Dune Part Two (October 20th, 2023)

[Ramatuelle]

LOL, I read Dune around 76.

And other than among geek-dome, that still didn't make it the "biggest and most recognized franchises in science-fiction,", back then

Never said it was.

What I said was, that it was one of the biggest.

And back then, it was. Its still big today. Still highly recognized. We've had two movies so far, at at least one tv series. The original trilogy of books are science fiction classics. If you are into science fiction, you have probably read at least the first book. The only other thing close I'm coming up with is Asimov's Foundation series, which makes Dune look like a real page-turner indeed. [I find that Foundation stuff very dry and dull, but mileage will vary.]

I don't think i've ever argued that stuff like the [mostly] trash Marvel puts out isn't more popular now. Of course it is, because IQs have dropped sharply in the past few decades. I watch it too! But is it mostly trash? It is. And with that, this elitist is bowing out.

 

[xipotec]

The vast majority of "norms" who have seen Dune that I have spoken to , barely understand the story at all. DV is an awesome spectacle director, but overall, his cerebral films are totally lost on the general public.

My kids are thankfully becoming serious cinemaphiles, and love discussing films that challenged them. Dune was no exceptions.

They got alot of the story, but without reading the books, I feel you are missing some of the greatest plot points.

Unfortunately, DV also put a huge part of the story in random dream sequences, that make no sense unless you see it twice. They are just edited to flippantly to stick with a casual first time viewer.

A great example is Pauls vision of the future war in "his fathers name". The dialogue is super emotional and mushy at that scene. And much of whats trying to be conveyed is lost.

I am hoping they drive home some of the plot points in m part 2. The most impressive part of the tale is the Bennys manipluating the creation of Paul and the Freamin religion surrounding him. Its just lost how important they are to the story....and what actually being attempted in the manipulation of his line.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I find this Dune refreshing, slow or boring or over-my-head or not.

I can't tell you how sick I am of MCU crap after more than a decade of it completely dominating action/adventure.

Just the sight of all these Marvel and DC cartoons listed in the MOVIE forum is exhausting and aggravating week after week, month after month, year after year.

 

[Ramatuelle]

xip: The vast majority of "norms" who have seen Dune that I have spoken to, barely understand the story at all. DV is an awesome spectacle director, but overall, his cerebral films are totally lost on the general public.

A big hurdle is that the book is written in such a way that it does not lend itself well to film adaptation by anyone. Irulan is voice-overing, telling you what's going on as you read and yeah... thats hard to translate. You have a whole glossary in the back of the book, and as you read you have to keep flipping back there. [or you do if you were teenage me.] To get into Dune, you have to enter this whole other world of new things. Lots of people are not that patient. This is one of the world-builder-iest books I have ever read.

I have said it before: to get through the film stuff comfortably, the book must be read. MUST. Its not optional, or you gonna be lost. So casuals sit there scratching their heads and asking you 50,000 questions.

 

[Rotfish]

A great example is Pauls vision of the future war in "his fathers name". The dialogue is super emotional and mushy at that scene. And much of whats trying to be conveyed is lost.

Had to give it a second watch on HBO with subtitles in order to understand what he was saying in that scene.

 

[xipotec]

I find this Dune refreshing, slow or boring or over-my-head or not.

I can't tell you how sick I am of MCU crap after more than a decade of it completely dominating action/adventure.

Just the sight of all these Marvel and DC cartoons listed in the MOVIE forum is exhausting and aggravating week after week, month after month, year after year.

I feel the same about Hot Toys product releases also....

 

[Khev]

I find this Dune refreshing, slow or boring or over-my-head or not.

I can't tell you how sick I am of MCU crap after more than a decade of it completely dominating action/adventure.

Just the sight of all these Marvel and DC cartoons listed in the MOVIE forum is exhausting and aggravating week after week, month after month, year after year.

I hear you but for me at least it doesn't have to be either/or.

As long as we keep getting Mavericks, John Wicks, Jake Sully's and yes Dunes in between all the superhero stuff then I'm fine with both.

