General NBA Discussion

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

Giving Wade anywhere near $50million is idiotic, his body is breaking down faster than an NFL running back.

 

[azurepred]

I don't see the big three taking that kind of a pay cut. They already took one and I think now that they have rings they will look a little more at getting theirs. Especially Wade who has proven to be the biggest ****** of the three. If he opts in for the full amount, which I think he will that's bad for Miami. So I'm hoping he does that.

Wade has made plenty of money over his career and still makes commercials, I don't think he cares about the money this late in his career. He prolly only has a couple more years left unless he starts coming off the bench like Ginobili.

At first glance, I don't see that adding up practically against the projected 63.2 cap for 2014.

Gortat can command north of 10 million a year. Given Dallas is rumored to be in play, and the Wizards gave up a pick to get him and probably want to retain him as they played well this past season, I'm not sure he can be had for less than 12 a year.

Lowry can probably command north of 9 million a year.

Even if the Big Three each take essentially an AAV of 12.5 for four years, dumped their first rounder, even if Haslem opts out and stretches as well, even if they dump Justin Hamilton and renounce every other guy on the roster, even with somewhat of a discount, I can't see them getting both Gortat and Lowry.

James, Bosh and Wade can give up some money as they've all made a good amount over their careers. Plus Wade and esp James have endorsements. I think it would be a lot to ask Lowry, who hasn't had a major payday yet, to give back that much against his market value. Big men cost, there really isn't much room around the issue. If you want a decent big man at the pivot who can start and isn't a total liability, it's going to cost you 10 million a year baseline.

I'm not saying Gortat and Lowry together is completely impossible, I'm just not sure it can happen at 4/50 for the Big Three.

I'd really like to see you break down the math on it.

nothing is set in stone, there are plenty of good free agents out there, doesn't have to be Lowry and Gortat. They need a quality back up for Lebron too unless Lebron is interested in playing point, which he basically does down the stretch anyways. Deng would be a great fit.

So everyone needs to sacrifice multiple millions in order to play with an overpaid, broken player for the next half decade. Okay.

Wade is still good for 25-30 minutes a game, but that includes post season, not just regular season.

 

[lukewarm]

Seems to me he tried his damdest to get about 10 a game come finals.

 

[lukewarm]

Expect the Lakers to dump Steve Nash expiring 10 mill for zero salary return, which they can do since they are under the cap and tell LeBron and melo to pick their coach.

Also hoping my celtics land love. It's a start.

 

[Wake]

Expect the Lakers to dump Steve Nash expiring 10 mill for zero salary return, which they can do since they are under the cap and tell LeBron and melo to pick their coach.

Also hoping my celtics land love. It's a start.

Lololololol. And you are questioning MY bball knowledge?!

 

[lukewarm]

Lololololol. And you are questioning MY bball knowledge?!

So you think they won't try. I didn't say it would happen. What's your problem.

 

[lukewarm]

The heat are about to go into the fourth year of repeater tax. I don't see them on any form of spending spree.

 

[lukewarm]

I have no idea what San Antonio's cap situation is, but I think they should try and sign up pau gasol.

 

[azurepred]

I agree, Luol Deng would be a great fit on any contender, including the Heat. He's a plus defender and he does a lot of the dirty work without complaint that every team needs to win tough contests.

Except the Bulls traded him as soon as he turned down a 3 year/30 million extension offer. He hasn't made less than 10 million a year since before 2009. Not saying he's worth the 14 million he made last year, but I don't see him being some bargain signing, even with a slight discount. Could the Heat absorb Deng and find a good role for him? Absolutely. But would that 10 million annually likely close out any hope for a decent center and the rest of their depth needs? Probably.

Hate to say it man, but you are throwing out names of good free agents, but the market value of those players is far outside of the Heat's price range unless one of the Big Three opts out and leaves ( the most incentive to do so would be James, which would cripple the team) or they take massive pay cuts, which as Zach Lowe of Grantland says, will trigger a labor war in 2017 and antagonize owners, the union, agents and all their sponsors. If you think the criticism of James and the Big Three was bad, if they do take these massive paycuts this year to reload the team, they will all be blamed for triggering the league switching over to the NFL model - hard cap, non guaranteed contracts and likely a franchise player designation.

