1/6 Hot Toys BvS: Dawn of Justice - Superman

[Chuck72586]

I think it was stupid to kill him off this early anyway. Doomsday should have been a villain later on in the DCCU.

Unfortunately, it tends to happen when a studio's only goal is desperately trying to play catch up to it's competitor.

 

[dominishin]

what consequence is in BVS?

Superman will come back in the next movie.

Doomsday was wasted.

Superman's death was wasted.

 

[Tourist]

what consequence is in BVS?

Superman will come back in the next movie.

Doomsday was wasted.

Superman's death was wasted.

Just out of curiosity, did you really expect or want Superman to stay dead?
How was his death wasted, and how do you propose they should have handled it so it was "not wasted"?

 

[SilverStar17]

So, from what I glean from the last two pages of posts:

- Civil War/MCU movies sucked because there weren't/aren't any serious consequences.
- DCEU/BvS had consequences happen too early in the storyline.
- The consequences that BvS had sucked because Superman is going to come back to life anyway.

No wonder these filmmakers have a difficult time getting these films "right".

 

[dominishin]

Not jam the doomsday storyline right at the end of a already muddled movie?

This movie could be called Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Justice: Doomsday: Knightmare: Brain damaged Lex.

Superman could've been out of the picture for another movie at least.

 

[Chuck72586]

Just out of curiosity, did you really expect or want Superman to stay dead?
How was his death wasted, and how do you propose they should have handled it so it was "not wasted"?

Actually establishing Superman first probably would have helped. Not making him such a loner outcast who seemingly has no relationships or friendships to anyone outside of Lois, and his mother. I mean, Pete Ross, Perry, Jenny, and even Lana Lang were at his funeral, but you really don't get a sense of their loss because none of those relationships were established. Maybe give him more positive interactions with the people he saves, rather then just portraying him as some god in the sky with no personality or connection to humanity. That way you might actually believe the world really is mourning his loss. As is, it's just tough to imagine very many people being too upset the guy is gone.

I mean, Snyder, and everyone else involved with the film would tell you Superman still wasn't fully formed in this movie. So, if that's the case, why do his death? It's just not going to have the same impact that it could have if they actually took their time, and established him in another movie or two.

 

[Chuck72586]

So, from what I glean from the last two pages of posts:

- Civil War/MCU movies sucked because there weren't/aren't any serious consequences.
- DCEU/BvS had consequences happen too early in the storyline.
- The consequences that BvS had sucked because Superman is going to come back to life anyway.

No wonder these filmmakers have a difficult time getting these films "right".

If I remember correctly the general consensus when rumors started swirling that Doomsday might be in BvS was something like, "Really? Doomsday? Seems kind of early." or, "Doomsday is going to be in this? It's only the second movie. There's no way they're going to kill Superman already." I just don't don't remember many people thinking it was a brilliant idea or that it was the right time to do it.

 

[Tourist]

Not jam the doomsday storyline right at the end of a already muddled movie?

This movie could be called Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Justice: Doomsday: Knightmare: Brain damaged Lex.

Superman could've been out of the picture for another movie at least.

This does not answer my question.

 

[davejames]

As much as I've grown to like BvS, I have to agree Superman's death at the end still doesn't pack the kind of emotional punch I'd expect it to, and feels like something added more for shock value than anything else.

 

[WhoaItsJBot]

Actually establishing Superman first probably would have helped. Not making him such a loner outcast who seemingly has no relationships or friendships to anyone outside of Lois, and his mother. I mean, Pete Ross, Perry, Jenny, and even Lana Lang were at his funeral, but you really don't get a sense of their loss because none of those relationships were established. Maybe give him more positive interactions with the people he saves, rather then just portraying him as some god in the sky with no personality or connection to humanity. That way you might actually believe the world really is mourning his loss. As is, it's just tough to imagine very many people being too upset the guy is gone.

I mean, Snyder, and everyone else involved with the film would tell you Superman still wasn't fully formed in this movie. So, if that's the case, why do his death? It's just not going to have the same impact that it could have if they actually took their time, and established him in another movie or two.

Exactly. After BvS came out, I rewatched Superman Returns for the first time in years... It was better than I remember it being. For whatever faults it has, it does have a lot of heart. Portrays the world's adoration towards an established Superman very well.

In BvS most of the movie drags on about how people hate and fear him, questioning if he should even be here. That anti-Superman theme felt neverending, and all of a sudden he dies and people mourn him? The only one that was shown to care about him as Superman was Lois, even Martha encouraged him to take off the suit for good.

Doomsday should have appeared several movies down the line, perhaps after the JLA face Darkseid and he is held in high regard by everyone. The love and adoration that is shown in SR is what is needed to make his death have impact, and it was completely absent in BvS. Doomsday and his death were completely wasted. Seems like even the studio views it with impatience, already planning MOS 2.