 

[Sachiel]

 

[Mandible]

Loved the first film. Didn't like the first trailer for number 2, but this trailer is one of the best trailers I've ever seen.

Only film I'm genuinely excited for.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Yep, great trailer.

 

[abake]

Awesome trailer.
This looks even better than the first movie.

 

[Mondragon]

Oh yeah, looks fantastic.
Anyone disagree?

Though I guess they think some wouldn't recognize it, surprised what they are showing...

Can not wait!



Also - 'Three-film saga' ?

Did this confirm Dune Messiah?

That would be great, if he extended it to the next book, which closes out Paul's narative.

And people can finally see the twins Luke and Leia, I mean Adam and Adora, sorry Leto and Ghanima be born.

 

[Sassafras]

Oh yeah, looks fantastic.
Anyone disagree?

Not gonna deny it LOOKS fantastic, but will wait and see. Compared to the 80s version - IMO the 80s version which I guess wasn't well thought of at the time, has a more epic script delivery so far. Great cast. Great weirdness.

And #1 had So. Much. Sand. and a few other things I found dubious. But it's fine, so far.

 

[wormlander]

Oh yeah, looks fantastic.
Anyone disagree?

Oh, I strongly disagree (thanks for asking ). Looks to be just as sterile and as void of likeable characters and interesting plot/dialogue as the first one. Who in their right mind (presumably with a whole galaxy within their reach), would even wanna live on that god forsaken planet, much less risk their life trying to defend it? George Lucas wisely realised the real adventure begins when you leave that barren/hostile desert world behind. For all I know the Dune novels might be doing a much better job of making this story seem intriguing and captivating, but the first part of this adaptation left me 100% cold and bored out of my mind. Now, bring on "Rebel Moon"...

 

[Sassafras]

Oh, I strongly disagree (thanks for asking ). Looks to be just as sterile and as void of likeable characters and interesting plot/dialogue as the first one. Who in their right mind (presumably with a whole galaxy within their reach), would even wanna live on that god forsaken planet, much less risk their life trying to defend it? George Lucas wisely realised the real adventure begins when you leave that barren/hostile desert world behind. For all I know the Dune novels might be doing a much better job of making this story seem intriguing and captivating, but the first part of this adaptation left me 100% cold and bored out of my mind. Now, bring on "Rebel Moon"...

Am not a Zendaya fan myself, IMO she is pretty enough but find her acting and expressions limited, and not convincing. So for me it's unfortunate that movie 2 is/was supposed to revolve a lot around her perspective. I don't remember where I read that, it's a while ago. Like, my first thought was I don't care what Chani's perspective is, bring on Paul and Alia. So guess we are getting another dose of strong female warrior.

 

[ZE_501]

Who in their right mind (presumably with a whole galaxy within their reach), would even wanna live on that god forsaken planet, much less risk their life trying to defend it?

Ummm .... you're not familiar with the story or just having some fun?

At the risk of sounding like a pedantic nerd (On *this* forum?! ) In Herbert's story Arrakis is the most important planet in the entire galaxy as far as humankind is concerned. Literally the linchpin of human civilization and economics. The other issue being Atreides were *made* to go there -- duty bound -- by the Emperor.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Ummm .... you're not familiar with the story or just having some fun?

At the risk of sounding like a pedantic nerd (On *this* forum?! ) In Herbert's story Arrakis is the most important planet in the entire galaxy as far as humankind is concerned. Literally the linchpin of human civilization and economics. The other issue being Atreides were *made* to go there -- duty bound -- by the Emperor.

To be fair, I can see how the world building in Dune can easily become a struggle for non book readers.

IMHO, Children of Men is a critically acclaimed book that is a slog to get through and would be a nightmare to film by sticking very hard to the source material. The film however works because it's very grounded. It might be dystopian in nature, but there are major elements where a contemporary audience can relate.

Some stories are just easier to convert to film. I can see why The Eternals tanked. And why Batman just keeps plugging away.