No offense, but for the Big Three to stay together, likely you have to aim you free agency targets a little lower on the quality scale. Lowry and his defense and shooting and penetration would be ideal, no doubt on that, but odds are the Heat will be able to afford Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter, Emeka Okafor and Luke Ridinour.

You keep talking about Wade's minutes, but you refuse to address his issues with efficiency. Whether he plays 36 minutes a night or 25, he is a liability on defense. He can't play back to backs. He will miss games during the year for injury, almost guaranteed at this stage of his career. He doesn't get the same number of calls he used to ( though he still gets far more than he probably should IMHO) He offers no floor spacing and no long range shooting. He seems resistant to coming off the bench and he's a ball dominant player.

Let's say the Heat get Gortat and Lowry, let's just say they take massive discounts and the Heat, labor war be damned, take giant paycuts. How can Gortat work the low post when Wade is neutralized if he doesn't have open driving lanes? There's a reason Bosh sits on the edge of the perimeter all the time. Functionally, good team basketball requires only ONE player be ball dominant. While James has shown he can work well off the ball and mesh with a ball dominant player, can Wade? You can take Lowry, but how many shots are there to go around during the game? Lowry is a better three point shooter and a better long range shooter and, at this point, a better penetrator and finisher around the rim compared to Wade. ( He's just not 2006 Wade anymore, I think Heat fans just have to accept it) Not to mention a better defender. Sorry, you can take Lowry and Gortat, but unless Wade works as a 6th man and runs the 2nd unit, I don't see a Lowry/Wade mix working very well.

I think you are neglecting an even more pressing issue, which is mass roster turnover hurts stability. While Chalmers might not be everything the Heat want, he's played with those guys for years, he knows where Player X likes to get the ball, what Player Y's tendencies are, etc, etc. And that "meshing" goes into team chemistry and team fit. Even the first year together when the Heat lost to Dallas, they were all still learning to play together. Even if you reload with Lowry and Gortat or even Deng, even hit on your draft pick and Ennis and Hamilton turn into something useful, those guys are going to have to learn to play together. It's not just if the Big Three mesh, it's also if they can mesh with the rest of the rotation, which now clearly looks like a massive roster turnover.

Clearly the Heat need a quality pivot. Does anyone really need to argue the need for a strong center for defending the rim and some semblance of a low post offensive option? But clearly you point out that the Heat also need a productive wing player, someone who can spell both Wade and James. That's not something you can buy for 2 million a year. It's not even something I think you can get for 5 million a year.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I am saying for what the Heat need in terms of veteran players ( remember they have the 26th pick, a 2nd rounder, but no 2015 first rounder, little to no cap space and no real viable young players looming for a breakout) to fuel a contender is probably going to cost north of 20 million in cap space, likely more. Unless James, Wade and Bosh each take about 10 million a year, I just don't see it happening. At 14 million each, they can absorb one max guy on a huge discount. At your suggested 12.5, they can probably pick only one of Deng or Lowry or Gortat but be thin everywhere else and stuck with minimum vets and rookies. ( Let's not kid ourselves, most minimum vets are at the minimum for a reason) At 10 each, they can get a center and some other useful parts or a center and a decent wing. Again, maybe a draft pick pans out, but how often does a low pick become integral to a championship team as a rookie?

My take on it, you can't fight the math. At some level, it's about having enough resources to build a team. The Heat are in a corner, their only option is to buy help.

Wade opts in, IMHO, the Heat are done.

The Big Three stay but take paycuts, but not to 10 million each, I think the Heat are done.

I can't comment on their salary situation cause nobody knows what it's going to be and nobody knows which players would take massive pay cuts to play for a contender. After all, Allen could've made a lot more money going somewhere else. Wade doesn't have to be a great defender like he was, he just has to be good. It takes a whole team. You think Ginobili is a good defender with his age? He's ok, but he plays plenty of minutes cause the team as a whole played good defense. Wade is not the sole reason why Miami lost.

