Gary Friedrich v. Marvel/Disney

[Blackthornone]

I have read lots on this case and did not just learn of it today as others

Not once has anything ever said that there is a specific temp coffee should be served, only it was hotter then server in most homes, thats not saying much. It was a jury who felt they should exact revenge on McDonalds lawyers for saying the truth and blaming a helpless little old lady who got burned.

So can I sue a hotel for burns if I run the water as hot as it can get since the water heater at my house is set lower? Same basic things, I git burned on my own and blame someone else for the temperature.

Most homes have coffee at 130-140 degrees. Most fast food restaurants have their coffee at 160-170 degrees. McDonalds served their coffee at 180-190 degrees.(They brewed it at 205 degrees.) That is 20 degrees higher than people expect from a restaurant, and 40 degrees hotter than people have it at home. McDonalds was making up their own standards as to HOW hot coffee should be, that is significantly hotter than everyone else. There were lots of other people who got burned by McDonald's coffee, so it wasn't like this woman was the first.

Your running hot water comparison is invalid, because SHE would be the one controlling the temperature of the water with the controls for both hot and cold. Therefore, she would know how hot the water is. If it is too hot, she has no one to blame but herself for that. If the water was run by a hotel employee who determined the temperature, that would be a somewhat close comparison, and would be fairly valid.
A person would need a special spill proof insulated box with a cupholder inside to safely put their McDonalds coffee in for it to be safe for the customer.

 

[devilof76]

How dare they serve coffee at a temperature that the rest of the planet hasn't agreed to.

 

[Blackthornone]

How dare they serve coffee at a temperature that the rest of the planet hasn't agreed to.

Most people expect coffee to be within a certain range of temperature, and that is how they define a cup of coffee, and is what they expect when they order. If Mc Donalds wants to serve extra hot coffee, they should specify that their coffee is 190 degrees, which is 40 degrees hotter than most coffee at home, clearly in large print on the menu.

People have a right to make an informed purchase. It should not be illegal to serve hot coffee as long as it as labeled as dangerous as it is. You wouldn't put rat poison in a coffee can, because that is dangerous to people, and they don't expect rat poison in their coffee. On the other hand, you can sell rat poison if it is properly labeled.

 

[devilof76]

I know I'm going to feel dumber for having responded to you, but I can't help myself.

I know that coffee is hot, and that I should not spill it on myself. If I am too stupid to not be able to manage that simple task, I deserve to get burned. Unfortunately for me, I'm not that stupid so I couldn't get a grotesquely extortionate settlement.

Your analogy is a trainwreck. It is not McDonald's responsibility to act as the voice of their customers' common sense. That is not the equivalent of poisoning them.

 

[Blackthornone]

I know I'm going to feel dumber for having responded to you, but I can't help myself.

I know that coffee is hot, and that I should not spill it on myself. If I am too stupid to not be able to manage that simple task, I deserve to get burned. Unfortunately for me, I'm not that stupid so I couldn't get a grotesquely extortionate settlement.

Your analogy is a trainwreck. It is not McDonald's responsibility to act as the voice of their customers' common sense. That is not the equivalent of poisoning them.

The point is not about poison. The point is about serving people something more dangerous than they expect.


By the way, knowing that coffee is "hot" is meaningless.


"Hot" is a relative concept. It has no intrinsic value.

You need to know HOW hot something is, or the word has no worth or value. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is hotter than 70 degrees, but most people don't expect their coffee 80 degrees, because 80 degrees Fahrenheit is COLDER than most people have it in their homes.

 

[CollectorNC]

Wow, from a Marvel lawsuit to hot coffee. Can we next to grocery store slip and fall cases and who is to blame.

 

[devilof76]

The point is not about poison. The point is about serving people something more dangerous than they expect.

What fool makes an assumption like that in the first place? Who expects coffee to be not-hot enough to burn them if they spill it in their lap?

By the way, knowing that coffee is "hot" is meaningless.

"Hot" is a relative concept. It has no intrinsic value.

