Hot Toys – MMS257 – Back to the Future: 1/6th scale Marty McFly Collectible Figure

[Username]

They break this rule once. Old Biff goes back to 1955 and gives himself the Almanac but instead of returning to a future where he is rich he returns to the standard 2015 as if the changes never occurred.

That's not them breaking a rule. It's the same rule they worked with ever since the first movie.
The movie makers call it *The Ripple Effect*, and it's generally used when someone has travelled back in time and alters something. Think of the ripple effect as someone jogging behind your car as you are doing 70mph. You are driving so you are fine, but if you stop, the ripple effect will eventually catch up. It's shown in the first movie with the picture of Marty and his siblings fading.

In PT2, they are in a race to BEAT the ripple effect in 1985-C by finding out when the timeline changed and Biff became corrupt and powerful. The reason for this is for an important one. in THIS 1985, Doc is in the insane asylum, and NEVER built the Delorean. If the ripple effect catches up with them before they discover the date Old Biff went to, The delorean will fade from existence and they will disappear too.

I think I follow. So there's no predestination paradoxes here, entire timelines take place independently of eachother.

It's set up more like there is only one reality. But it can be changed. It slightly resists that change, hence the ripple effect(Technically, as soon as Marty was run over by his Granddad's car, he should have disappeared as, almost instantly, his parent's will now never meet). The ripple effect allows us to have a bit of drama in a movie.
The exact opposite is true in Looper. Cause and effect is instant. See the instance where young Joe shoots himself. The effect happens right away.

 

[Rambler]

I've seen these movies dozens of times, but the last few pages have blown my mind!!

 

[DiFabio]

I've always assumed that was just Biff being old and arthritic having a hard time getting out of the car but yeah maybe you're right. Marty fading out of existence in the first film seemed to cause physical discomfort to him so this would be consistent.

 

[juanca33]

I was remembering the other day the first I went to Universal Studios Orlando back in the 90's, so I went to youtube and found this.

 

[Rambler]

Awesome. I was at Universal Florida for the first time this past May. Too bad that ride is long gone. I did get pics of the Delorean and Train they still have set up there.

 

[Machew1031]

I was remembering the other day the first I went to Universal Studios Orlando back in the 90's, so I went to youtube and found this.

That was an awesome ride! Rode it in the 90s as well. Sucks that it's gone

 

[BagginsOfBagEnd]

I've seen these movies dozens of times, but the last few pages have blown my mind!!

This thread is awesome!

 

[a-dev]

That's not them breaking a rule. It's the same rule they worked with ever since the first movie.
The movie makers call it *The Ripple Effect*, and it's generally used when someone has travelled back in time and alters something. Think of the ripple effect as someone jogging behind your car as you are doing 70mph. You are driving so you are fine, but if you stop, the ripple effect will eventually catch up. It's shown in the first movie with the picture of Marty and his siblings fading.

In PT2, they are in a race to BEAT the ripple effect in 1985-C by finding out when the timeline changed and Biff became corrupt and powerful. The reason for this is for an important one. in THIS 1985, Doc is in the insane asylum, and NEVER built the Delorean. If the ripple effect catches up with them before they discover the date Old Biff went to, The delorean will fade from existence and they will disappear too.





It's set up more like there is only one reality. But it can be changed. It slightly resists that change, hence the ripple effect(Technically, as soon as Marty was run over by his Granddad's car, he should have disappeared as, almost instantly, his parent's will now never meet). The ripple effect allows us to have a bit of drama in a movie.
The exact opposite is true in Looper. Cause and effect is instant. See the instance where young Joe shoots himself. The effect happens right away.

The ripple effect could apply in the Terminator universe aswell. We've often discussed this in various Terminator threads - once Skynet sends it's Terminator through time why isn't the effect in the future instantaneous? How is it that the resistance has any time at all to respond by sending back protectors? I think the theory we came up with was that the time displacement machine created a kind of bubble inside of which everything would remain unchanged for a certain amount of time (or something), so, assuming the resistance were already inside the facility, inside this bubble, they would have time to counteract Skynet.

But perhaps the idea is that there is a more general ripple effect there too, not necessarily tied to the time displacement machine specifically.

 

[snoop101]

Waitlist converted!!!

 

[Username]

The ripple effect could apply in the Terminator universe aswell. We've often discussed this in various Terminator threads - once Skynet sends it's Terminator through time why isn't the effect in the future instantaneous? How is it that the resistance has any time at all to respond by sending back protectors? I think the theory we came up with was that the time displacement machine created a kind of bubble inside of which everything would remain unchanged for a certain amount of time (or something), so, assuming the resistance were already inside the facility, inside this bubble, they would have time to counteract Skynet.

