Dune Part Two (October 20th, 2023)

[ZE_501]

.... And on it went, meanwhile this new Feyd puts me in mind of the villain in "Cari Mora" by Thomas Harris. That was such an upsetting villain that I cant reread that book - which was quite good - but somehow neither Sting or this new guy capture the essence of what Feyd should really be. Maybe someone closer to Loki. Suave but deadly.

The television mini-series a while back had him kinda suave and bratty but with the lethal. Lynch's Dune came out in 1984, so I probably saw it around then, say 11 or 12 years old, and likely read the novel for the first time *after* that, so Kyle, Sting et al were already burned into my brain as the visual references for those characters.

So far the only actors that have taken me out of Part 1 are Zendaya and Jason Momoa ... only because they have too much of a *contemporary* vibe for me. I go back and forth on Chalamet but the truth is I feel like the film may have been better cast with relative unknowns or character/theatre actors to get that far-away, otherworldly thing going on.

HYPECON: 5. Interested.

Fair.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Always remember your Chalamet.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

So far the only actors that have taken me out of Part 1 are Zendaya and Jason Momoa ... only because they have too much of a *contemporary* vibe for me. I go back and forth on Chalamet but the truth is I feel like the film may have been better cast with relative unknowns or character/theatre actors to get that far-away, otherworldly thing going on.

I wholeheartedly agree in principle. But the tricky part of that is without a "name" as a headliner, or a large well known ensemble cast, then that just makes it infinitely harder to get practical financing.

I know a retired set designer, and he pointed out to me that he missed the old days when lots of films were just funded by mob money. That gangsters only cared about getting their end and as long as they were glorified on screen, they just left everything alone. He said to me that the modern shift focuses on whatever the algorithms say is the right thing to do. Casting has to factor in appealing to certain demographics and foreign markets and then merchandising. Once you hit all these check boxes, it's not hard to see why many films have nothing left for an actual narrative.

Sort of interesting that Robert Rodriguez has said multiple times that if he had a choice between a small budget film that's a pretty risky concept or a big budget film that seems like a clear lock, that he'd rather do the one with less funding because then at least he'd ensure his own creative freedom.

Maybe Dune only gets made because financiers were betting on Chalamet being the next young Depp or DiCaprio. I'll say something controversial here, slightly, in that despite all his off the camera chaos and mental health issues and criminal behavior, I still think Ezra Miller would have been better as the lead here. He might be nuts, but he's actually a pretty good actor.

I want what you want but it's probably only going to happen currently in sleeper type films.

 

[chrisstbh]

A movie like this needs some recognisable names. Sure Dune has a hardcore fanbase but a wider audience needs something more than the name of the movie.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Seth Rogen as Baron Harkonnen

Ben Still as Paul Zoolander

Amy Shumer as Irulan

Steven Carell as Leto Atreides

Awkwafina as Chani


$140M opening weekend

 

[The Buffinator]

I can't remember the last time I was higher than hypecon 5 for anything.

Maybe the Matrix sequels and LOTR?

I think in order to capture your level of apathy the Hypecon scale should be like a Spinal Tap amp - it needs to go to 11.

 

[The Buffinator]

So far the only actors that have taken me out of Part 1 are Zendaya and Jason Momoa ... only because they have too much of a *contemporary* vibe for me. I go back and forth on Chalamet but the truth is I feel like the film may have been better cast with relative unknowns or character/theatre actors to get that far-away, otherworldly thing going on.

Chalamet - the only casting choice that could make Kyle McLachlan's Paul look badass in comparison.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I go back and forth on Chalamet

 

[Mondragon]

He said...

 

[Rotfish]

Oh no, I mean the Reloaded/Revolutions over 20 years ago. My hype was through the freaking rooooooof.

That last one I thought was gonna totally suck and I had zero hype for it. Negative hype, even. Everyone seems to agree it was total garbage. I liked it though. I think I'm one of the only ones.

I didn't enjoy the fourth, but I always liked the second and third. I'd even go as far as to call them good, maybe even great. The first gets points for being self-contained, but the next two are like an expansion pack for people who want more. And as far as expansions go, they're pretty juicy.

 

[ZE_501]

I wholeheartedly agree in principle. But the tricky part of that is without a "name" as a headliner, or a large well known ensemble cast, then that just makes it infinitely harder to get practical financing.

Oh yeah -- in this day and age? Villeneuve has cred but not *that* much cred.

I know a retired set designer, and he pointed out to me that he missed the old days when lots of films were just funded by mob money. That gangsters only cared about getting their end and as long as they were glorified on screen, they just left everything alone.

I can see that.

He said to me that the modern shift focuses on whatever the algorithms say is the right thing to do. Casting has to factor in appealing to certain demographics and foreign markets and then merchandising. Once you hit all these check boxes, it's not hard to see why many films have nothing left for an actual narrative.

That's just it; Disney gets crucified for having an 'agenda' on the regular but I've said it before; their agenda is min-maxing spreadsheets and they follow the algorithms. They have no inherent moral or socio-political stance other than what makes them money from the lowest common denominator.