For most people, the concept is sufficient without qualification to indicate a serious need to be careful. Hot=dangerous, last I checked.

You need to know HOW hot something is, or the word has no worth or value. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is hotter than 70 degrees, but most people don't expect their coffee 80 degrees, because 80 degrees Fahrenheit is COLDER than most people have it in their homes.

This must have been her first time ever having McDonald's coffee. For exactly how many people does it have to be common knowledge that the coffee is extremely hot to register as something she should have known? Since you are suggesting there is some kind of consensus as to how hot coffee should be, what's the number? A ballpark figure will suffice.

 

[wofford29]

"You need to know HOW hot something is, or the word has no worth or value."



Really? I guess natural selection will always be a work in progress.

 

[devilof76]

Is fire really hot? I mean, it's probably not as hot as lava (I'm just guessing), and I've heard blue flames are hotter than orange flames (can't say for sure), but unless I know exactly what it's temperature is, will I get burned?

How can I possibly know ahead of time?

 

[Blackthornone]

"You need to know HOW hot something is, or the word has no worth or value."



Really? I guess natural selection will always be a work in progress.

The Empire state building is tall. Gee thanks, I can see that. HOW tall is it?
The coffee is hot. Gee, thanks, I know that already. How hot IS it? Is it so hot I should be especially careful? How hot is it compared to other coffees?

If anything, it is lack of precision in one's language that is stupid, and being precise in what one says and does is what sets ____ Sapiens ahead of Neanderthals, because ____ Sapiens are intelligent enough to be more precise, and because of their greater precision, because of their superior brains, they were able develop tools, which made them the dominant species. Precision is practically the cornerstone of civilization. "Oooh Oooh Oooh! Hot coffee! ooga booga." "Excuse me, HOW hot is it?" "Ooga Booga grunt, HOT coffee!"



The word hot is relative. Hot compared to what? McDonalds Coffee was much hotter than most coffee, so, although the term "hot" might suffice to refer to coffee that is how hot most people have it, it is inadequate to describe the significantly greater heat of McDonalds coffee, which would need to be referred to as "extremely hot" by comparison to the heat of most other coffee. Of course, you could just put 180-190 degrees on the menu, which would be an accurate description, and not some vague term "hot".

Why not call it 180 degree coffee on the menu, as the description of the coffee, rather than how some restaurants just say "hot coffee" on the menu. THAT would get the point across, and would further serve to set McDonalds coffee apart from other coffees. This is something McDonalds could do, because they are so precise in their monitoring of their food prep, it is so down to a science, whereas most restaurants are far less precise, and therefore cannot guarantee such a temperature.

For the record, I haven't had coffee in 21 years. I don't find any value in it. I don't believe in stimulants.

 

[Blackthornone]

What fool makes an assumption like that in the first place? Who expects coffee to be not-hot enough to burn them if they spill it in their lap?



For most people, the concept is sufficient without qualification to indicate a serious need to be careful. Hot=dangerous, last I checked.






This must have been her first time ever having McDonald's coffee. For exactly how many people does it have to be common knowledge that the coffee is extremely hot to register as something she should have known? Since you are suggesting there is some kind of consensus as to how hot coffee should be, what's the number? A ballpark figure will suffice.

Dangerous is another relative concept with no intrinsic value.

Maybe it was her first time with McDonalds coffee, or maybe they gave it to her at 200 degrees by accident.
Coffee is something that you put in your body, and anything that is hot enough to burn your body that is supposed to touch your body is not safe enough to protect you. What is the point of serving coffee that is too hot to drink without burning your mouth? If it is intended to be drank later, then it should be put into a container that won't come open during transport to where you WILL drink it.

 

[devilof76]

McDonald's coffee served hot enough to survive a commute.

Are you finished being obtuse? In all seriousness, is it impossible for you to comprehend a concept without specific measurements? Things that are dangerous are dangerous relative to the safety of the one in danger. If something qualifies as dangerous, how dangerous it is does not change the fact that it is dangerous.

