Gary Friedrich v. Marvel/Disney

[wofford29]

The Empire state building is tall. Gee thanks, I can see that. HOW tall is it?
The coffee is hot. Gee, thanks, I know that already. How hot IS it? Is it so hot I should be especially careful? How hot is it compared to other coffees?

If anything, it is lack of precision in one's language that is stupid, and being precise in what one says and does is what sets ____ Sapiens ahead of Neanderthals, because ____ Sapiens are intelligent enough to be more precise, and because of their greater precision, because of their superior brains, they were able develop tools, which made them the dominant species. Precision is practically the cornerstone of civilization. "Oooh Oooh Oooh! Hot coffee! ooga booga." "Excuse me, HOW hot is it?" "Ooga Booga grunt, HOT coffee!"



The word hot is relative. Hot compared to what? McDonalds Coffee was much hotter than most coffee, so, although the term "hot" might suffice to refer to coffee that is how hot most people have it, it is inadequate to describe the significantly greater heat of McDonalds coffee, which would need to be referred to as "extremely hot" by comparison to the heat of most other coffee. Of course, you could just put 180-190 degrees on the menu, which would be an accurate description, and not some vague term "hot".

Why not call it 180 degree coffee on the menu, as the description of the coffee, rather than how some restaurants just say "hot coffee" on the menu. THAT would get the point across, and would further serve to set McDonalds coffee apart from other coffees. This is something McDonalds could do, because they are so precise in their monitoring of their food prep, it is so down to a science, whereas most restaurants are far less precise, and therefore cannot guarantee such a temperature.

For the record, I haven't had coffee in 21 years. I don't find any value in it. I don't believe in stimulants.

So what you're saying is that we're the smartest species, yet not smart enough to know what hot means unless it's more precisely defined for us? What difference does the degree of hot make? None. Hot is hot is hot. Does it do anyone a service to let them know there coffee is 180 degrees vs. 160? Not unless they're concerned with the number of seconds it'll take them blowing on it to cool it off. You can get third degree burns from 140 degrees, you can burn yourself from touching a stove for a milisecond. Hot means hot it doesn't mean hot but still okay to touch or drink, or play with etc. It might as well be a ____ing warning label. It's not a word you toss aside because it's all relative.

 

[Blackthornone]

So what you're saying is that we're the smartest species, yet not smart enough to know what hot means unless it's more precisely defined for us? What difference does the degree of hot make? None. Hot is hot is hot. Does it do anyone a service to let them know there coffee is 180 degrees vs. 160? Not unless they're concerned with the number of seconds it'll take them blowing on it to cool it off. You can get third degree burns from 140 degrees, you can burn yourself from touching a stove for a milisecond. Hot means hot it doesn't mean hot but still okay to touch or drink, or play with etc. It might as well be a ____ing warning label. It's not a word you toss aside because it's all relative.

A word with a relative meaning has no real meaning without a qualifier. The qualifier means compared to what? It's coffee, so therefore the average temperature of coffee is the standard by which most people judge a coffee's hotness. It isn't hot compared to molten metal, or hot compared to an electric blanket, or how 70 degrees is hot relative to 60 degrees. Because coffee is the thing that is hot, the average temperature of coffee is how hot people expect coffee to be.

A word is only effective as a tool of communication if it's meaning is agreed upon by all who use it. the degree of hotness of coffee is most readily understood by people according to how hot most coffee is, or according to hot most coffee they personally drink is. If something is any hotter than the average temperature that thing usually is, then the word hot is insufficient to describe it's temperature without in some way referencing the average temperature and stating how much hotter it is than that, or by specifying the exact temp.

Most people understand that the word hot is relative to the context, but if the context has been changed, the word is no longer adequate.

