HBO: The Last of Us

[ironwez20]

I will not be watching season 2 because the game sucks. Proof that not everything needs a sequel.

It’s sad because we really wanted it and so did I . I loved the world and wanted more the characters but I think the last of us 2 is the greatest lesson on not everything should get a sequel

 

[Asta]

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-la...YnydtiYWB2DKROQ6YjmtU5T4UPwBdUvJjw2He_65B6Pfo

The Last of Us' Ashley Johnson on Bella Ramsey's Ellie: 'I’m Blown Away'​

From one Ellie to another.​

BY RYAN DINSDALE

UPDATED: MAR 13, 2023 4:35 PM

POSTED: MAR 13, 2023 4:31 PM

The Last of Us video game star Ashley Johnson was blown away by Bella Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie in the HBO series.

Speaking to Deadline, Johnson was asked how it felt to watch someone else take on the character she portrayed in both the original The Last of Us and 2020's The Last of Us Part 2.

"It has been such a joy to watch her because she’s so good. And I feel like there’s been so many scenes that have been elevated because of her capabilities and her talent," Johnson said.

"I'm blown away by what she's done, and I’m so excited for her to have a space to make this character her own and to put her own imprint on it, in addition to bringing a character to life that she’s excited about and telling the story that she wants to tell within the character," Johnson added. "I’m sure there’s pressure for anybody to take on a character that people know well, and I think she’s killed it."

Johnson also believes Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie lends more to the character's future arcs than her own performance might have in the original The Last of Us. HBO renewed the show for Season 2 after just a few episodes had premiered, with creator Neil Druckmann saying it will follow the events of the second game.

"She was exploring sides of her that will make sense for Season 2 because where the second game goes is even darker and heavier," Johnson said. "It’s hard to watch because I’m watching these characters, Pedro [Pascal] and Bella’s version of these characters, and falling in love with them.

"It’s heartbreaking because I know that life doesn’t get better for them, and she is just so beautiful to watch because even in just these subtle moments there’s so much going on. And I feel like there’s been so many moments and scenes where Ellie’s been able to stick up for herself or say things that didn’t happen in the game that feel good for me to watch."

Things won't go exactly as expected, however, as showrunner Craig Mazin recently confirmed that Season 2 will sometimes differ from the games.

"[Season 2] will be different just as this season was different," he said. "Sometimes it will be different radically, and sometimes it [won't] be fairly different at all, but it's going to be different. It will be its own thing. It won't be exactly like the game. It will be the show that Neil and I want to make, but we are making it with Bella."

In our 9/10 review of Season 1, IGN said: "HBO's The Last of Us is a stunning adaptation that should thrill newcomers and enrich those already familiar with Joel and Ellie's journey alike."

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Couldn't agree more with everything you said. Even the opening of Inglorious *******s is 23 minutes of essentially two people sitting in a room - yet it's riveting.

Personally, I still found Pedro's Joel to be deadpan, lifeless, and dialed-in.
Bella was okay... okay at best. So many weird things with her character that amounted to nothing as well. The scene where she stabs the infected in the head like a psychopath??? Ooooookay... How did that affect the story or add anything worthwhile?

So many little things that make worlds of difference were neglected.

Well here's a different angle to things.

Let's say Mazin and Druckmann were dead set on not having much in the way of Joel/Ellie interaction. ( We get snippets here and there, but that kind of bonding IMHO takes time)

- Marlene/Fireflies Vs FEDRA
- Kansas City Resistance Vs FEDRA
- How Tess joined up with Joel / Tommy
- Early days of Joel/Tommy after the outbreak
- Frank's story BEFORE he met Bill
- Henry's conflict with the Resistance in trying to save his brother
- Maria and the Dam/Hydroelectric settlement and how it started
- More exploration into David's totalitarian settlement
- The FEDRA school
- The friendship of Ellie's mom and Marlene both before the outbreak and after

So many different storylines that could have gotten an episode, to flesh out the world building. Lots of interesting stuff that had potential for limited violence on screen.

