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Probably, but I was thinking of Escape from Alcatraz , The Shawshank Redemption, Papillon, and The Great Escape. I also like Lockup, starring Stallone. He doesn't actually escape, but I like it. :lol

I'll confess that I'm not much of an expert on prison flicks. I've watched "The Last Castle" though, with Redford and Gandolfini.
 
I didn?t know Zendeya is in this :dunno

She's Chani.

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Admittedly she looks kinda passable, but...

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Another redhead bites the dust.
 
Obviously screams..screw accuracy, we want actors the target audiences go for nowadays :rotfl

Is there a target audience for Zendaya? She's just shoehorned in tentpoles, she's not a draw. Her bigest role was that ****** HBO show "Euphoria" which is about a bunch of "muh depression" zoomers and general degeneracy (drugs, obese camwhores, teen traps getting ****ed in the ass by grown men), and it came and went with no fanfare. They could've easily gotten some real ginger like Annalise Basso. Or they could've had a casting call for redheaded MENAs. There are a lot of natural redheads in the Middle East, if that's the route they were going for.

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But noooooo, we gotta have Zendaya. She doesn't deserve Chalamet!

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But isn't Chani described as dark skinned? Red hair, sure, but dark skinned (like Fremen should be, I guess). So isn't Zendaya a good fit for that? Easier to put on a wig...
 
But isn't Chani described as dark skinned? Red hair, sure, but dark skinned (like Fremen should be, I guess). So isn't Zendaya a good fit for that? Easier to put on a wig...

Yes. Dark skin, red hair. It's set 20,000 years in the future after millennia of diaspora and human evolution. Human phenotypes would likely be quite diverse at that point and I think Herbert depicted them as such, although it's been a while since I read the novels.
 
But noooooo, we gotta have Zendaya. She doesn't deserve Chalamet!

ELnJ8DpUcAAraEY.jpg

His face is already putting me to sleep. :lol

G-zeus. This films has all the makings of an epic borefest, with a dull looking protagonist, questionable production design and costumes, and the possible political content and social commentary in the story.

I hope I'm wrong and the film makes me eat crow. :pray:
 
But isn't Chani described as dark skinned? Red hair, sure, but dark skinned (like Fremen should be, I guess). So isn't Zendaya a good fit for that? Easier to put on a wig...

Yes. Dark skin, red hair. It's set 20,000 years in the future after millennia of diaspora and human evolution. Human phenotypes would likely be quite diverse at that point and I think Herbert depicted them as such, although it's been a while since I read the novels.

Fremen live underground and considering Arrakis is in space, they migrated there, so it's not like they evolved to live on that place. The only forced evolution would be that, the longer they stay underground without sunlight, the paler coming generations would be. They are described as thin and with "leathery skin". "Leathery skin" is usually a result of a White, or just generally light-skinned, person tanning without sunscreen. You can see it in the South or usually old men who've been working their fields without protection for years and years. So along with the red hair, and going logically about the whole thing, the Fremen are most probably pale, White people, who tan in places where they aren't wearing their suits. They're supposed to be mostly malnourished too, which contributes to the "leathery skin".

However, with stuff like the Dune Encyclopedia and whatnot, they were suppose to be far-off Sunni, and coupled with the desert planet motiff, lots of people see them as Arabs. Which isn't far-fetched either, as there are light skinned, bright eyed, and light haired Arabs. There are even natural Arab redheads who are natives to the land.

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This is Princess Lalla Salma of Morocco. Yeah I know it's NA, but it is a part of the Arab World. You can google redheaded Arabs yourself.

And said light skinned Arabs, when they tan without protection, get that kind of tanned, "leathery skin" I mentioned above. So, all things considered, if you wanted to be diverse and inclusive and whatever, you could go that route. You'd have light skinned Arabs, darker skinned Arabs, tanned Arabs, whatever. It'd make sense, it'd be accurate to the source material, and it'd give a chance to go for another non-White group that isn't "Something-Mixed American black".

In the end, Zendaya isn't a good choice. She's neither White nor Arab. Race isn't skin deep, so her mixed whatever-colour matters little. In the 50s and 60s you had white Hollywood stars with a darker tan than her. Watch something like "The Red Shoes", and the skintone difference between Boris and Victoria is stark, even though one's Austrian and the other's Scottish. She doesn't pass off as an Arab, considering that she's just a mixed, black American girl. When George Clooney tans he's darker than her, but I doubt he's consider "non-White". People harp on about "Lawrence Of Arabia", but Alec Guiness was very close to the actual Faisal:

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And that's because Arabs are Caucasian as well. If you were making LoA now, of course you'd get an actor of the same ethnicity. But my point is that a White is closer to a MENA than a black.