If there was a vat of liquid nitrogen, and someone asked if it was cold, and you said yes, that would not be adequate to describe the temperature, because almost no one has encountered something so cold it can make your fingers freeze solid instantly, and break into little pieces if you knock it against something. Someone might dip their finger in if they don't know what it is, out of curiosity, and expect to say, yeah, that's cold, instead of losing a finger. More explanation than a simple word hot or cold is necessary when the degree of temperature is well beyond the norm enough to cause burns or severe bodily damage.

 

[wofford29]

I'm completely convinced you just like to read your own thoughts because you're not making a point or an arguement. You're throwing in all these nonsensical extraneous elements that hold no weight at all to what's being discussed.

I'll discuss the issue. Coffee is hot. How hot? Irrelevant. Individual's definition of hot? Irrelevant. The vast majority of people have no idea what temperature their coffee is being served at. They do know, as a coffee drinker, that coffee is hot unless they order an iced coffee. They do know that something that is hot POTENTIALLY burns. How? Because everyone knows what hot means in the context of drinking coffee. Hot can absolutely mean a lot of things and the degrees with which you can define those things absolutely varies. Is any of that relevant to this story? No. Hot means hot as a cautionary tale for the broad generalized public irregardless of personal definitions or opinions on the matter.

 

[Blackthornone]

I'm completely convinced you just like to read your own thoughts because you're not making a point or an arguement. You're throwing in all these nonsensical extraneous elements that hold no weight at all to what's being discussed.

I'll discuss the issue. Coffee is hot. How hot? Irrelevant. Individual's definition of hot? Irrelevant. The vast majority of people have no idea what temperature their coffee is being served at. They do know, as a coffee drinker, that coffee is hot unless they order an iced coffee. They do know that something that is hot POTENTIALLY burns. How? Because everyone knows what hot means in the context of drinking coffee. Hot can absolutely mean a lot of things and the degrees with which you can define those things absolutely varies. Is any of that relevant to this story? No. Hot means hot as a cautionary tale for the broad generalized public irregardless of personal definitions or opinions on the matter.

That is a gross oversimplification that is too imprecise for me. Evidently, it was too imprecise for the Jury in the case as well.

 

[wofford29]

So when someone hands you a coffee and says this is hot. Would you then in turn respond by asking them to qualify that statement and unless it meets a predetermined level of hotness that you've defined in your personal life dismiss it as actually being cold?

 

[Devil_666]

I think Blackthornone is the lady that got burned by the McDonald's coffee.

 

[Blackthornone]

So when someone hands you a coffee and says this is hot. Would you then in turn respond by asking them to qualify that statement and unless it meets a predetermined level of hotness that you've defined in your personal life dismiss it as actually being cold?

First, if it is hot with steam coming off because it is uncovered, I know it is too hot to put in my mouth, and I know it can burn. If it is covered, I have no idea how hot it is, and will remove the cover in a safe manner to ascertain its temp. Drinking steaming hot coffee is bad for your body, and so I would not. I would put my lips just over the coffee as if to drink, to see if there is a hot of heat emitted. If not, I'll take a very small sip, just enough to wet my tongue. If it is an appropriate temperature, I will drink.

I never drink coffee, but if I did order it out, I would hand them a thermos at the drive through which some places will do for you if you ask. Then I can be sure to get it to where I can drink it without spilling. Drinking coffee while driving is an accident waiting to happen,so that I would not do. Because of this, I would never drink out of one of those covered coffee cups with the little slit to drink from, because that is just asking for trouble. You never know how hot the coffee is, and so it is unwise to drink it like that. However, if I drank coffee and got one in the paper cup with the plastic lid, that damn lid better be secure, so that when I grab it, the top doesn't pop off and hot coffee goes in my lap. If some incompetent person at the restaurant didn't secure the lid before they handed to me, it is their fault if it pops open on my lap and burns me.

That is how I handle hot coffee.

 

[wofford29]

I change my mind. Now I don't even think you're reading what you're typing.

 

[Blackthornone]

I change my mind. Now I don't even think you're reading what you're typing.