I'm a little hesitant to say Pascal and Ramsey didn't deliver, in so much as IMHO, I felt they were probably miscast for this show. (That might be a controversial take to some, but it's my viewpoint) Also some of the writing did them no favors. Also both parts are incredibly complex parts given the situation they are in and the kind of depth they have to convey in only a few short scenes.

Something I've always seen as a litmus test on narrative "bloat" is start seeing what scenes or characters you could remove and that surgical cut would have no impact on the overall story at all. For example, Melanie Lynskey as Kathleen, the leader of the KC Resistance. I didn't find her particularly compelling and her scenes didn't really further much in the way of Joel/Ellie. If you cut out her handwringing and puritanical streak, I don't think much would have been lost. So I agree with you that each scene has to be weighed against it's value for the end goal of the story or if it's just excess.

A good crossover example are films like Terminator 1, Predator 1 and Die Hard 1. All those films are extremely efficient. Each scene matters and it's there for a reason and there's nothing really extra. If you start trimming out scenes, you start to see how the entire package starts to fall apart without them. Predator 1 is extremely lean in that regard.

Look at Rings Of Power. You could start trimming out multiple characters and scenes and it wouldn't make a ton of difference, so it's a strong sign why that series was critically panned for having a poorly structured narrative.

But again, some people really loved this season and some people loved the casting and the way it all ended up, and I'm happy for them. It's not entirely my cup of tea, but if they want seconds, then that's great too. I loved Stargate Universe and some people think it's the dumbest show ever, so we all like different things.

 

[e30ernest]

Anyway who cares because

Spoiler

View attachment 627814

Spoiler

Giraffes are cool. Here's my son feeding one.

 

[jaws2020]

Yeah some of these criticisms are far too harsh imo. Was the show as good as the game? Not really, but it was still a pretty good show overall. I think in some aspects it was better than the game.

The game is still there, you can still play it, this hasn't tainted the brand in any way and at the end of the day this show succeeded; it brought in plenty of new fans of The Last of Us IP and majority of non game playing viewers seem to be loving it. And that's who the show is for, a new audience.

Just because it wasn't as good as the game doesn't mean it's bad. Some people are still stuck in this mentality of "if it's not the best thing ever then its ****".

Yeah I agree Christbh, my GF and I have been watching it. As a stand alone entity, its better than most TV these days. I've played the game, she hasn't and we both thought it was well done. Loved spotting key moments snipped from the game so yeah bit confused as to what more gamers want? I have to disagree with Mandible in regards no character building, there's been some excellent episodes exploring relationships and it lets characters breath compared to series like The Walking Dead. It looks cinematic, I feel like I'm in a relatively similar world to the game, I'm looking fwd to more. HBO still makes the best tv series.

 

[AricJorn]

I never played the game, so I went into this series with ZERO expectations and I must say I thought it was a very enjoyable show and many of the performances were top-tier. I felt the final scenes from Joel's decision to rob humanity of a cure through his choice to lie to Ellie about it was a hugely misplayed opportunity to delve deeper into issues of concent and "greater good" dilemmas. The ending also jarred my view of Joel in a most unfortunate way - I understood and could sympathize with his emotional state, but I ended up liking him far less in the end. That said, some of the individual episodes were very well written and I enjoyed the overall show quite a bit.

I think the problem some people have with the show is a common one - it stems from wanting a television show or movie to be an exact duplicate of the game. But a television show or a film is not the game - nor should it be. No artist wants to make a carbon copy of another artist's work - they want to explore the characters, concepts, and world through their own lens and create something familiar yet new. If you feel the game was perfect and want to relive it exactly as it was, then you should probably skip the show and just play through the game again.

 

[Gipetto0812]

Well now that it's all said and done my opinion remains the same, it's not a bad adaptation, some parts are very good but unfortunately it was too rushed and the lack of infected, violence and iconic bonding moments and arc defining scenes resulted in a very watered down version of the story I love.

Without going too deep, now that I've watched the finale, what you said right here sums up my thoughts on the show.

 

[R_R_X]

Giraffes don't exist so it's hard to make them look real.

