solo. I have to watch seasons of Star Wars Cartoons to make Anakin any kind of hero.... Or decent actor
So here is how I do it for TROS and the ST as a whole.
The Skywalkers, Vader / Anakin and Luke saved the galaxy once from the Emperor... They did it again, especially Luke, Leia, and Ben by helping train and aid Rey in the ST. Sure she not a "Skywalker" but it was because of Skywalker's she was able to get to the point where she could defeat him.
In no way does it undermine the skywalker saga any worse then had it not been the Emperor and had Rey been a nobody.. All the work done by Luke and Anakin was undone by allowing the First Order to come into existence in the first place..
Now at least we know that it was still the Phantom Menace all along.
I finds that the PT did much more damage as a whole to the SW saga and that the ST was on its way to doing almost equal amount of damage until Rey became a Palpatine
At least that's how it works for me.. If it don't work for you then I get it and you will have to start doing some mental gymnastics of your own
Yep. The "Prophecy of the Chosen One" is a PT invention and nothing that defines Star Wars for me. That prophecy was just a plot element to give the PT Jedi motivation and explain how they saw Anakin and how he saw himself. The overall Saga still remains a decades long conflict of Palpatine vs. Skywalker with things made more interesting by Anakin and Rey giving up their family names (temporarily in Anakin's case.)
Saying that the ST undermines Anakin's legacy is just "mental gymnastics" that tries to force the Saga into a narrative that didn't even exist until 1999.
Lejuan
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yup.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Didn't the Star Wars: The Clone Wars series do a great job depicting Anakin Skywalker as a hero?
Yep.
And for those of you who don't remember or who aren't old enough to have been there Star Wars was never presented to be "The Story of a Prophecy Fulfilled" or "The Story of One Family's Bloodline Against Evil." No, it was always "The Story of a Boy, a Girl, and a Universe" (later revised to "The Story of a Boy, a Girl, and a Galaxy.") And guess what that describes TROS (and the ST) to a T.
Listen to everything the narrator says both before the release of SW in 1976 and also 7 years after the OT completed.
Even in 1990 SW was still presented as just a story about a boy, a girl, aliens, villains, rebellion and romance. Prophecies and the legacy of Anakin are just PT mumbo jumbo. Even if George's PT revisions is the SW paradigm you go by then the ST still works because Anakin and his offspring were directly involved in destroying the Sith once and for all and it was a Skywalker (young Ben) who allowed the Skywalker name to be reborn, this time untainted by evil.
Well said khev... I think we can close this thread now
I mentioned that in my Post."I have to watch seasons of Star Wars Cartoons to make Anakin any kind of hero.... Or decent actor
"
So for OT purists, there should not be something like Anakin's legacy and they should not complain about such a thing.
By the way, fisrt video shows that lack of John Williams score takes away half of the movie experience.
I can take or leave there being an ancient prophecy as long as it is given no greater importance than the lip service it was paid on screen. Hell Yoda even says point blank that they're not even sure if they understand what the prophecy said in the first place, lol.
And yes JW is indeed the man, there has never been any question about that.
And yes JW is indeed the man, there has never been any question about that.
edit I posted this response to the wrong movie thread originally
Anakin brought balance to the force by killing Jedi so that only 2 remained on either side (light and dark), however once he threw the emperor down that shaft and killed himself and luke trained Leia it was thrown out of wack again. That was his purpose as the chosen one to wipe out all the Jedi thereby bringing darkness in balance with the light. Watch the Clone wars Mortis Arc to get a better understanding of this. In this arc, Anakin was shown his future as darth vader by the brother (darkside), at which point he was about to change his actions which would have resulted in him altering the course of his future (in order to avoid the future he saw at any cost). The father, realizing what the brother had shown him, removed this from his memory because he knew that Anakin had to turn into darth vader in order to bring balance to the force.
Luke really tipped the balance even more when he started the Academy which allowed for Ben's fall to Kylo Ren. Ren then either turned or killed all remaining Jedi and Luke shut himself off from the force which just left only Leia to balance out the darkness of both Snoke (emperor) and Ren- which in turn led to the force awakening in Rey- The light Rises to meet the dark.
Nothing Rey did afterwards impacted what he did in the past. So him saying Rey bring balance to the force as I once did, is still technically correct his legacy is unfazed.
Rey killing the Emperor put it out of wack again, unless the presumption is Rey is herself, the perfect balance of Light and Dark (since she possess both light and dark powers eg force lightning and tendencies)
This is preposterous and impossible to implement... yet the simplest of explanations to justify anything.