Ill put it this way then. I don't ask how hot it is, not because I don't want to know, but because if the person handing me the coffee was smart enough to know, they would already have told me when they handed to me. If they just say it is hot, I disregard that as the type of ignorant nonsense that people say in order to SEEM polite and caring, whereas they don't know what the hell they are talking about, so what is the point of asking them? I don't care if they tell me if it is hot or not. I conduct my own analysis and reserve judgment of the temperature until I test it. There. I feel like saying to someone like that, I know it is HOT, you idiot. That much I can already tell from here. How about telling me some USEFUL information, like exactly how hot it is... Of course, I would never actually say that, because that would be like condemning a dog for having the intelligence of a dog. Why hurt the dog's feelings? After all, it is a pleasant enough companion without being able to hold an intellectual conversation.

 

[wofford29]

So the plantiff was right but you also believe in personal responsibility?

 

[devilof76]

I have officially lost IQ points. Should have quit while I was ahead.

 

[Blackthornone]

So the plantiff was right but you also believe in personal responsibility?

The burns prove that the coffee was an unsafe temperature, and I think it is likely that the lid wasn't secured properly by McDonalds, which led to the spill. To me, all substances meant for human consumption should be served at a safe temperature, which makes the whole idea of serving coffee hot enough to burn to be unacceptable, and insofar as coffee must be served at a higher temp so it doesn't get cold, hot coffee is a ridiculous and inappropriate beverage for human beings to consume, period.

It is unnatural and unhealthy to drink something that hot to begin with, despite "conventional" standards which are not based upon logic or optimum biological function. Insofar as coffee is perceived to be important enough of a thing to drink at the temperatures it sometimes is, and considering how unhealthy and unsafe that is, drinking hot coffee is pathetic and only serves to underline the personal weakness of people not being able to get themselves going without this ridiculous crutch, that if not carefully handled, will burn you.

It is just a stupid thing to have any liquid for human consumption served that hot, ever. Completely asinine when viewed from the standard of logic and health, but to those seeking an unnatural type of stimulation for their weak wills, apparently very popular. Coffee to get you going in the morning and alcohol to get you to relax. Both moronic practices, because both are unnecessarily harmful to you, since the whole point of doing anything is to genuinely improve the quality
of life, and not reduce it.

Mc Donalds was wrong, and as such deserved to pay.
McDonalds was making a lot of money by being wrong, and so they deserved to pay a lot.
McDonalds was MOST at fault. Yes, the lady COULD have been more careful, unless the lid wasn't on correctly, but her fault is the least here.

 

[devilof76]

McDonald's was making more money by having their coffee hotter than average?

I think you'd make a good dictator.

 

[Blackthornone]

McDonald's was making more money by having their coffee hotter than average?

I think you'd make a good dictator.

I don't know if McDonalds was making more money because their coffee was hotter. I suspect it had little bearing on how much money they made except perhaps for the possibility that they made the coffee so hot to make up for the fact that it lacked quality and flavor. A really high quality coffee does not need to be super hot to be acceptable in taste. Lesser quality coffee does. Perhaps they found it more profitable to use cheaper coffee and simply serve it hotter to compensate.

 

[devilof76]

If it's too hot to drink, how is the temperature going to mask the taste?

Regardless, the amount of money they were making had nothing to do with how they were allegedly wrong. The suit was a gross injustice. That woman didn't deserve two cents.

 

[Devil_666]

She deserved to have more hot coffee spilled on her.

 

[Blackthornone]

If it's too hot to drink, how is the temperature going to mask the taste?

Regardless, the amount of money they were making had nothing to do with how they were allegedly wrong. The suit was a gross injustice. That woman didn't deserve two cents.

A beverage does not need to be too hot to drink for greater heat being used to compensate for lesser quality.

 

[Blackthornone]

She deserved to have more hot coffee spilled on her.

The Manager at that McDonalds deserved to have the coffee spilled on HIM so HE could give his opinion of the temperature.

 

[devilof76]

Just shut up.

 

[Blackthornone]

Just shut up.

I think it was a fair response.