I saw this picture on Reddit I think, it was confirmed in an interview they indeed layered the giraffe with CGI to match with the rest of the CGI environment...

 

[R_R_X]

I think what took me out of this show the most, was the lack of emotion from Pedro and Bella. Bella's expression hardly ever changes, no matter how much **** hits the fan. lol
Troy and Ashley showed more emotion and just overall acting talent during their 5 minutes of showtime than Pedro and Bella did the entire season. But I suppose that also just hows how freaking talented Troy and Ashley are. They'll never be replaced as Joel and Ellie....by anyone.
Also found it kind of odd how quickly their father/daughter relationship went from 0-100 from one episode to the next. This is what I kept saying, they needed to cut out the filler episodes and focus more on the two characters this series is actually about...and then develop it into something more believable. But I guess Pedro Joel is just a big 'ol sofite or something in this universe....when he isn't killing doctors. lol
Overall, the last couple episodes have been surprisingly accurate to the game. I just wish we could have had more Joel and Ellie scenes from the game. This season really needed another 3-4 episodes.

By the sounds of it, they're making Part II into two separate seasons. Too bad it'll still suck. lol

It's definitely sad and disappointing to see how rushed and watered down the first season is likely due to the fact they just wanted to get to the second game as soon as possible, reading and seeing their interviews where they talk about how much time and effort they'll dedicate to the second game by giving it multiple seasons and now they confirmed they'l have even more infected when they treated the first game like a prequel or something that didn't even cover major moments due to it's rushed pacing definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[chrisstbh]

View attachment 627977
I saw this picture on Reddit I think, it was confirmed in an interview they indeed layered the giraffe with CGI to match with the rest of the CGI environment...

There was no giraffe, it’s all propaganda.

 

[Wor-Gar]

There is no spoon either.

 

[R_R_X]

I never played the game, so I went into this series with ZERO expectations and I must say I thought it was a very enjoyable show and many of the performances were top-tier. I felt the final scenes from Joel's decision to rob humanity of a cure through his choice to lie to Ellie about it was a hugely misplayed opportunity to delve deeper into issues of concent and "greater good" dilemmas. The ending also jarred my view of Joel in a most unfortunate way - I understood and could sympathize with his emotional state, but I ended up liking him far less in the end. That said, some of the individual episodes were very well written and I enjoyed the overall show quite a bit.

I think the problem some people have with the show is a common one - it stems from wanting a television show or movie to be an exact duplicate of the game. But a television show or a film is not the game - nor should it be. No artist wants to make a carbon copy of another artist's work - they want to explore the characters, concepts, and world through their own lens and create something familiar yet new. If you feel the game was perfect and want to relive it exactly as it was, then you should probably skip the show and just play through the game again.

I didn't want it to be a carbon copy when it was announced, I really hoped it was an all new original story and cast in the world from the games but when it was confirmed it was a direct adaptation I knew it would never live up to the source material because the story of Joel and Ellie is a very personal and intimate one but I had hoped it would expand upon it by including even more scenes between them which it barely did.

The video game provides the player that level of intimacy a show or movie simply can't especially when you are always in the shoes of Joel and Ellie, the show unfortunately rushed through that and watered down the emotions and scenes that are absolutely integral to that relationship and shifting the focus away from Joel and Ellie so many times was a huge mistake.

So no I didn't wan't a 1:1 remake of the game but I did want new watchers and fans to have the full definitive experiencie and connection with these characters like we have with the game and I don't think the show managed to that but then again someone who only watched the show will never realize that which is probably for the best but in my opinion people who'll never play the game will never really experiencie the definitive version.

 

[Jman101010]

It felt like they wanted Joel's decision to seem more selfish and that Ellie would've wanted to go through with it, even though she didn't know she would've died. Craig Mazin even said in the behind the scenes thing at the end that we know Ellie would've been okay with it when that's just not true. They didn't make it as overt that Joel was the bad guy in that moment as they thought they would, but I think they made an effort.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

There was no giraffe, it’s all propaganda.

Actually, there is no sp...... Never mind.