Villaneuve is kind of stuck here. He has to pay homage to the purists and the hard line book readers, but that chokes out his ability to convert some of the rougher material ( the religion / mystical / etc) into something more relatable to the modern audience.

Dune might just have been better off as a prestige TV series. More long form storytelling to establish better world building and character development. Something interesting about the proposed Dark Tower franchise years ago, was that the plan apparently was to mix films and TV shows together. That the core story was way too complex to give it justice in just a few films. Enders Game is another beloved story that is far too difficult to squeeze down into one or two films.

The entire "spice" issue is easy to miss for non book readers. It's a concept that's honestly just hard to relate to the average viewer.

If you have or haven't seen it, then Ghost In The Shell the original animated film versus the graphic novels versus GITS Stand Alone Complex the TV series IMHO kind of illustrates how just more running time helps relatively esoteric concepts to the majority of the audience.

I enjoyed Dune Part 1. I believe Villaneuve is a great director. But the circumstances asks a lot of the general viewing public.

 

[Mandible]

To be fair, I can see how the world building in Dune can easily become a struggle for non book readers.

IMHO, Children of Men is a critically acclaimed book that is a slog to get through and would be a nightmare to film by sticking very hard to the source material. The film however works because it's very grounded. It might be dystopian in nature, but there are major elements where a contemporary audience can relate.

Some stories are just easier to convert to film. I can see why The Eternals tanked. And why Batman just keeps plugging away.

Villaneuve is kind of stuck here. He has to pay homage to the purists and the hard line book readers, but that chokes out his ability to convert some of the rougher material ( the religion / mystical / etc) into something more relatable to the modern audience.

Dune might just have been better off as a prestige TV series. More long form storytelling to establish better world building and character development. Something interesting about the proposed Dark Tower franchise years ago, was that the plan apparently was to mix films and TV shows together. That the core story was way too complex to give it justice in just a few films. Enders Game is another beloved story that is far too difficult to squeeze down into one or two films.

The entire "spice" issue is easy to miss for non book readers. It's a concept that's honestly just hard to relate to the average viewer.

If you have or haven't seen it, then Ghost In The Shell the original animated film versus the graphic novels versus GITS Stand Alone Complex the TV series IMHO kind of illustrates how just more running time helps relatively esoteric concepts to the majority of the audience.

I enjoyed Dune Part 1. I believe Villaneuve is a great director. But the circumstances asks a lot of the general viewing public.

100%, but I think a HUGE problem with cinema today (actually, everything), is that it's trying to be all things for all people.

Everyone has different likes and if people can't get their head around the movie then that's okay, they go watch Fast X, Avatar 2 or something more up their alley and less "challenging."

I personally can't see the economics in Part 1 (obviously they must have gone into profit somewhere) as it only did about 400M at the box office, but it must have been enough to green light 2 and 3? And as someone who hasn't read the books, I was absolutely captivated with Part 1. Bring on 2 & 3!

 

[Harlockfan]

Am not a Zendaya fan myself, IMO she is pretty enough but find her acting and expressions limited, and not convincing. So for me it's unfortunate that movie 2 is/was supposed to revolve a lot around her perspective. I don't remember where I read that, it's a while ago. Like, my first thought was I don't care what Chani's perspective is, bring on Paul and Alia. So guess we are getting another dose of strong female warrior.

I am worried they may change the Chani character. She was very much fighting for Paul just like the rest of the Freman. After all, it is their Jihad. They truly believed he was the Messiah which really comes in to play in the 2nd book. Alia? Has she been cast? Digital? They will definitely need her for Dune Messiah and Children Of Dune. Irulan? They seem to really have expanded her role similar to the mini series. So Feyd has no black hair? Not beautiful? Feminine?

Granted in the first film, I missed the dinner party, and many other parts of the story, but the first film did a good job with most of what they had to work with. It really is some difficult material to try to translate to screen. I loved Arab music in the trailer. For obvious reasons

 

[Johnny Utah]

Delayed to March 15th, 2024. Bloody strikes are taking the piss now.