Government Always Wins...

[pixletwin]

Nope just 1. Me.

Bannister, school this man.

 

[Black@ssB0lt]

Still waiting for Dolt's braininess to answer this one:

Mike said this best:

"This is the kind of ^^^^ I'm talking about. Its the first rule of High School debate to take your point to its most illogical extreme and force your opponent to argue it, not to mention the cue of a lazy debate participant. This is where you expect me to say "Well that's different" and nullify my point right? Well here is the thing there is no law against moving to a commune. There is no law against following a religious leader into another country. It was a mass murder/suicide that was committed. That is the crime. Once that was committed that is when they need to intervene. So YES I am and would have been opposed to any government intervention in Jamestown or Waco or any other extreme cases you want to throw unless a crime has been committed. Once a crime has been committed they need to go and rectify the situation. If we knew in Jamestown that they were going to murder then Yes they should step in because last time I checked attempted and premediated murder is against the law.

Its not the government's role to step in and change because it isn't seen as okay with the status quo. Its the government's role to step in and enforce the laws of this country. "

 

[BadMoon]

So by your rationale, since Pix is too chicken$#!+ to say it, you're justifying the attacks on U.S. soil/citizens by Muslim extremists. Is that how I'm interpreting this?

That was all a hoax.

 

[Black@ssB0lt]

So by your rationale, since Pix is too chicken$#!+ to say it, you're justifying the attacks on U.S. soil/citizens by Muslim extremists. Is that how I'm interpreting this?

I said it I believe it would be murder.

 

[thenammagazine]

That was all a hoax.

Drugs are bad teemu!

 

[BadMoon]

Drugs are bad teemu!

 

[pixletwin]

Hmmmm.... very interesting.

Explain to me again the illogical extremeity I was reaching between letting a boy die because your religion has dictated it to be so and an honor killing.

Please answer it yourself without running under the skirts of someone else's opinion.

 

[thenammagazine]

I said it I believe it would be murder.

Yet without even pausing, you justified it in the same post, making the first part of your statement a copout.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I think it is murder, you think it is murder, and the courts are starting to lean that way. But the people who have faith in a religion feel differently.

1. not sure what you mean the courts are starting to lean that way.

2. people can create their own faith that fits how they want to believe. therefore, society cannot keep an open mind to religious policy that breaks laws.

even something as innoculous as "my religion allows me to speed through stop signs" cannot be used as an excuse to bypass society rules and punishments.

As I said in a previous post, you can commit acts that your religion has established for you...just don't expect them to hold up in court, because the court is a government court, not a religious court.

God can be your judge in the afterlife whereas US of A or a state law has no effect.

I'm a very firm supporter of religious freedom, but dude, its people like you that make us look bad.

 

[pixletwin]

Religious belief does not give you a license to do whatever the hell you want. Novel concept to wrap one's mind around, I know, but there it is.

 

[Badvermin]

You should look it up, I did, it is up in the air as to what the chemical imbalance is allowing them to hear.

It is in no way "scientifically on the table as to whether these people are actually hearing something that is real or not" as you wrote. In the scientific community there is zero doubt that the voices are chemically induced hallucinations.

 

[The Mike]

How could the lawyer live with himself if he defended this families decision, won, and the boy dies?

The lawyer is doing his job defending his client. No different than the lawyers who defend killers and rapists. Its the burden of the state to prove guilt, that's the catch of innocent until proven guilty and sometimes its mishandling of evidence that gets things thrown out and create reasonable doubt. When lawyer start to internalize, that's when they stop doing it. Same when Cops internalize or surgeons etc

An article popped up yesterday where a mother used prayer rather than medicine to try to defend daughter from a "spiritual attack" by demons, that just happened to cause the exact same symptoms as type II Diabetes. Not surprisingly, the girl died.

IMHO the women after refusing care to her child which led to her death should have been brought up at minimum on Child Neglect charges.

 

[Black@ssB0lt]

Really hard to talk with people who put words in your mouth, they just talk to themselves.

 

[thenammagazine]

Really hard to talk with people who put words in your mouth, they just talk to themselves.

Well, if any semblance of reasonable explanation/proof were coming out of yours, we wouldn't need to be interpreting your evasive non-committal replies.

 

[pixletwin]

Well, if any semblance of reasonable explanation/proof were coming out of yours, we wouldn't need to be interpreting your evasive non-committal replies.

 

[pixletwin]

Really hard to talk with people who put words in your mouth, they just talk to themselves.

To answer youself:

First sign when someone has no logic left to debate with.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Really hard to talk with people who put words in your mouth, they just talk to themselves.

sorry....if i may put words in your mouth again, why not just say, "the governments and their laws have jurisdiction here on earth, but the real laws and punishments that mean something to religious people are leveled in a court of higher authority".

That statement carries a lot of weight for me. But it can't be used as justification to allow people to break governmental and societal law.

 

[karamazov80]

It is in no way "scientifically on the table as to whether these people are actually hearing something that is real or not" as you wrote. In the scientific community there is zero doubt that the voices are chemically induced hallucinations.

Of course, all thoughts and feelings can be reduced to chemical and physiological processes, which isn't to say that these things are only concrete, physical processes. That is to say, the argument could be made that God causes these chemical responses. Of course, the argument could also be made that all perceptions of "God" are, in fact, hallucinations not based on any empirically observable phenomenon.

Apart from all that, I agree with you, and the suggestion that schizophrenia is not scientifically understood is an uninformed suggestion.

 

[thenammagazine]

sorry....if i may put words in your mouth again, why not just say, "the governments and their laws have jurisdiction here on earth, but the real laws and punishments that mean something to religious people are leveled in a court of higher authority".

That statement carries a lot of weight for me. But it can't be used as justification to allow people to break governmental and societal law.

Because that argument is based on "faith" which, in and of itself, by very definition, has no ground foundation other than opinion.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Because that argument is based on "faith" which, in and of itself, by very definition, has no ground foundation other than opinion.

exactly, thats kinda my point. No one person can 100% live by just their opinions and beliefs (whether its a religious belief, a moral belief, a scientific belief, whatever). No one has that power. The power lies in the group, the society, the government, the laws established, etc.

I live here on Earth and in America and in Colorado and in Unencorporated Araphoe County and in my South Creek Homeowners Association and under my wife's rule .

While there I either accept that or leave or risk the results of breaking those rules!

But deep in my soul and mind, and somewhere in everyone if they so choose, is the belief that all injustices done to me or all things I've done to others will be judged not based on those arbitrary rules handed down by Earthly beings, governments and corporate creations, but by God.