General NBA Discussion

[Grimlock]

I know that those are his boys..but Smith is past his prime who was mediocre at best that Lebron made famous and Thompson can't handle pressure of a good defense when the game speeds up with someone like KD. Thompson faced joke defenses this whole playoffs and there was no KD last year in the finals so nationally he looks like a rockstar

Ok maybe Mello is far fetched. But defenseive power will help Cavs dramatically and there are a lot of good defensive free agents in the league.

They don't need the money they are giving Smith and Thompson . Let those two go, and defensive stars can come in.

How are the Cavs going to let Smith and Thompson go? I assume they are on contract for more years since they were only re-signed 1.5 years back. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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[Grimlock]

Carmelo is a pure scorer and can create his own shot. Love is basically a catch and shoot player.

Do you think the Cavs need more scoring or ball dominant players? I don't see Melo helping at all since Melo is a poor defender and well past his prime. I think he would make a great six man on a contender, but I just don't think he fits at a starter, unless you have four other awesome defenders to cover his mistakes. I definitely don't see Melo as an upgrade over Love.

If you plugged in Melo to the Cavs for Love, that means Melo is going to need more possessions for his isolation plays. The same thing Kyrie loves to do. That means less time with LeBron having the ball and being a creator, which is LeBron at his best.

What they need is an elite three-and-D player like the often mentioned Paul George or Jimmy Butler. I'm not sure what the Cavs can do to acquire either. Love for PG13 would be great. Slide LeBron to the 4 and start Paul at the 3. That's a more dynamic, Warrior-like team




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[Darkseed]

Even if Cle moved Love for PG13 they are short one big time player and a bench. Think about it Warriors have a Big 4 plus a bench. To compete a team will need something very similar and I don't see that happening in Cle or anywhere else anytime soon

Seriously Lebron is playing out of his mind where the same teams last year Cavs when this series. You have a big 3 and you and a player better than any of your big 3....the gods aligned for the Warriors and they'll be a beast to compete with

 

[Grimlock]

Even if Cle moved Love for PG13 they are short one big time player and a bench. Think about it Warriors have a Big 4 plus a bench. To compete a team will need something very similar and I don't see that happening in Cle or anywhere else anytime soon

I agree it will be tough. If they got PG13 and Melo magically for Love they might be close.


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[Grimlock]

Plus, I think a LeBron is going to start declining soon. He's got a lot of miles on him now.


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[Darth Madden]

Plus, I think a LeBron is going to start declining soon. He's got a lot of miles on him now.


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Yep, hes played an extra 2 1/2 seasons of playoff games... thats gotta wear on you eventually.

 

[guyver1]

Plus, I think a LeBron is going to start declining soon. He's got a lot of miles on him now.


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Nah..Lebron has had a golden ticket in his career . One of the players that had .fewest major injuries in an all stars career in the NBA , he can go another five seasons if he had the right backup

 

[Grimlock]

Nah..Lebron has had a golden ticket in his career . One of the players that had .fewest major injuries in an all stars career in the NBA , he can go another five seasons if he had the right backup

I agree he has more years to play, but I doubt he is the best player in the league in 2 years. Many argue he isn't the best today.


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[azurepred]

Even if Cle moved Love for PG13 they are short one big time player and a bench. Think about it Warriors have a Big 4 plus a bench. To compete a team will need something very similar and I don't see that happening in Cle or anywhere else anytime soon

Seriously Lebron is playing out of his mind where the same teams last year Cavs when this series. You have a big 3 and you and a player better than any of your big 3....the gods aligned for the Warriors and they'll be a beast to compete with

well, if you take away Green, who this year isn't scoring a lot because he doesn't get the shot attempts, a team only offensively has to compete with the 3 scorers in GS. George, Irving and Lebron might not match those 3, but some close. Can you imagine the flexibility they'd have if they kept Wiggins? They might not have a title yet though, but who knows. Iggy might get a huge contract offer this offseason, so we will see what he chooses to do. That'd be a huge loss for GS.

Nah..Lebron has had a golden ticket in his career . One of the players that had .fewest major injuries in an all stars career in the NBA , he can go another five seasons if he had the right backup

Lebron keeps himself in amazing shape, but his minutes HAVE to come down next year. Too much mileage to be leading the league in minutes. His body will break down soon, especially if he keeps playing all the minutes. Take him off the court, and Love/Irving can't do **** without him. I don't know if that's a coaching issue or a player issue?