This whole casting is a Metropolitan thing where "tanning" is just a thing you do in Solariums (and somehow isn't reversible), all "darker" people are just a vague cluster of "brown" or "black" and Arabs, MENAs and every other African are put in the same basket. It's what gave rise to the "Moors be black" which still stands today. Which is why you get nonsense such black Egyptians and black Hannibal accepted as truth. We're at the stage where Cleopatra and Achilles are turning black, so this is getting worse.

As for the "it's the future" argument, it really doesn't hold up. I mean, it's "da futah", who knows, maybe we're all gone look like Hitler's wet dream. Or maybe we're gonna be three-armed and with a Scrotum Leader head. You're not adapting "dude, it's da futah", you're adapting "Dune". House Atreides is supposed to be a bunch of Space Greeks. If I can suspend my belief enough to accept that there'd ever be a Space Greek Monarchy with roots back to Atreus, then I can surely believe that the world wouldn't be a "California Mixed Utopia" where ethnicities and identities don't matter, and we're all the same and sheeeeeeiiiiii "cuz it's da futah". It's "the future" is just an excuse to write Fantasy but wilder and in Space; anything goes. So if you're gonna adapt "Dune", adapt "Dune".

So, no, Zendaya doesn't fit. Nor as how Chani is described, and neither as a Space Arab. Chani's a redhead, but I guess we have to scrub redheads from every single piece of media. MJ? Gone. Triss? Gone. Lana Lang? Gone. Jimmy Olsen? Gone. Ariel? Gone. I guess I have to prepare for Jean'iqua Grey in the MCU (which means that I won't even care for the MCU X-Men in that case).

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His face is already putting me to sleep. :lol

G-zeus. This films has all the makings of an epic borefest, with a dull looking protagonist, questionable production design and costumes, and the possible political content and social commentary in the story.

I hope I'm wrong and the film makes me eat crow. :pray:

Watch "The King" for Chalamet and see if you warm up to him.

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For the rest, I feel the same.
 
Fremen live underground and considering Arrakis is in space, they migrated there, so it's not like they evolved to live on that place. The only forced evolution would be that, the longer they stay underground without sunlight, the paler coming generations would be. They are described as thin and with "leathery skin". "Leathery skin" is usually a result of a White, or just generally light-skinned, person tanning without sunscreen. You can see it in the South or usually old men who've been working their fields without protection for years and years. So along with the red hair, and going logically about the whole thing, the Fremen are most probably pale, White people, who tan in places where they aren't wearing their suits. They're supposed to be mostly malnourished too, which contributes to the "leathery skin".

However, with stuff like the Dune Encyclopedia and whatnot, they were suppose to be far-off Sunni, and coupled with the desert planet motiff, lots of people see them as Arabs. Which isn't far-fetched either, as there are light skinned, bright eyed, and light haired Arabs. There are even natural Arab redheads who are natives to the land.

This is Princess Lalla Salma of Morocco. Yeah I know it's NA, but it is a part of the Arab World. You can google redheaded Arabs yourself.

And said light skinned Arabs, when they tan without protection, get that kind of tanned, "leathery skin" I mentioned above. So, all things considered, if you wanted to be diverse and inclusive and whatever, you could go that route. You'd have light skinned Arabs, darker skinned Arabs, tanned Arabs, whatever. It'd make sense, it'd be accurate to the source material, and it'd give a chance to go for another non-White group that isn't "Something-Mixed American black".

In the end, Zendaya isn't a good choice. She's neither White nor Arab. Race isn't skin deep, so her mixed whatever-colour matters little. In the 50s and 60s you had white Hollywood stars with a darker tan than her. Watch something like "The Red Shoes", and the skintone difference between Boris and Victoria is stark, even though one's Austrian and the other's Scottish. She doesn't pass off as an Arab, considering that she's just a mixed, black American girl. When George Clooney tans he's darker than her, but I doubt he's consider "non-White". People harp on about "Lawrence Of Arabia", but Alec Guiness was very close to the actual Faisal:



And that's because Arabs are Caucasian as well. If you were making LoA now, of course you'd get an actor of the same ethnicity. But my point is that a White is closer to a MENA than a black.

This whole casting is a Metropolitan thing where "tanning" is just a thing you do in Solariums (and somehow isn't reversible), all "darker" people are just a vague cluster of "brown" or "black" and Arabs, MENAs and every other African are put in the same basket. It's what gave rise to the "Moors be black" which still stands today. Which is why you get nonsense such black Egyptians and black Hannibal accepted as truth. We're at the stage where Cleopatra and Achilles are turning black, so this is getting worse.