Maybe Dune only gets made because financiers were betting on Chalamet being the next young Depp or DiCaprio.

I wouldn't take that bet. He's good at the one thing he does but I don't see him aging into a Depp or DiCaprio because he was never a young heartthrob, just a preternaturally boyish androgyne (I use that as an adjective, not an insult) with vaguely aristocratic airs about him.

I'll say something controversial here, slightly, in that despite all his off the camera chaos and mental health issues and criminal behavior, I still think Ezra Miller would have been better as the lead here. He might be nuts, but he's actually a pretty good actor.

Haven't seen him in anything. Still not buying him for the physicality of the role ... not that I reeeallly do Chalamet, either. At least not yet.

I want what you want but it's probably only going to happen currently in sleeper type films.

Very likely.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Seth Rogen as Baron Harkonnen

Ben Still as Paul Zoolander

Amy Shumer as Irulan

Steven Carell as Leto Atreides

Awkwafina as Chani


$140M opening weekend

... How can we work Jim Carey into this? I think he'd make a great Gurney Halleck.

Justin Beiber can be Piter de Vries.

Amy Shumer as Irulan? I think not. Not with Kristen Stewart out there.

Lil Nas X should be a Guild Master.

 

[Wor-Gar]

... How can we work Jim Carey into this?

Recast: Carrey is now Paul...


WHY!?

Because he can do a good 'non-rhythm' sand-walk...

 

[Ramatuelle]

All right, slow your roll Wor Gar. lol

One wonders why HT never picked up this license. They can do stuff from that megaflop Eternals, but not from one of the biggest sci-fi franchises ever?

...Nah, lets make more Spidey and IM.

 

[chrisstbh]

All right, slow your roll Wor Gar. lol

One wonders why HT never picked up this license. They can do stuff from that megaflop Eternals, but not from one of the biggest sci-fi franchises ever?

...Nah, lets make more Spidey and IM.

Is Dune one of the biggest sci-fi franchises ever? Seems to have fallen into obscurity over the decades. The movie also didn’t make as much as a massive franchise should.

 

[ZE_501]

Is Dune one of the biggest sci-fi franchises ever? Seems to have fallen into obscurity over the decades. The movie also didn’t make as much as a massive franchise should.

It's way too cerebral for this day and age. It contains more abstractions and deeper ideas than say -- Lord of the Rings. Done right it'd make 'Andor' look like a kid's cartoon and *that* series keeps making people bored.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Is Dune one of the biggest sci-fi franchises ever? Seems to have fallen into obscurity over the decades. The movie also didn’t make as much as a massive franchise should.

It is one of the biggest and most recognized franchises in science-fiction, yes.

It mostly lacks ray-gun battles and metahumans that fly, which are much more popular these days. Thats much more visual than your Bene Gesserit superior just casually dropping that yes, Baron Harkonnen IS actually your father. Or that they were considering trying to cross Paul back to Jessica or Alia. They only gave up on that when they reluctantly realized Paul was too powerful to force.

Or Alia coming to full adult consciousness while in utero during Jessica's water of life experience.

That kind of thing is the real horror you see in Dune.

 

[Mondragon]

It is one of the biggest and most recognized franchises in science-fiction, yes.

Comparing Dune to the biggest most recognizable sci-fi, SW, Trek, firkin Avatar, tangentially the Marvel U, I think you might be projecting your own geekdome recognition of it's significance (we all know here), onto the general audiences fickle attention span, who wouldn't know or distinguish Dune from a hill of sand in SW or Barsoom, because they aren't selling landfills of merchandise and happy-meals and building monumental theme parks based on this franchise, ever.
And while Zendaya, Chalamet and Momoa might have brought in some thirsty teens and temporary fervent twitting, the general audience will mostly forget Dune exists again.

Looking back now, cloning is something you see in a Michael Crichton hard sci-fi story, not in something mythical with wizards and the force like SW, despite the trappings of space and lasers etc

FYI there was cloning in Dune, they were called Gholas

Warning over 50yo Spoiler!: The "cloning" of Duncan Idaho [Jason Momoa] character, forms a rather significant part of the ongoing saga.
They are bread in Axlotl tanks, and reconstructed from a single cell from the original being.
Also they could be used as pawns, and gifted, while secretly implanted with trigger commands to turn against their host.
Further, part of the narrative of Duncan's clone story was breaking free of that implanted command, and forging his own identity.
Dune was very much Sci-fantasy-mythical , and informed much of what Lucas did.

cloning is something you see in a Michael Crichtonhard sci-fi story, not in something mythical with wizards and the force like SW, despite the trappings of space and lasers etc

Look again.

 

[Ramatuelle]

My dude, Dune was around decades before the Marvel movie universe, or Avatar (lol) i could keep going but will not for the sake of brevity. It was around before SW.

I dont speak for everyone, but I dont require a themed park to enjoy something. The first three books in particular are science fiction classics. It is known.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Villeneuve has cred but not *that* much cred.

I think his cred actually comes from the fact that every and any actor in Hollywood wants to work with the guy. That gives anyone serious cred in the biz.

He's a prestige director.