I agree he has more years to play, but I doubt he is the best player in the league in 2 years. Many argue he isn't the best today.


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well, before the finals, I didn't hear anyone saying KD was the best in the league, so I disagree with those people. Lebron and Leonard can do more with less better than KD imo.

 

[Grimlock]

I'm siding with you. I think LeBron is still the best player in the league. I just don't think he will still be in 2 years. There are several players who could take that title from him.


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[DinoDB1975]

Love gets no love (see what I did there) but he's younger than Melo and is okay being the third option behind LeBron and Kyrie. I can see Melo deferring to LeBron...but not Kyrie, who would be the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves (provide Kyrie stays).

There are no prototypical defenders than can get that available as free agents or on the cheap. The Cavs picked up Andrew Bogut and he broke his leg in a freak accident in one minute of playing time...but even if he had made it this far, he would get very little playing time in the Finals. That's what happened in the first championship meeting between the Cavs and Warriors when the Cavs went up 2-1. The Warriors were getting pushed around and outrebounded by Tristan Thompson and Timofey Mozgov, so Kerr adjusted by going small and playing with pace.

The Cavs don't necessarily have to get a fourth "star" to match up with GS's four, they just need to find the right complimentary parts, primarily on the defensive end. Easier said than done. Think about it: of the Warriors four, Draymond and KD are great one on one defenders, KD isn't as good one on one as those two but is a good defender and it LONG...only Steph Curry is a defensive liability...and he can be protected because Klay Thompson will guard the opposing team's best perimeter shooter. For the Cavs, only LeBron is a good one on one defender.

As I mentioned in earlier post, either Paul George and Jimmy Butler would be, in a perfect world where there was no salary cap and they were free agents, great for the Cavs to match up with Golden State. One option (speaking, well typing off the cuff here without knowing his contract status) is Chandler Parsons. He can shoot and drive, and while not a great defender, has the length and size to bother opponents. Also, he's been hurt for the last few season so I don't know how effective he is now. Another option could be Serge Ibaka (again, just thinking off the cuff without looking up these guys' contract situations).

Deron Williams best days are behind him. Kyle Korver is a defensive liability. While I know young, dynamic players are not readily available, Cavs need to stop signing older, veteran players.

While I'm dreaming about what players could help the Cavaliers in the future, Giannis Antetokounmpo learning from LeBron would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for opponents. But it ain't going to happen, as he signed a four year extension with the Bucks.

And yes, LeBron has a lot of extra mileage on his body, but has been lucky enough to avoid major injury. He's bound to lose a step or so sooner rather than later...but I think he then adjusts his game and reinvents himself as a power forward.

 

[guyver1]

I agree he has more years to play, but I doubt he is the best player in the league in 2 years. Many argue he isn't the best today.


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It pains me to the bitter end that they say Lebron is the GOAT or even Warriors are GOAT team..how can that be if the level of competition has declined in past five or six years.

Could GS hang with Malone and Stockton's Jazz, Kobe and Shaq's Lakers , etc.

Last I checked with Garnett's Celtic run , GS wasn't even in the playoff run

They think Curry's ball handling was great against Lebron..can you imagine Jordan killing Lebron with the fadeaway jumper

And the worst thing is these are experts that are classifying Lebron and GS in this GOAT category

The only thing I would put GS as the GOAT teams is probably in defense.

I'd like to see Curry vs Reggie Miller ( in his prime) in a contest

 

[azurepred]

yea, I'd say no way he's still the best in 2 years. I'm not sure who will be. It'd be interesting to see what Davis could do on a good team. Cousins won't work there.

 

[DinoDB1975]

Wow, it so sad that the Pelicans are so irrelevant that Anthony Davis didn't pop in mind when thinking about players that could help with Golden State's attack.

 

[azurepred]

It pains me to the bitter end that they say Lebron is the GOAT or even Warriors are GOAT team..how can that be if the level of competition has declined in past five or six years.

Could GS hang with Malone and Stockton's Jazz, Kobe and Shaq's Lakers , etc.