You talk chemistry, getting rid of one of the big 3 would hurt a lot more, than replacing a couple of role players. I haven't suggested getting rid of all of them, but there needs to be changes, not a overhaul. A motivated Chalmers could come back and be what he was the last two years. Bosh plays so much on the perimeter, it's not going to kill the Heats offense to have one big in the paint. They had success with Bridman the last two years didn't they? .

There are plenty of guys on the less expensive side that I could see going to contenders at discounts like Ariza, Avery Bradley, Steve Blake, Hinrich, Humphries, Meeks, Sessions. Greg Monroe and Jordan Hill would also made good options for center for Miami, not cheap, but prolly not quite as pricey as Gortat. Mavs will prolly offer a boatload to Gortat, Wash might too.

I have no idea what San Antonio's cap situation is, but I think they should try and sign up pau gasol.

until Duncan retires, there is really no need to bring in another big. They outplayed Miami with small ball, that's where they thrive, no point in fixing something not broken. 2 bigs just doesn't work like it used to.

 

[lukewarm]

Really? I thought the combo of duncan splitter and diaw was the force that dominated Miami in which the had no answer. That's post play. Also not a fix, just a guy whom I think would thrive there.

 

[lukewarm]

So I just read, LeBron opted out, who wants to play with melo. Meanwhile melo has been meeting with Kobe. All the while the Lakers are indeed shopping nashs expiring contract to open up two more max slots. Looks like what I hypothesized is taki.g form.

 

[lukewarm]

Lololololol. And you are questioning MY bball knowledge?!

Absolutely. please keep in mind every childish cut I have made against you has simply been an echo of what you have told me. You come off as a first class jerk. Exactly what I would come to expect from a Miami fan and Rory sparrow? Wow, so you watched in the 90's, kid. Well I've been tuned in since he 70s if you want to compare ***** size.

 

[Wake]

Kinda hard to be a heat fan in the 70s when the heat were incepted in 1988.

But now that I realize youre old on top of stupid I feel pity for you.

 

[mikedanger]

Mavs targeting Pau...DO NOT LIKE

Having him and Dirk on the court at the same time would be an absolute disaster...hopefully there would be another move behind it that would help it make a bit more sense if it were to happen.

 

[lukewarm]

Kinda hard to be a heat fan in the 70s when the heat were incepted in 1988.

But now that I realize youre old on top of stupid I feel pity for you.

I see, so basketball wasn't invented until the heat came. Plus another childish comment. Do we need to compare educational degrees next son? It's okay, I'll pass. Enjoy dwane wade, we all know how that went when he was healthy sans help.

 

[lukewarm]

Mavs targeting Pau...DO NOT LIKE

Having him and Dirk on the court at the same time would be an absolute disaster...hopefully there would be another move behind it that would help it make a bit more sense if it were to happen.

Can you say defensive micronaught? Lol

 

[lukewarm]

It's funny how insecure people can be. I voice a simple opinion on the state of a team (which honestly seems to be of the majority) and someone always comes out of the woodwork screaming your stupid, your an idiot, blah blah blah. Words of hate like I insulted your wife or mother. It's almost as if they attach their self value to the success of their team and if you go against their grain it sends them into a childish tizzy. Maybe I am old and stupid, better than insecure and childish. I love my Celtics but I don't base my self worth and happiness on their success. Obviously as a Celtics fan I don't even like the Lakers. However from my vantage point, they always seem to load up on stars pretty quickly over the years. Wouldn't shock me to see it happen again.


Que childish comment.

 

[DinoDB1975]

Looks like the Knicks are shopping Iman Shumpert for a late first round pick. Might be a good addition to the Heat instead of rolling the dice on a pick.

 

[sarakawa]

Looks like the Knicks are shopping Iman Shumpert for a late first round pick. Might be a good addition to the Heat instead of rolling the dice on a pick.

Can the Heat afford Shumpert?

 

[The Josh]

Lukewarm knock it off. You're annoying me with the behavior and I don't really like to be annoyed.