But perhaps the idea is that there is a more general ripple effect there too, not necessarily tied to the time displacement machine specifically.

I have talked about this to a few friends and it comes down to what you prefer to think of as the easiest method to describe it. No-one can ever be 100% correct in their assumptions. But brainstorming about it is one of the most fun parts of a well told storyline(Very much like the line in the original movie where Silberman says: "You see how this part doesn't require any proof at all?" talking about Reese and his story of the future, the Terminator movies work best when they give you hardly any info).
But, in my own chats with terminator fans(And my own reading of MANY time travel novels and watching of time travel movies), i have a few ideas of my own in this regard.
In the BTTF movies, the ripple effect catches up to the characters travelling in time. Doesn't matter where they are. Ripples catch them up in due time.
In the Terminator movies, the timeline unfolds in real time. So, if you send someone back to 1955 in the terminator universe, it doesn't instantly ripple forward as, subjectively and for all intents and purposes, 1955 has become the present. Like you say, if the Terminator universe worked like BTTF, when someone was sent back through time, everything should instantly change in the place with the time machine(And to be fair, we have no idea this *isn't* the case, having never been shown that part of the movies).
Instead, it would appear the person sent back in time(Lets say Reese), is now at the crest of the wave of time, and forging a new path with every decision he makes. Only when time gets back to 2029 in due course would Reese(Had he survived), see if things had unfolded as before or differently as a result of his actions.
The grim reality is that there *is* a way for Skynet to win. When the humans seem to have won, and are destroying Skynet's defense grid, instead of sending back the terminator, Skynet should have destroyed the time travel device.
It's fun to talk about time travel. It might not be actually possible, but it makes for a great discussion.

 

[joefan10]

I wouldn't mind if HT didn't make figs from the 3rd movie, didn't care too much for it. I guess it tied up a few of the loose ends and all.

Personally I think the second movie is one of the best sequels ever made, very nearly as good as the original.

I love the bit where old Biff meets his younger self. 'Get the hell out of my car old man'

I so hope HT make a Biff, we need the bad guy from this franchise.

Now see, my favorite Biff phrase from BTTF 2 was when he tells old Biff to make like a tree and get out of his car...And old Biff smacks him in the back of the head and yells "it's make like a tree and LEAVE...You sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong"...Always cracks me up...

Have to admit, Biff was definately the most versatile character in the series...From fat, middle aged biff...to 50's teen...To wrinkly old man....To scruffy western outlaw...

 

[Merc]

Anyone else pre-order from Imagination Hobby & Collection? I haven't been contacted about the deposit yet and was wondering if anyone had.

 

[AIR]

I had a dream last night that Biff Tannen was going to kill me

 

[Wake]

I have talked about this to a few friends and it comes down to what you prefer to think of as the easiest method to describe it. No-one can ever be 100% correct in their assumptions. But brainstorming about it is one of the most fun parts of a well told storyline(Very much like the line in the original movie where Silberman says: "You see how this part doesn't require any proof at all?" talking about Reese and his story of the future, the Terminator movies work best when they give you hardly any info).
But, in my own chats with terminator fans(And my own reading of MANY time travel novels and watching of time travel movies), i have a few ideas of my own in this regard.
In the BTTF movies, the ripple effect catches up to the characters travelling in time. Doesn't matter where they are. Ripples catch them up in due time.
In the Terminator movies, the timeline unfolds in real time. So, if you send someone back to 1955 in the terminator universe, it doesn't instantly ripple forward as, subjectively and for all intents and purposes, 1955 has become the present. Like you say, if the Terminator universe worked like BTTF, when someone was sent back through time, everything should instantly change in the place with the time machine(And to be fair, we have no idea this *isn't* the case, having never been shown that part of the movies).
Instead, it would appear the person sent back in time(Lets say Reese), is now at the crest of the wave of time, and forging a new path with every decision he makes. Only when time gets back to 2029 in due course would Reese(Had he survived), see if things had unfolded as before or differently as a result of his actions.
The grim reality is that there *is* a way for Skynet to win. When the humans seem to have won, and are destroying Skynet's defense grid, instead of sending back the terminator, Skynet should have destroyed the time travel device.
It's fun to talk about time travel. It might not be actually possible, but it makes for a great discussion.

Agreed! I'm working on a television series idea I'm developing. One of the themes is the notion of the time continuum. Would going back in time instantly alter the future? Or would it take drastic change whilst in the past because destiny will reshape to fit the new mold... meaning the breadth of time is unchangeable only the details can be altered... OR... (and this is my favorite possibility)... time doesn't not work in a linear fashion. Every decision creates an alternate timeline... like a branch on a tree. Just because you go back to the root of the branch and take a diverging path it doesn't destroy the previous branch only you travel down a new one.