Last I checked with Garnett's Celtic run , GS wasn't even in the playoff run

They think Curry's ball handling was great against Lebron..can you imagine Jordan killing Lebron with the fadeaway jumper

And the worst thing is these are experts that are classifying Lebron and GS in this GOAT category

The only thing I would put GS as the GOAT teams is probably in defense.

I'd like to see Curry vs Reggie Miller ( in his prime) in a contest

it's too hard to compare eras. I think the Jazz would get demolished easily by GS, but because Shaq would get everyone on GS in foul trouble and Kobe would be guarding Durant, they'd have a great chance. Would LA have enough 3 pt. shooting though?

 

[Grimlock]

What makes Draymond a great defender isn't his 1 on 1 defense, it's how he plays off the ball. The best 1 on 1 defender on the Warriors is Klay, probably followed by Iggy. A great way to hurt the Warriors defensively is to attack Draymond with a great isolation offensive player. Whiles he's a good 1 on 1 defender, that's not where he is best.

Reggie Miller could not shoot with Steph off the dribble. Klay is a better comparison to Reggie, although Klay has WAY better shooting form.


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[Grimlock]

Wow, it so sad that the Pelicans are so irrelevant that Anthony Davis didn't pop in mind when thinking about players that could help with Golden State's attack.

AD has potential, and crazy talent, but you have to wonder why his teams haven't done better if he is really THAT good. Despite all the injuries, you'd think he'd get in the playoffs. Next year they will be VERY interesting to watch. I'm not sure how he will mesh with Boogie.


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[azurepred]

What makes Draymond a great defender isn't his 1 on 1 defense, it's how he plays off the ball. The best 1 on 1 defender on the Warriors is Klay, probably followed by Iggy. A great way to hurt the Warriors defensively is to attack Draymond with a great isolation offensive player. Whiles he's a good 1 on 1 defender, that's not where he is best.

Reggie Miller could not shoot with Steph off the dribble. Klay is a better comparison to Reggie, although Klay has WAY better shooting form.


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the guys who regularly beat Green in isolation are the big guys like Cousins and I've even seen Whiteside punish him for big games. Warriors have no shot blocking outside of magee, but he easily gets in foul trouble. I say it a lot, and it's easier said then done, but Gotta punish GS inside to beat them.

 

[guyver1]

well, if you take away Green, who this year isn't scoring a lot because he doesn't get the shot attempts, a team only offensively has to compete with the 3 scorers in GS. George, Irving and Lebron might not match those 3, but some close. Can you imagine the flexibility they'd have if they kept Wiggins? They might not have a title yet though, but who knows. Iggy might get a huge contract offer this offseason, so we will see what he chooses to do. That'd be a huge loss for GS.



Lebron keeps himself in amazing shape, but his minutes HAVE to come down next year. Too much mileage to be leading the league in minutes. His body will break down soon, especially if he keeps playing all the minutes. Take him off the court, and Love/Irving can't do **** without him. I don't know if that's a coaching issue or a player issue?



From what I've seen after James goes out for a breather is that Cavs just don't have the defense to match GS intensity. It makes a defense seem nonchalant when the strength of Lebron can score quickly. But when he's not in the picture, GS can take it to the Cavs weak defense without worrying about Lebron coming back and scoring instantly.

GS defense is just jaw jacking tiring..it's such a patented system that they don't get even tired , instead they make their opponents tired.

What makes GS so unique IMO is there ability on defense and then they can quickly turn around and turn up their offense with passing and shooting at the same time.

 

[Grimlock]

it's too hard to compare eras. I think the Jazz would get demolished easily by GS, but because Shaq would get everyone on GS in foul trouble and Kobe would be guarding Durant, they'd have a great chance. Would LA have enough 3 pt. shooting though?

Jazz would get beat by the Warriors I agree. The Warriors are better at every position other than Malone. And Malone would have serious issues covering Draymond. It really depends on what rules we are using to determine how good Karl would be. Modern rules, and I think the Warriors sweep the Jazz...they'd be overwhelmed by the shooters.

I have no idea how the Warriors could stop Shaq. They haven't had to deal with any big man like him, because none exist right now. That would definitely be an interesting series, and I'm not sure who would win. Shaq would definitely have huge numbers though. If we are talking old rules, I'd lean towards the Lakers.


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