General NBA Discussion

[sarakawa]

Lukewarm knock it off. You're annoying me with the behavior and I don't really like to be annoyed.

Not to stir the hornets nest but Lukewarm isn't too far off here...but it is def time to put an end to the Lukewarm-Wake standoff...

 

[The Josh]

That's not the point. It's becoming trolling and appearing personal. Just talk about basketball without making it personal.

 

[karamazov80]

Just saw that Melo and Lebron both are opting out. . .can only assume they're both planning to become Pelicans!

 

[lukewarm]

Josh I'll refrain from responding to his insults. If you took the time to read back you can clearly find the instigator I understandvi have very few posts which makes me a third class citizen hhere. Appologies sherriff, I know you don't like to be annoyed. : ) tye dirty Harry vision I got reading that was priceless. seems to me I was talking basketball which is very personal to him.

 

[lukewarm]

Back to basketball I see wade as the big wildcard. Two years at 40 mill or 4 years at 50 or 60 seems like a death sentance. Not appealing whatsoever IMO

 

[karamazov80]

very personal

That's the problem with sports threads. This is the equivalent of religion or ideology for many, and debates get just as heated because of it. But it takes 2 or more to tango when problems go down, so probably a good idea for everyone to cool it and take a deep breath if they get too frustrated with something. Doesn't matter who starts it or who finishes it, if the discussion degrades into insult-laden bickering then it has gone far enough.

 

[lukewarm]

Agreed, apologies..

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Any truth that Anthony's new shoes are being made in red?

 

[Wake]

Any truth that Anthony's new shoes are being made in red?

That pretty much only eliminates the Lakers and Knicks. LOL.

Chicago. Miami. Clippers. Houston.

 

[azurepred]

Really? I thought the combo of duncan splitter and diaw was the force that dominated Miami in which the had no answer. That's post play. Also not a fix, just a guy whom I think would thrive there.

Miami played better when it was Duncan and splitter in the middle. Diaw and Duncan killed the heat. It wasn't post play or big guys at all.

So I just read, LeBron opted out, who wants to play with melo. Meanwhile melo has been meeting with Kobe. All the while the Lakers are indeed shopping nashs expiring contract to open up two more max slots. Looks like what I hypothesized is taki.g form.

Meh, all 3 in Miami will opt out, the only one I see that might move on is bosh since he sacrificed his game the most. It's just a big circus now and not much will come out of it. Chi was better 4 years ago, and he still didn't join them. There is no guarantee rose can even stay on the court now, let alone be what he was 3 years ago. Lakers have no talent past this year, Kobe is all but done, they have no legit coach and their gm sucks too. LA could get melo, but no way on Lebron . I would guess melo goes to chi. Of course the cavs are intriguing with Irving, but again, no legit coach and a lousy owner.

 

[azurepred]

Just saw that Melo and Lebron both are opting out. . .can only assume they're both planning to become Pelicans!

No, melo is, but Lebron is coming to Sacramento

 

[karamazov80]

Hey, I would take it!

 

[lukewarm]

Great read.

 

[The Josh]

Meh, all 3 in Miami will opt out, the only one I see that might move on is bosh since he sacrificed his game the most. It's just a big circus now and not much will come out of it. Chi was better 4 years ago, and he still didn't join them. There is no guarantee rose can even stay on the court now, let alone be what he was 3 years ago. Lakers have no talent past this year, Kobe is all but done, they have no legit coach and their gm sucks too. LA could get melo, but no way on Lebron . I would guess melo goes to chi. Of course the cavs are intriguing with Irving, but again, no legit coach and a lousy owner.

I think it's less than 1% that he would sign with Chicago but I totally disagree that Chicago is a ton different than it was four years ago. Rose I do think will be fine and depending on who they add he doesn't have to go nuts like he has had to in the past.

 

[azurepred]

I think Chi had a better bench then and I think Boozer was a little better too, not that they will keep him for next season anyways. I think that's the problem for Chi, who do they add? They haven't done much since Lebron was a FA last time and paying Boozer as much as they did was a huge mistake. If they don't get Lebron or Melo, what do they do? They need offense badly. If I recall, they were one of the top 5 worst offensive teams last season? I guess they have 3 more seasons to put a roster around Rose worth staying for.

 

[azurepred]

The Spurs have the depth to conceal Ginoboli, Leonard raised his game defensively, Green turned out to be a big surprise with his transition defense. The Spurs can go small, they can go big, they can fast, they can go slow. That's the benefit of depth. But Duncan just opted in for basically 10 million. There's a reason they can afford the depth.

The Heat simply do not have the depth to conceal Wade defensively, he couldn't even defend his own man consistently in the Finals. The loss of Miller, the steep decline of Battier, the overusage of Ray Allen, the injury to Birdman, it all added up.

You keep talking about bringing in names like Gortat, Lowry, Deng, now Bradley and Ariza and Monroe and stay it would just be a "couple of guys" and not a huge roster turnover. And I keep saying, the math doesn't add up. Adding these name free agents only happens if the Heat renounce and keep moving past most of their roster.

