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General NBA Discussion
- Thread starter Bodie The Cursed
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DinoDB1975
Super Freak
Yeah, the Warriors won the first two games last year by double digits...
Durant happened
...but they are way better, having replaced Harrison Barnes with Kevin Durant.
Game was still competitive up until the second half began...IIRC, the same thing happened in Games 1 and 2 last year as well.
Cavs need to get their switching defense down, KD must have had two or three uncontested dunks right down the lane. Somebody needs to give him a playoff foul.
Cavs stars came to play, but they didn't get much help behind their Big Three...and as much crap as Kevin Love gets, he grabbed 21 rebounds last night, and scored in double figures as well.
JR Smith just needs to catch and shoot, instead of dribbling. If Kyle Korver can't hit his threes, he's useless, because he's a liability defensively.
On to game 2 on Sunday.
Darth Madden
You Are A Tooooooy!!!
Baring injury get ready for more of the same next year.
DinoDB1975
Super Freak
Especially since it's being reported that Kevin Durant would be willing to take less money to stay with Golden State. Analysts were looking at Kevin Durant and Steph Curry's upcoming max contracts and wondering how much longer Golden State would be able to keep this team together. If KD doesn't take a max contract, the four starters (they could pretty much put anyone in at center) could stay together for a while.
It's unfortunate when leagues lack parity, but it's not the first time. Things seem to always come around in circles in this world. It may be a few more years before it happens, but it will. I think GS is far from perfect, but it's hard to see the Cavs making it past 5 games. Only way to beat this GS team is to play super physical on defense and bully them in the paint. That's the only way. No come backs this year. They needed to send KD a message early on in this series and push him around.
Shawpaw
Super Freak
Yes. I follow the Texans. Just look at last two superbowls/playoffs to see my point on competitiveness.
This is disgusting. Ratings will start to slide more than they are now.
Unfortunately, the same can't be said about his Finals record. I know he hasn't had the most talented Cav teams but he only went 2 and 2 when he was on those Miami teams with plenty of talent to win it all each year he was there. Making it to the Finals isn't good enough in today's League. Especially when the competition in the East flat out sucks. There's no Celtic, Cavs, Pistons, Pacers, Miami, or Knicks teams Bron had to face like MJ did every post season. It was a war to get out of the East back then. There were multiple HOFers MJ went against. Bird, McHale, Parish, Isiah, Dumars, Rodman, Reggie, and Alonzo just off the top of my head. Which future or current HOF players in the East did Bron have to overcome? The East was far better in Bron's first stint with the Cavs. Today? It's nothing but a joke. Do you think that the Cavs or the Warriors would have only one combined playoff loss if they had to face teams from that era today? That's not even mentioning the HOFers in the West at that time like Malone, Stockton, Clyde, Hakeem, Magic, Worthy, Barkley, Robinson, and Payton to name the ones I remember. Today's NBA is a sorry state of affairs. IMO, anything the Warriors or Cavs accomplished is tainted by the embarrassing lack of talent in today's League. See you all next year for Cavs vs Warriors 4.
I agree, but I think stats are still important. It shows a player's consistency.
IMO, Lebron passed Kobe in his rookie year.
However, I do believe in career accomplishments, so although I think Lebron is physically superior than any top 10 player in NBA history, he needs to win more titles before I can put him along the GOATs like Jordan, Karem, Magic, and Russell.
The whole issue with dominant teams and lack of competition is nothing new. People used to say the same when the Bulls had no competition. Remember this article?
I'd still want Kobe on my team with a championship on the line. I don't care how physically imposing Bron is, I want winners when the pressure is on. Kobe's NBA Finals record speaks for itself. The fact he was able to go back and win 2 titles without Shaq and having Gasol as his #1 sidekick speaks volumes about Kobe. I know how talented Bron is. He is consistent. He is a GREAT player. However, I'd still take Kobe over Bron any day of the week.