 

[choombaz]

As a stand alone entity, its better than most TV these days.

While I enjoyed it I didn’t think this. There is a ton of amazing tv out there right now and this ain’t one of them, the writing and directing really let this one down.

 

[ironwez20]

Uh oh. I’m seeing is Joel a bad guy discourse pop up online again . It’s 2020 all over again minus the virus

 

[chrisstbh]

Uh oh. I’m seeing is Joel a bad guy discourse pop up online again . It’s 2020 all over again minus the virus

Show:
Constantly tells the audience that Joel is not a good person
Joel:
Massacres a bunch of people trying to save the world out of sheer selfishness and 2 decades of emotional trauma
Audience:

 

[R_R_X]

Show:
Constantly tells the audience that Joel is not a good person
Joel:
Massacres a bunch of people trying to save the world out of sheer selfishness and 2 decades of emotional trauma
Audience:
View attachment 628036

To be fair in the show he's not presented as cruel, violent or cold as he is in the game, the TV audience also wasn't in his shoes so they look at the whole situation with a different perspective, that of the world and not Joel so combine that with the softer and more emotional Pascal's Joel and I can see general audiences finding the ending extremely shocking.

But for me the whole "Who are the bad guys?" discourse is silly considering everyone in that situation was in the wrong, I think the show tried to paint the Fireflies a bit more forgiving with Marlene even saying Joel can take his backpack and offering Ellie's knife but she never asked for Ellie's consent and realistically there would be no way to spread the cure if they miraculously created one, at the end of the day they're all human and they all made mistakes and Marlene's biggest mistake was not understanding how deeply Joel loved Ellie and how far he would go to save his world not everyone else's.

 

[chrisstbh]

To be fair in the show he's not presented as cruel, violent or cold as he is in the game, the TV audience also wasn't in his shoes so they look at the whole situation with a different perspective, that of the world and not Joel so combine that with the softer and more emotional Pascal's Joel and I can see general audiences finding the ending extremely shocking.

But for me the whole "Who are the bad guys?" discourse is silly considering everyone in that situation was in the wrong, I think the show tried to paint the Fireflies a bit more forgiving with Marlene even saying Joel can take his backpack and offering Ellie's knife but she never asked for Ellie's consent and realistically there would be no way to spread the cure if they miraculously created one, at the end of the day they're all human and they all made mistakes and Marlene's biggest mistake was not understanding how deeply Joel loved Ellie and how far he would go to save his world not everyone else's.

I agree. I think people are missing the point; Joel's decision is supposed to be questioned, was he right? No. But was he entirely wrong either? No. The whole point is that nobody gave Ellie a choice.

Marlene knows what kind of person Joel is, had she simply sat Joel and Ellie down and had a conversation then there's a chance it could have been resolved with a whole lot less bloodshed.

If Marlene was so confident that Ellie would have made the right choice then she should have given her the opportunity to make said choice. Had Ellie consented Joel likely would not have good on an unhinged dissociated killing spree, I don't think he would have handled it well but still better than he did here.

 

[R_R_X]

I agree. I think people are missing the point; Joel's decision is supposed to be questioned, was he right? No. But was he entirely wrong either? No. The whole point is that nobody gave Ellie a choice.

Marlene knows what kind of person Joel is, had she simply sat Joel and Ellie down and had a conversation then there's a chance it could have been resolved with a whole lot less bloodshed.

If Marlene was so confident that Ellie would have made the right choice then she should have given her the opportunity to make said choice. Had Ellie consented Joel likely would not have good on an unhinged dissociated killing spree, I don't think he would have handled it well but still better than he did here.

Absolutely, I'm not entirely sure Joel would've accepted Ellie's choice if all 3 of them sat down and how he would've reacted but if there's one person who could've convinced him the sacrifice was the right choice it was Ellie but unfortunately for everyone involved Marlene and the not important doctor decided to make that choice for her and that was the true choice that led to the chain of events at the hospital but if I was in Joel's shoes I would do exactly what he did and in fact I did in the game and "I would do it all over again."