The actual attribute which distinguishes human consciousness from animal consciousness is the capacity for abstraction. It is a cognitive process that functions to elucidate finer discriminations as well as broader generalizations. The kind of myopia that refuses to acknowledge inductive generalizations, instead favoring discrete, unintegrated data is a suppression of conceptual cognition at the level of a perceptual level, animal consciousness, incapable of seeing beyond the particulars of any given moment. Higher levels of generalization is what gives rise to the possibility of more precise determinations (which then give rise to greater generalization). Human knowledge is distinctive in that it is not bound by the limits of the material present. All concepts are generalizations.

If you can't do it, in the human sense of the word, you aren't conscious.

Maybe would not cut it in this case. Either she had no prior knowledge (and should probably not take the chance of being slob, seeing as she is ignorant of her situation) or she did, and has no excuse. Does it burn your tongue when you take the first sip? Probably would do a number on bare flesh once it's trapped in fabric from which she has no escape, huh? What makes that an assumption less worthy of consideration that the assumption that the coffee is cold enough to spill in her lap?

Her stupidity was not worth the millions McDonald's was robbed of. Feel free to continue arguing that it was.

 

[Blackthornone]

Wow, from a Marvel lawsuit to hot coffee. Can we next to grocery store slip and fall cases and who is to blame.

Well it's your thread. Of course we can.

Unfortunately, owning a store is a big legal liability. This is why cameras are so important. Cameras catch people doing things they shouldn't, like spilling water on the floor themselves and then pretending it was already there. If the customer drops the glass bottle and it breaks, causing the liquid to make them fall, that is the customer's fault. What if some other customer causes the spill and then walks away without telling anyone? In that case, that customer might be liable for any subsequent injury in my opinion.. If you don't know who caused the spill, then the owner is likely liable.

 

[devilof76]

The idiot who isn't paying attention to where they're walking is liable, whether they or the law have the courage and/or honesty to admit it, or not.

 

[CollectorNC]

Well it's your thread. Of course we can.

Unfortunately, owning a store is a big legal liability. This is why cameras are so important. Cameras catch people doing things they shouldn't, like spilling water on the floor themselves and then pretending it was already there. If the customer drops the glass bottle and it breaks, causing the liquid to make them fall, that is the customer's fault. What if some other customer causes the spill and then walks away without telling anyone? In that case, that customer might be liable for any subsequent injury in my opinion.. If you don't know who caused the spill, then the owner is likely liable.

Unless the person is caught on camera purposely spilling something, it's almost always the owner's fault. Like if you leave a hole in your front yard and someone falls in it...you are responsible.

 

[devilof76]

The same howler monkeys Sideshow employs in their IT department have been writing the law, I suspect.

 

[CollectorNC]

The idiot who isn't paying attention to where they're walking is liable, whether they or the law have the courage and/or honesty to admit it, or not.

Store has a duty to keep the environment safe for patrons. There is a concept, however, of contributory negligence, which is the law in some states.

 

[Blackthornone]

Unless the person is caught on camera purposely spilling something, it's almost always the owner's fault. Like if you leave a hole in your front yard and someone falls in it...you are responsible.

As far as the hole in the yard, I really disagree, because it is private property. The other person broke the law first, because they were trespassing, unless they were invited. Ir's unjust to penalize a homeowner for injuries on their property suffered by trespassers,and especially burglars or kidnappers. I think it should be legal to have bear traps around.

 

[CollectorNC]

As far as the hole in the yard, I really disagree, because it is private property. The other person broke the law first, because they were trespassing, unless they were invited. Ir's unjust to penalize a homeowner for injuries on their property suffered by trespassers,and especially burglars or kidnappers. I think it should be legal to have bear traps around.

Have a pool on your property, a neighbor kid (age doesn't matter) fall in and drown and find out who will get sued and likely have to pay.

 

[devilof76]

Store has a duty to keep the environment safe for patrons. There is a concept, however, of contributory negligence, which is the law in some states.

It's bad law.