As for that Sports Illustrated article...there was no lack of competition back then for MJ. Bring Bird's Celts, Isiah's Pistons, Magic's Lakers, Hakeem's Rockets, Malone's Jazz, Payton's Sonics, Barkley's Suns, Reggie's Pacers, Ewing's Knicks, and Clyde's Blazers teams to today's NBA. Do the Warriors even get out of the West much less win over 70 games? Does Bron get to the Finals 8 times coming out of the East against MJ or the Eastern Conference teams I listed above? Does Bron even win 3 titles? That's what makes MJ so great IMO. Look at the list HOFers MJ stopped cold in his career. If MJ doesn't retire in the middle of his career, there's even a chance Hakeem and Clyde don't ever get a ring. That spells dominance, greatness, and GOAT to me.
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I disagree with you partially. I agree with the Spurs. However, the Warriors only real competition the last few years have been OKC (with KD) and the Cavs.
I understand where you're coming from but the NFL is much more competitive overall. For all of NE's dominance, they have been in very competitive Super Bowls. They are 0 for NY, one hand off away from losing to the Seahawks, and one FG in regulation by ATL from losing that SB. If NE didn't beat the Seahawks and the Falcons, we'd be talking about them in a different light. That all said, we ought to cancel the season right now and just hand the Lombardi trophy over to NE. On paper, they easily have the most talented roster in the NFL. However, that was also the case when they had 18 wins in a row but suffered one GIANT loss.
It's a different league and it pains me ( because I dislike them) but Warriors are a great team in the "new league." Your comment about Jordan's opponents in today's NBA, I doubt would fair well. The inability to hand check and be physical and everyone (including big men's) ability to handle the ball an shoot....i don't see a lot of those teams competing well in today's league.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Players like Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson moved incredibly well for big men. Also, if you couldn't touch player like MJ, how many points would he score in today's NBA. Great players transcend eras. I believe it was harder to play back in the day because the game was so physical. I don't think many of today's stars would be as successful playing before the rules changes. So we are clear, I think Bron is one of those players who would be a great player in any era. Not so sure for some of the jump shooting players on the Warriors.
I think we agree more than we disagree...
My statement was teams of old would struggle today due to the way they were built versus how the game is played today....great players would most likely transcend the gap.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Celtics - Never beat them
Pistons - Got old and not a great record
Lakers- Not the same team from the 80's and Worthy was horrible.
Magics- Not a great team
Rockets - Never played them in the finals
Sonics - only one real Hall of Famer point guard and if not for Rodman the Bulls don't win in 96. Rodman should have been the MVP.
Suns- Great team? Barkley was a great player.
Pacers - Reggie Miller was good...not great.
Blazers - One star team
Knicks - One star team
Jazz - Very good team with two Hall of Famers.
The way I look at it, Jordan literally had the best teams in every finals. Do they win against the Rockets in 95? The Bulls with Jordan couldn't even beat the Magics. Yes, he wasn't the same, but his playoff numbers and percentages in every category were better than in the following years, meaning he never got better as a player, hence he needed a better team to beat the Magics the next year, so no he and the Bulls wouldn't have won against the Rockets, because they weren't good enough to beat the Magics. Jordan and the Bulls were dominant for sure, but I think people like to embellish his competition....in retrospect, but at the time, I remember one of the complaints was how water down the NBA was when compared to the 80's, which ironically only five teams played in the finals in 10 years. Most of the teams Jordan faced never even went back to a finals, except the Jazz.
The only criticism I have against Lebron, is the Dallas meltdown, but other than that, he's played against teams with multiple future Hall of Famers in the finals, and his teams are often the underdog, which is interesting considering people call his teams "super teams."
As far as the whole "GOAT" talk, Lebron is not allowed to pass Jordan as the "best," IMO. By that I mean, there is nothing Lebron can do in the next 5 years to change people's perception of him and Jordan. If in 14 season he hasn't made it clear that he might be better, then no achievement or stat will do it, because people will always find a way to diminish his accomplishments. It doesn't help that MJ has always been above stats, rings, and I guess...logic
People talk about Lebron achieving more rings, more this and that in order to pass MJ, but what's interesting is that MJ never had to achieve more than other players to be seen as the best. Back in 1993, when MJ had just 2 rings, many...including myself, considered him the "GOAT", in fact he was on the cover of Newsweek magazine that year, and the title of the article was "The Greatest of All Time ", which is interesting because Magic Johnson at that time, at age 31, had been to the finals 9 times, with 5 rings, 3 final MVP's, 3 season MVP's, and a post season avg of 20-PPG, 12 reb, and 8 Assists. Yet people, myself included, didn't compare Jordan to Magic. Jordan was great no doubt, and his skills and athleticism were amazing, but so were the dunks, his style of play, and marketing, so I think he came along at the right time as the NBA was becoming more popular and global, and MJ was the complete package. It's impossible to compete with that. I don't know if he's really the GOAT anymore, but he was by far the best in the 90's.