 

[SilverStar17]

It (Superman's death) did for me personally. I actually thought his death carried more weight and emotion having him die for a world that repeatedly told him it rejected hope and absolute good, but yet he never gave up on us as a whole and the people who believed in him and reminded him that we are worth fighting/dying for.

Absolute being the key word, because I think our society struggles in dealing with absolutes. So to me, it made sense that our world and society would reject something that is as absolute as Superman. Whether it be absolute good or absolute power.

Same with Captain America because he's intended to stand for something that is absolute and I think that's why his films tend to be a bit more serious than other MCU films. I actually think these filmmakers go to great lengths to essentially use many of these characters as a microscope for us to view the world.

 

[Tourist]

If I remember correctly the general consensus when rumors started swirling that Doomsday might be in BvS was something like, "Really? Doomsday? Seems kind of early." or, "Doomsday is going to be in this? It's only the second movie. There's no way they're going to kill Superman already." I just don't don't remember many people thinking it was a brilliant idea or that it was the right time to do it.

So you're going with people's reactions to early rumors.
Ask yourself, what in this context do "kind of early" or "already" mean?
These comments would only work if things were finite and Superman stayed dead after his encounter with Doomsday.
No one ever expected him to stay dead, not in the comics 20 years ago and not in the movies so it doesn't matter when this adventure happens.
Doomsday was never a particularly interesting villain, there's really no need to keep him for later.

 

[SilverStar17]

So you're going with people's reactions to early rumors.
Ask yourself, what in this context do "kind of early" or "already" mean?
These comments would only work if things were finite and Superman stayed dead after his encounter with Doomsday.
No one ever expected him to stay dead, not in the comics 20 years ago and not in the movies so it doesn't matter when this adventure happens.
Doomsday was never a particularly interesting villain, there's really no need to keep him for later.

When you think about it, he's pretty one dimensional and exists in the storyline really for only one purpose: To kill Superman. Once he's done that, he's not really integral to the story anymore.

 

[Tourist]

Actually establishing Superman first probably would have helped. Not making him such a loner outcast who seemingly has no relationships or friendships to anyone outside of Lois, and his mother. I mean, Pete Ross, Perry, Jenny, and even Lana Lang were at his funeral, but you really don't get a sense of their loss because none of those relationships were established. Maybe give him more positive interactions with the people he saves, rather then just portraying him as some god in the sky with no personality or connection to humanity. That way you might actually believe the world really is mourning his loss. As is, it's just tough to imagine very many people being too upset the guy is gone.

I mean, Snyder, and everyone else involved with the film would tell you Superman still wasn't fully formed in this movie. So, if that's the case, why do his death? It's just not going to have the same impact that it could have if they actually took their time, and established him in another movie or two.

It's a matter of opinion, Superman was sufficiently established for me after MOS.
Just like us, fictional characters are never "fully formed" that's why there's room for growth and development.
Thankfully Snyder understands that.

 

[Helghan]

When you think about it, he's pretty one dimensional and exists in the storyline really for only one purpose: To kill Superman. Once he's done that, he's not really integral to the story anymore.

Superman's death in BVS works perfectly well in the context of the movie. The acceptance of metahumans and motivating characters going forward. I also loved Lex Luthor. Dude wasn't going to leave anything to chance. He really played to win.

 

[Helghan]

It's a matter of opinion, Superman was sufficiently established for me after MOS.
Just like us, fictional characters are never "fully formed" that's why there's room for growth and development.
Thankfully Snyder understands that.

That's my problem with a lot of sequels. They've already formed the character, so the sequel ends up being some pointless retread with a few minutes of throw away development.

 

[SilverStar17]

Superman's death in BVS works perfectly well in the context of the movie. The acceptance of metahumans and motivating characters going forward. I also loved Lex Luthor. Dude wasn't going to leave anything to chance. He really played to win.

My sentiments as well.

 

[WhoaItsJBot]

I'll find it hard to sit through another of Luthor's rants in the theater. Maybe Eisenberg will play him differently from here on out, who knows.

So far best villain to me in the DCCU is Faora, don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[SilverStar17]

Ah some people forget though Eisenberg isn't Luthor, he's Luthor Jr.

 

[jeans_4484]

Just out of curiosity, did you really expect or want Superman to stay dead?
How was his death wasted, and how do you propose they should have handled it so it was "not wasted"?

I do like the idea from AngryJoeShow; if they wait for like 3 or 4 movies more, have Wonder Woman movie, Aquaman movie, and maybe Flash movie, follow by Justice League where they trow in Doomsday and kill Superman, we will have an emotional scene where the whole Justice League morning the lose of their comrade.