General Trek discussion

[davejames]

Star Trek: Section 31 need a tier below Garbage. Holy @#$% was that awful. lol

Wow you weren't kidding. That was absolutely painful to sit through, and the characters were some of the most aggressively annoying I've ever seen in a movie. And there was no resemblance whatsoever to the Section 31 we've seen previously, even in DSC.

Also infuriating that they set a movie in the Lost Era and didn't show us even one starship or officer in a monster maroon. I mean what the hell was the point then? I realize they had a limited budget, but surely they could have done more with the time period and thrown the fans at least a few cool moments to geek out over.

 

[DParga21]

Wow you weren't kidding. That was absolutely painful to sit through, and the characters were some of the most aggressively annoying I've ever seen in a movie. And there was no resemblance whatsoever to the Section 31 we've seen previously, even in DSC.

Also infuriating that they set a movie in the Lost Era and didn't show us even one starship or officer in a monster maroon. I mean what the hell was the point then? I realize they had a limited budget, but surely they could have done more with the time period and thrown the fans at least a few cool moments to geek out over.

I haven't finished it yet, but that's probably the worst part, i's the wasted opportunities. Why bother putting it in that era, if you don’t make use of it?
One of the most important things I was taught in my creative writing classes was, have a reason for where and when your story takes place. My book, for instance, took place in West Virginia in 1997, and my professors grilled me about why it was there, and then, as opposed to contemporary to where and when I live.
I have a feeling if those same questions were asked of these writers, they wouldn't have a good answer.

 

[davejames]

I suspect the time period might have played a bigger role when this was originally going to be a miniseries. But once it got paired down to a 90 minute movie the point of all that got lost.

 

[Pauln6a]

S31 was a bit too schlocky for my tastes. It felt more like an episode of Killjoys but without any sense of irony. It was entertaining but very low brow.

Two things I disliked the most (vague spoilers):

1. They are intelligence operatives who, well, are just not very intelligent. They don't have much in the way of scientific method or logic skills. Whether that's to make Georgieau look more impressive, I don't know.

2. Why do American writers think torture is acceptable, or even effective, let alone a routine part of operating procedure for the Federation of all people? They have so much technology, drugs, telepathy (Deltans were the precursor for Betazoids). I find it really offensive.

I did like the Deltan, although I'm not sure why an espionage agent threw herself into a brawl instead of focusing on her mission.

I can see how this could have worked better if they were a bunch of non-Starfleet mercenaries. As covert operatives, they were terrible.

 

[DParga21]

S31 was a bit too schlocky for my tastes. It felt more like an episode of Killjoys but without any sense of irony. It was entertaining but very low brow.

Two things I disliked the most (vague spoilers):

1. They are intelligence operatives who, well, are just not very intelligent. They don't have much in the way of scientific method or logic skills. Whether that's to make Georgieau look more impressive, I don't know.

2. Why do American writers think torture is acceptable, or even effective, let alone a routine part of operating procedure for the Federation of all people? They have so much technology, drugs, telepathy (Deltans were the precursor for Betazoids). I find it really offensive.

I did like the Deltan, although I'm not sure why an espionage agent threw herself into a brawl instead of focusing on her mission.

I can see how this could have worked better if they were a bunch of non-Starfleet mercenaries. As covert operatives, they were terrible.

Yeah, if you compare this plot to the one from Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, it's like night and day

 

[TheClient]

I'm surprised how low some of you are ranking TAS. The animation is sketchy at best, but the stories are solid. One episode ends with Kirk and Spock sharing tankards of ale with literally Satan!

 

[davejames]

I've given TAS several tries over the years, but have just never been able to get into it. The actors sounded bored as hell recording it, which makes the whole thing feel dull and lifeless as a result.

 

[Paul Arnette]

I've given TAS several tries over the years, but have just never been able to get into it.

Try as I might, I am having the same problem with DS9. I know, sacrilege, right? But I've started and stopped that show more times than I can count. Currently, stuck after S3.E14 ∙ Heart of Stone.

However, this is why I didn't rank anything. I think all I truly love is TOS, TAS, and the related movies, so it wouldn't be objective.