So, no, Zendaya doesn't fit. Nor as how Chani is described, and neither as a Space Arab. Chani's a redhead, but I guess we have to scrub redheads from every single piece of media. MJ? Gone. Triss? Gone. Lana Lang? Gone. Jimmy Olsen? Gone. Ariel? Gone. I guess I have to prepare for Jean'iqua Grey in the MCU (which means that I won't even care for the MCU X-Men in that case).

Haha. You think Hollywood cares about depicting true diversity? Hollywood loves stereotypes. They want every single person from any given group, ethnicity or country to look all the same. It's the black and white mentality that exist in the US. It's why you don't see white Mexicans in Hollywood films, but if you watch the soap operas they're all white, which isn't a true depiction of the entire population either, but that's a whole different yet similar kind of problem in showbusiness in Mexico and other South and Central American countries. I was just watching a tv show called Better Call Saul, and the main villain in the new season is a Mexican actor named, Tony Dalton. I remember him from a soap,

mgVVUab.jpg


but in Hollywood, can't show that. It'd be too confusing, so they gave him a mustache and a strong tan...or makeup, so that people at home feel comfortable, and understand that's he's from south of the border. :lol Imagine if they showed a black/Afrolatino, blonde or red headed Latino? :panic: :explode:

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Haha. You think Hollywood cares about depicting true diversity? Hollywood loves stereotypes. They want every single person from any given group, ethnicity or country to look all the same. It's the black and white mentality that exist in the US. It's why you don't see white Mexicans in Hollywood films, but if you watch the soap operas they're all white, which isn't a true depiction of the entire population either, but that's a whole different yet similar kind of problem in showbusiness in Mexico and other South and Central American countries.
I know. It's all part of the "Plan". Once you normalize mixed populations everywhere and erase identity, then what's left? Nothing. And Hollywood movies and games and whatnot are the first and foremost propaganda tool. Ironically we're going back to Ben Franklin's definition of "Whiteness", where only Anglo-Saxons were White, maybe some Scots, everyone else was a vague shade of Brown or whatever. It's just that this time the Metropolitan Elites think they're doing the world a favour... Still, it's insulting to everyone to be represented by "Random Mixed American Blacks", no matter where they're from.

But yeah, it is also a result of the American mindset. Mostly because they don't realize that race isn't as simple as skin colour. A Swede can come to the South, tan and come out looking Bronze and darker than tons of American blacks. He's still White because of his features. An Arab can be light-skinned. People can differentiate the phenotype of a German, an Italian and a guy from MENA. But when you live in the "Metropolitan Melting Pot", then there's just "White", "some kind of Black", and "Brown".

I was just watching a tv show called Better Call Saul, and the main villain in the new season is a Mexican actor named, Tony Dalton. I remember him from a soap,

mgVVUab.jpg


but in Hollywood, can't show that. It'd be too confusing, so they gave him a mustache and a strong tan...or makeup, so that people at home feel comfortable, and understand that's he's from south of the border. :lol Imagine if they showed a black/Afrolatino, blonde or red headed Latino? :panic: :explode:

UC6OjCV.jpg
I started watching BCS but dropped it around the first few Eps of S4. It became too slow. Maybe I'll pick it up again because I do like Jimmy's character, and the seccondary characters like Nacho, Gus, Howard and Kim, plus Lalo's scenes look straight out of an Anime. And I do want to see where it goes. It's just that I don't know if I can get through Mike driving a forklift for 10 minutes...

I get what you're saying though. I was watching ZeroZeroZero the other day, and you could see the different Phenotypes in Monterey. The main Latino, Vampiro/Manuel is a darker/medium-skinned Latino. Another guy from his group's got the same skintone, but you can tell from his features that he's an Afro-Latino. The Leyras who are the upper-class Cartel, all are light-skinned/White Latinos. Stefano is from Calabria, and part of the Mafia Storyline, but you can tell that he's got European features even if he's tanned. The Lynwoods are the American Whites. When they go to Morocco you can see the difference between the Arabs and the Africans. So it's not just skin colour that solely determines race and ethnicity. But in [current year] we just can't have that. Even "Black" is a blanket term since Africa is an entire continent, so different Countries and Groups/Ethnicities have different Phenotypes. But because in America the vast majority of blacks came from a specific part, they think that they're all the same.

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Great show BTW, really engaging. Not one storyline was boring. They have their ups and downs where either Mexico, Italy or the Lynwoods are the most or least interesting, but there's not a single episode that's bad.
 