The Heat don't really have any draft picks likely to make a difference, they don't have any young up and coming talent like Kawhi Leonard, so they have to BUY help. Nothing wrong with that, but the virtue of buying the help you are talking about is going to force a massive roster turnover. It's not just going to be a couple of guys. Bradley and Monroe are both restricted free agents, by taking a large "paycut", all they would be doing is making it easier for their respective teams to match. And why would they take a huge paycut? They are both coming off their rookie contracts and haven't hit a large ( large to the NBA standards) contract payday yet.

Most of the rest of the names you mention, aside from Ariza, aren't going to be what you claim the Heat need. Jodie Meeks is not going to be able to spell James and Wade and carry the 2nd team offense. None of those big men are going to cause heartburn to gameplanning when opposing coaches try to figure out how to stop the Heat centers. Again, there's a reason why the guys who are affordable are affordable in the first place. They don't typically offer a contending team the parts they really need. And guys like Ariza, the issue is, while valuable, you are likely going to be giving them a contract that bleeds into their decline phase ( much like Battier and the Heat)

The Spurs outplayed Miami period. But they could go small ball or they could use size. You want to be a contender, you need the options. When Dallas beat the Heat, they already had a starting center in Haywood, then got Tyson Chandler. Their third center, Mahinimini, was probably better right then than Joel Anthony for the Heat. Pistols traded for Rasheed Wallace, paired with Ben Wallace, gave them the defense and length they needed. The Lakers, it wasn't just Phil Jackson and Kobe, it was the three headed monster of Odom/Gasol/Bynum where no team in the NBA could really match their depth.

If the Heat don't need a center, then why did you say they should gun for Gortat, then for Monroe?

You keep talking about these players willing to take a discount to play for the Heat and the Big Three and for a contender, what has history shown us?

2010
Mike Bibby ( to his credit, gave up 6 million to chase a ring, had nothing left)
Carlos Arroyo
Erick Dampier
Eddie House
The corpse of Juwan Howard
Dexter Pittman
Jerry Stackhouse

2011
Eddie Curry
Ronnie Turiaf
Juwan Howard's corpse again

2012
Rashard Lewis
Josh Harrelson
(Birdman was an amnesty situation)

2013
Mike Beasley
Toney Douglas
Roger Mason
Greg Oden

And the rules were much more forgiving back in 2010 compared to this year.

And the secondary core? Battier is going to retire, but he was done all year long. Ray Allen has lost a couple of steps and is only valuable as a bench gunner but offsets that as a defensive liability. Birdman was hurt and just opted out. They dumped Miller and traded Joel Anthony for cap reasons. Haslem is old and has declined. The younger guys, Beasley, Cole and Chalmers, none were seen to have stepped up recently.

I'm not saying it's impossible. Certainly the Big Three could all opt out, take big paycuts and buy some help, they hit on the 26th pick and their 2nd rounder, Wade loses 20 pounds and works on his shot and some UDFAs and minimum guys become massive bargains. I'm not saying it's totally impossible.

But just about everything you posit is unrealistic. The kind of help you are talking about, the guys who could really make a difference, would naturally necessitate a roster overhaul. Even without that, the production level of the secondary core and the minimum cannon fodder will pretty much dictate a roster overhaul. The Heat might get one guy out of that difference maker list, and have almost no chance to get one of the restricted young guys. Nothing in the last four years has shown that a true difference maker with future upside took a major paycut to join the Heat. In most cases, the Heat had to pay and give contracts that accommodated a serviceable veteran players decline/fall of the cliff phase.

Saying Wade could lose some weight to get a little more mobility and help his injury situation is realistic.

Saying the Heat can just grab this guy and that guy and no no, it won't be a total roster makeover, is not.

Sorry dude, I'm not trying to bust your balls here, but I keep saying it, the Heat with the Big Three are gunning for rings, the only help they can get is to buy it, to buy it will require them take big salary cuts, to gut and turnover probably 2/3rds of their roster and that's not a "retooling"

You make some good points, I guess we will all have to just wait and see what happens. By Lebron opting out, puts a lot of pressure on Riley to make the right moves. I'm confident Wade will retire with Miami, but he knows he has to take a pay cut if he wants to chase more rings. Curious to see what happens with Bosh. He had some big moments, but he is very replaceable now that he is basically an ok 3 pt shooter and that's it. He used to be a very good mid range guy, who let himself stray out way too far from the basket. Heat won 2 titles with him doing his mid range thing, just don't understand all the 3pt attempts.

 

[The Josh]

I think Chi had a better bench then and I think Boozer was a little better too, not that they will keep him for next season anyways. I think that's the problem for Chi, who do they add? They haven't done much since Lebron was a FA last time and paying Boozer as much as they did was a huge mistake. If they don't get Lebron or Melo, what do they do? They need offense badly. If I recall, they were one of the top 5 worst offensive teams last season? I guess they have 3 more seasons to put a roster around Rose worth staying for.

It might have been a little better but I don't think it was leaps and bounds better. Honestly Boozer has been a nice pick up and provided at a double/double level. They just have bad some bad luck and Miami has been more solid. I think they will amnesty Boozer if they can get one of these two guys and that gives them more offense. They did struggle on O last year but it was a season they played without Rose for all but a handful of games. So think of it this way if they get either of those guys and Rose comes back that's two nice additions. If they don't they will figure something out I have no doubts there.

 

[Wake]

 

[bumblebee]

Is that the goodbye party!? lol

 

[The Josh]

Pretty sure they didn't do that after the Spurs ran them over.