 

[pixletwin]

I subscribe to the Doctor Who view that the course of time largely rights itself when there is intervention. But there may be a few "fixed points" in time which, if altered, would have devastating effects on the course of history.

 

[Username]

Agreed! I'm working on a television series idea I'm developing. One of the themes is the notion of the time continuum. Would going back in time instantly alter the future? Or would it take drastic change whilst in the past because destiny will reshape to fit the new mold... meaning the breadth of time is unchangeable only the details can be altered... OR... (and this is my favorite possibility)... time doesn't not work in a linear fashion. Every decision creates an alternate timeline... like a branch on a tree. Just because you go back to the root of the branch and take a diverging path it doesn't destroy the previous branch only you travel down a new one.

Sounds like a great idea. I am a big time travel fan. I'd love to hear more about this.
Also, have you ever read "The Man Who folded himself"? Very similar themes there.

 

[Wake]

I subscribe to the Doctor Who view that the course of time largely rights itself when there is intervention. But there may be a few "fixed points" in time which, if altered, would have devastating effects on the course of history.

Yes that's the 'Time refilling the mold' theory. The second of three possibilities. With the first being BTTF-like in consequence and the third being the 'branch' theory.

Sounds like a great idea. I am a big time travel fan. I'd love to hear more about this.
Also, have you ever read "The Man Who folded himself"? Very similar themes there.

I'll have to look into the book! Thanks for the recommendation!

What's interesting about the Time as a Tree theory is that if your goal in returning in time is to profit or 'fix' something... you aren't really changing anything. Merely creating a new parallel reality. Perhaps in every divergent path originating from your change the 'error' you came back in time to 'fix' would be corrected but alas the world you came from would be the same. This would invalidate Skynet's plans wouldn't it? Skynet must be banking on time travel working in one of the other two ways. In essence playing the percentages (66.6 percent). Sounds like something a machine would do huh? In a lot of ways its an evolutionary way of thinking about time. The 'fittest' decisions are carried into the most timelines. Say a timeline where say the universe collapsed on itself wouldn't have many divergent paths now would it

 

[Leon 911]

i wld agree with the tree and branch analogy. I would assume a parallel alternate "ALTERED" universe / time wrap. The kewl part wld be that there is someone like me in the other parallel universe... still buying "MW" figures and bugger may have a better collection than me... damn it!

Agreed! I'm working on a television series idea I'm developing. One of the themes is the notion of the time continuum. Would going back in time instantly alter the future? Or would it take drastic change whilst in the past because destiny will reshape to fit the new mold... meaning the breadth of time is unchangeable only the details can be altered... OR... (and this is my favorite possibility)... time doesn't not work in a linear fashion. Every decision creates an alternate timeline... like a branch on a tree. Just because you go back to the root of the branch and take a diverging path it doesn't destroy the previous branch only you travel down a new one.

 

[Username]

I'll have to look into the book! Thanks for the recommendation!

No worries. I have a copy of the audiobook i think if you want the files.

What's interesting about the Time as a Tree theory is that if your goal in returning in time is to profit or 'fix' something... you aren't really changing anything. Merely creating a new parallel reality. Perhaps in every divergent path originating from your change the 'error' you came back in time to 'fix' would be corrected but alas the world you came from would be the same. This would invalidate Skynet's plans wouldn't it? Skynet must be banking on time travel working in one of the other two ways. In essence playing the percentages (66.6 percent). Sounds like something a machine would do huh? In a lot of ways its an evolutionary way of thinking about time. The 'fittest' decisions are carried into the most timelines. Say a timeline where say the universe collapsed on itself wouldn't have many divergent paths now would it

It does sound like something a machine would do.
In the novel i mentioned above, the main character goes back and changes certain things, then goes back further and changes other things. He changes so much that it is now impossible for him to negate the chages he made, and this new timeline he is in is one that means it's impossible for him to have been born in the first place. He can still change time and travel around, but could never travel and "meet his younger self", although he *can* still bump into time travelling versions of himself.

 

[Leon 911]

dont have an answer to that though... cause no clue how that would work...

The ripple effect could apply in the Terminator universe aswell. We've often discussed this in various Terminator threads - once Skynet sends it's Terminator through time why isn't the effect in the future instantaneous? How is it that the resistance has any time at all to respond by sending back protectors? I think the theory we came up with was that the time displacement machine created a kind of bubble inside of which everything would remain unchanged for a certain amount of time (or something), so, assuming the resistance were already inside the facility, inside this bubble, they would have time to counteract Skynet.

But perhaps the idea is that there is a more general ripple effect there too, not necessarily tied to the time displacement machine specifically.