I do remember it being very good acting wise, it's just that at the time I had quite a bit of backlog so I stopped keeping up. It's now cleared up (some stuff I watched to completion, others I dropped because they were going nowhere/weren't worth the investment), so I will probably get back into at some point, considering there's what, one or two more seasons to go before they catch up with BrBa.
 
I see. Well, BrBa's first 4 Seasons took place in the span of a year, so they could stretch it to two seasons. But I hope they don't. Mike will be dead by then, probably stuck inside a car. Vince will take notice of it about 10 minutes after the 20-minute long "stalking someone from inside the car" scene they'd be shooting.
 
His face is already putting me to sleep. :lol

G-zeus. This films has all the makings of an epic borefest, with a dull looking protagonist, questionable production design and costumes, and the possible political content and social commentary in the story.

I hope I'm wrong and the film makes me eat crow. :pray:

I saw Chalamet in Little Women (I quite like period pieces but this lacked combat scenes :lol) -- and the kid can act.

I liked Machlachlan in Lynch's Dune and see Chalamet being able to pull it off. Paul Atreides starts out as a pampered aristocrat which he's spot-on for. Can he make the transition to leader of a holy war? Remains to be seen but like I said, the kid can act.
 
Fremen live underground and considering Arrakis is in space, they migrated there, so it's not like they evolved to live on that place.

We're already in Star Wars territory here. Those discussions were fans pit their imaginary theories about an imaginary story against each other.

But sure, I'll play:

20,000 years isn't near long enough for speciation, but it's plenty long enough for phenotypic variation and drift.

Canonically speaking, the Fremen have been present on Arrakis long enough for selective pressure to manifest: the sequence where the Shadout Mapes allows herself to be cut by the Crysknife highlights the uniquely rapid speed of clotting/coagulation, a physiological adaptation to retain moisture, and they don't seem to involuntarily cry from emotion either, as evidenced by their shock at Paul's tears.



The only forced evolution would be that, the longer they stay underground without sunlight, the paler coming generations would be. They are described as thin and with "leathery skin". "Leathery skin" is usually a result of a White, or just generally light-skinned, person tanning without sunscreen.

There are plenty of brown peoples throughout the world whose skin grows *quite* leathery with a lifetime of exposure to the elements, never mind the fictional Arrakeen sun and aridity.

In the descriptions they are described as sinewy, weedy, thin, calorically restricted but they're not 'malnourished' given their formidable fighting abilities.


However, with stuff like the Dune Encyclopedia and whatnot, they were suppose to be far-off Sunni, and coupled with the desert planet motiff, lots of people see them as Arabs. Which isn't far-fetched either, as there are light skinned, bright eyed, and light haired Arabs. There are even natural Arab redheads who are natives to the land.

Sure, lots of variation in the Arab world. Many are olive skinned to begin with. The genetics in that part of the world are all over the place.


And said light skinned Arabs, when they tan without protection, get that kind of tanned, "leathery skin" I mentioned above. So, all things considered, if you wanted to be diverse and inclusive and whatever, you could go that route. You'd have light skinned Arabs, darker skinned Arabs, tanned Arabs, whatever. It'd make sense, it'd be accurate to the source material, and it'd give a chance to go for another non-White group that isn't "Something-Mixed American black".

Any depiction of human phenotypes in 20,000 years being purely speculative, the director has a lot of latitude. Like or her not, Zendaya is popular in the industry right now and at any rate I think she looks the part of a lean, fighting Fremen, because my personal opinion is not locked on specifically Arabic-descended Fremen that look identical to the contemporary Middle Eastern phenotypes.


As for the "it's the future" argument, it really doesn't hold up. I mean, it's "da futah", who knows, maybe we're all gone look like Hitler's wet dream. Or maybe we're gonna be three-armed and with a Scrotum Leader head. You're not adapting "dude, it's da futah", you're adapting "Dune". House Atreides is supposed to be a bunch of Space Greeks. If I can suspend my belief enough to accept that there'd ever be a Space Greek Monarchy with roots back to Atreus, then I can surely believe that the world wouldn't be a "California Mixed Utopia" where ethnicities and identities don't matter, and we're all the same and sheeeeeeiiiiii "cuz it's da futah". It's "the future" is just an excuse to write Fantasy but wilder and in Space; anything goes. So if you're gonna adapt "Dune", adapt "Dune".

It's not an 'argument'. This is an adaptation and as such certain elements have a plasticity to them that allows contemporary people to relate to them.-- my personal opinion is that many great stories that persist through time and culture have these flexible elements within them.

I already know your opinion and won't try to change your mind. I would have no problem with your casting of Dune with Space Greeks and Space Arabs. None. But I'm not bothered by Villeneuve's multi-ethnic casting because in this particular case, I feel it's a non-issue.
 
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