First, does the Force work on a perfectly balanced scale? Everything in the universe must have equal weight? So wasn't it out of balance when Ben and Yoda died but Vader and Emperor were alive? And what about the Death Star instantly reducing Alderaan to ash -- somewhere in the galaxy, did an entire planet spring to life to balance the universe?
How does one balance the Force without embracing equal evil into the world?
And does the Force work on a human time scale as well? I always envisioned that you could have centuries of evil rule because the Force would only have to balance that with centuries of good at some point. But living during the "evil period" a mere human would perceive only evil in his world. How come the Force works so quickly to balance itself with the Skywalkers -- a simple little family that has no true baring on the overall balance of the universal Force.
Remember when Anakin was just a man who became a Jedi, was seduced by the Dark side, and the returned to the light side for his kid?
It was a much better story back then.
It was a much better story back then.
It amazes me how much debate goes back and forth about the force, prophecies, chosen ones, balance, Sith vs Jedi etc. etc. I get it's sort of EU, and the force/jedi are an interesting idea so people want more. They want to fill in all the blanks. But that's where the troubles began.
For me as a kid it was simple - the force was something magical (connecting us all to the eternal) but also a multiplier of your choices in life, something that was kind of personal, and linked to growth/maturity/morality. You do good, it makes the good you do magnified, but you can also choose to do wrong, and it'll multiply that. And you can train, with someone wise, bad or good, to amplify the ability to use it. And yeah, of course your parents/family have some bearing on the choices you make in life, and have some connection to whatever magic created you, so they are a part of it.
But as soon as you had this PT Jedi bureaucracy/admin and these massive Jedi temples (the one on Coruscant looked like a power station designed by Albert Speer
) and the minutiae of the force endlessly discussed/revealed - "how it works and what it wants" the whole thing kinda went south for me. It sort of fell apart into silliness and boredom. "The chosen one" and "the prophecy" are a great trailer lines but they are super dull as character/story devices.
The force and the jedi were meant to be something hinted at, hazy in detail, the way real ancient tales are. But just like the clone wars to me weren't literally supposed to be a bunch of clones fighting a war (ugh...,) all of this balance/prophecy stuff has devalued the mythology of SW to me. Yeah, I kinda ignore it, but it's still unfortunate. It's hard to forget that god-awful imagery of all those jedis with their twirly-whirly sabers in the arena and the lady-Yoda, conehead and shrunken-head guys pontificating in that meeting chamber. Stuff I really wish I'd never seen.
For me as a kid it was simple - the force was something magical (connecting us all to the eternal) but also a multiplier of your choices in life, something that was kind of personal, and linked to growth/maturity/morality. You do good, it makes the good you do magnified, but you can also choose to do wrong, and it'll multiply that. And you can train, with someone wise, bad or good, to amplify the ability to use it. And yeah, of course your parents/family have some bearing on the choices you make in life, and have some connection to whatever magic created you, so they are a part of it.
But as soon as you had this PT Jedi bureaucracy/admin and these massive Jedi temples (the one on Coruscant looked like a power station designed by Albert Speer
) and the minutiae of the force endlessly discussed/revealed - "how it works and what it wants" the whole thing kinda went south for me. It sort of fell apart into silliness and boredom. "The chosen one" and "the prophecy" are a great trailer lines but they are super dull as character/story devices.The force and the jedi were meant to be something hinted at, hazy in detail, the way real ancient tales are. But just like the clone wars to me weren't literally supposed to be a bunch of clones fighting a war (ugh...,) all of this balance/prophecy stuff has devalued the mythology of SW to me. Yeah, I kinda ignore it, but it's still unfortunate. It's hard to forget that god-awful imagery of all those jedis with their twirly-whirly sabers in the arena and the lady-Yoda, conehead and shrunken-head guys pontificating in that meeting chamber. Stuff I really wish I'd never seen.
So true.
20 years of me picturing the Jedi as Akira Kurosawa badasses and then suddenly George brings out the cast of Babylon 5, lol.
So true.
20 years of me picturing the Jedi as Akira Kurosawa badasses and then suddenly George brings out the cast of Babylon 5, lol.
*plinkett voice* walkinnng and talkinnng, sitting in a chairrrr and talkingggg then walkingggg and talking....
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Good post. That?s why in my TL;DR PT treatment there?s no prophecy, no chosen one, no council. The Jedi are just kind of wandering robin who get sucked into Palpatine?s machinations and Yoda is still a crazy hermit in the swamp.
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So true.
20 years of me picturing the Jedi as Akira Kurosawa badasses and then suddenly George brings out the cast of Babylon 5, lol.
*plinkett voice* walkinnng and talkinnng, sitting in a chairrrr and talkingggg then walkingggg and talking....
You wrote a story for the PT?