 

[JohnnyStarTrek]

I've given TAS several tries over the years, but have just never been able to get into it. The actors sounded bored as hell recording it, which makes the whole thing feel dull and lifeless as a result.

Shatner claimed to have recorded some lines while sitting on his toilet.

 

[Warthog81]

TOS and related movies are the only Star Trek that I really love. I have watched TAS a couple of times but mostly tend to skip it now. That said I also tend to skip TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. My re-watch is something like The Cage - The Undiscovered Country and then I begin again with The Cage.

 

[davejames]

Try as I might, I am having the same problem with DS9. I know, sacrilege, right? But I've started and stopped that show more times than I can count. Currently, stuck after S3.E14 ∙ Heart of Stone.

However, this is why I didn't rank anything. I think all I truly love is TOS, TAS, and the related movies, so it wouldn't be objective.

That's fair. And the video quality being absolute garbage probably doesn't help.

 

[Paul Arnette]

That's fair. And the video quality being absolute garbage probably doesn't help.

It really, really isn't.

 

[DParga21]

That's fair. And the video quality being absolute garbage probably doesn't help.

Well, when i was growing up my parents refused to get cable TV because they thought it was a waste. So I watched DS9 on fuzzy broadcast from an antenna, and had to squint to make out anything that wasn't filmed in Vasquez Rocks at high noon. You can imagine what it was like for the darkest Trek series ever, then.
So when they put it on DVD I did a freaking backflip. I've still got a lot of VHS tapes of episodes I recorded, so any time I feel like the quality isn't great, I can always remind myself of how it used to be.

 

[JohnnyStarTrek]

I know the TNG Remastering cleanup was a big money loser for Paramount- but you'd think with ALL the money these shows have & continue to.make the Studio- they'd invest in DS9 & VOY Remastering. Not only to keep them watchable, but because of their pop-culture historical signifigance.

Not how Hollywood works, unfortunately.

 

[davejames]

I know the TNG Remastering cleanup was a big money loser for Paramount- but you'd think with ALL the money these shows have & continue to.make the Studio- they'd invest in DS9 & VOY Remastering. Not only to keep them watchable, but because of their pop-culture historical signifigance.

Not how Hollywood works, unfortunately.

I suspect they think they've already squeezed as much money out of those series as possible. Plus the fact they never had a high opinion of DS9 to begin with.

I'm still holding out hope for a good upscaled version though, which would at least make the shows a lot more watchable.

 

[DParga21]

I know the TNG Remastering cleanup was a big money loser for Paramount- but you'd think with ALL the money these shows have & continue to.make the Studio- they'd invest in DS9 & VOY Remastering. Not only to keep them watchable, but because of their pop-culture historical signifigance.

Not how Hollywood works, unfortunately.

I think it was the Newbie Star Trek podcast where they discussed the difficulty of upgrading DS9/VOY compared to TNG, because of the use of CGI in those series. As in, you basically have to hire a team to make brand new special effects for, say, every time Odo morphed, or for the CGI ships on Voyager like the Krenim or the Voth.
So, we will probably never see that for those two shows unfortunately. They're in a weird nebulous area.

 

[DParga21]

This is like the guilty pleasure figure.
SNW and Lower Decks are like... not really in the same universe as much of the rest of Star Trek. I mean, Paramount can say they are but that's just ridiculous and stupid. The idea that there's functional cartoon universes is just forcing the multiverse stuff so massively...

But Lower Decks is great for what it is, a Star Trek side project with nice Star Trek humor.

Putting this here so the mods don't get snippy.
I think LD fits in just fine. I've honestly not seen anything in it i thought was more ridiculous than, for instance, Paris and Janeway turning into salamanders. Or Sisko dancing the Alamarain. Or Picard modeling tights in Sherwood Forest. Or Kirk running for his life from a giant black cat.
The only real difference is that LD is animated. But there's always been a certain absurdity to Trek. And while the a long, loooong time the writers all tried to hide it (Thus why TAS was in canonical flux for so long) I'm really happy to see them fully embrace it in these modern shows.
Absurd can sit comfortably with serious. Just look at DS9's "In The Cards".

 

[davejames]

I got a kick out of the new animated shows, but it would still be nice to get one someday that's more adult and takes itself more seriously. And feels like something actually set within the world of TOS, TNG or DS9.