Celtics - Never beat them
Pistons - Got old and not a great record
Lakers- Not the same team from the 80's and Worthy was horrible.
Magics- Not a great team
Rockets - Never played them in the finals
Sonics - only one real Hall of Famer point guard and if not for Rodman the Bulls don't win in 96. Rodman should have been the MVP.
Suns- Great team? Barkley was a great player.
Pacers - Reggie Miller was good...not great.
Blazers - One star team
Knicks - One star team
Jazz - Very good team with two Hall of Famers.
The way I look at it, Jordan literally had the best teams in every finals. Do they win against the Rockets in 95? The Bulls with Jordan couldn't even beat the Magics. Yes, he wasn't the same, but his playoff numbers and percentages in every category were better than in the following years, meaning he never got better as a player, hence he needed a better team to beat the Magics the next year, so no he and the Bulls wouldn't have won against the Rockets, because they weren't good enough to beat the Magics. Jordan and the Bulls were dominant for sure, but I think people like to embellish his competition....in retrospect, but at the time, I remember one of the complaints was how water down the NBA was when compared to the 80's, which ironically only five teams played in the finals in 10 years. Most of the teams Jordan faced never even went back to a finals, except the Jazz.
The only criticism I have against Lebron, is the Dallas meltdown, but other than that, he's played against teams with multiple future Hall of Famers in the finals, and his teams are often the underdog, which is interesting considering people say call his teams are "super teams."
As far as the whole "GOAT" talk, Lebron is not allowed to pass Jordan as the "best," IMO. By that I mean, there is nothing Lebron can do in the next 5 years to change people's perception of him and Jordan. If in 14 season he hasn't made it clear that he might be better, then no achievement or stat will do it, because people will always find a way to diminish his accomplishments. It doesn't help that MJ has always been above stats, rings, and I guess...logic
People talk about Lebron achieving more rings, more this and that in order to pass MJ, but what's interesting is that MJ never had to achieve more than other players to be seen as the best. Back in 1993, when MJ had just 2 rings, many...including myself, considered him the "GOAT", in fact he was on the cover of Newsweek magazine that year, and the title of the article was "The Greatest of All Time ", which is interesting because Magic Johnson at that time, at age 31, had been to the finals 9 times, with 5 rings, 3 final MVP's, 3 season MVP's, and a post season avg of 20-PPG, 12 reb, and 8 Assists. Yet people, myself included, didn't compare Jordan to Magic. Jordan was great no doubt, and his skills and athleticism were amazing, but so were the dunks, his style of play, and marketing, so I think he came along at the right time as the NBA was becoming more popular and global, and MJ was the complete package. It's impossible to compete with that. I don't if he's really the GOAT anymore, but he was by far the best in the 90's.
The Magic only beat the Bulls because MJ wasn't 100% back in it...but the next time they played, Jordan crushed them
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Not true. That's what young MJ fans say now, because they either never saw him play in that series or they can't accept that the Magics played better and MJ and the Bulls weren't good enough.
Jordan's FG%, rebounds, assists, Points Per Game, steals, 3 point %, blocks...etc...was better or the same as in the next 3 years. People like to ignore the facts
Not true. That's what young MJ fans say now, because they either never saw him play in that series or they can't accept that the Magics played better and MJ and the Bulls weren't good enough.
Jordan's FG%, rebounds, assists, Points Per Game, steals, 3 point %, blocks...etc...was better or the same as in the next 3 years. People like to ignore the facts
Wtf are you talking about...I watched his entire career. Even those glorious Slam Dunk competitions against Wilkins
Here we go again........
BurningRage
Super Freak
Well the first half was competitive this time
Shawpaw
Super Freak
Soooooo boring.
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