Hot Toys - MMS 106 - Alien - BIG CHAP collectible figure

[wookster]

I do not apologize for voicing my opinion. Hot Toys visits this site...we all know that. They've seen us expressing our desire for AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE sculpt of the original Alien. And THIS is what we get?

Hell Wookster, you yourself said that you'd sent reference pics in the past. They had EVERY oportunity to make this as accurate of a figure as they did the Predator.

But, they chose to ignore all of that in favor of an artistic version.

Constructive criticism is to be applauded, but-

This thing, as is, sucks huge wet sack.

Is just childish. Do you not agree?
And it was this that I was talking about!

 

[Infiltrator]

The point is not to get "what you saw in the movie". Hell, if that was the case, Hot Toys Wolf Pred and Predalien would be completely black and devoid of detail.

Ok, I got your point. However, I don't think that most people who buy this item (not the hard core fans who do the research and are as knowledgeable as you are) will be pretty happy with this item. I hope you are not this exacting on other items. I doubt many products would be able to meet your high standards. This isn't a negative toward you. I understand the passion for perfection, I just find it hard to find, so I am more forgiving/flexible on things.

 

[ChaserFan]

They've seen us expressing our desire for AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE sculpt of the original Alien. And THIS is what we get?

Hell Wookster, you yourself said that you'd sent reference pics in the past. They had EVERY oportunity to make this as accurate of a figure as they did the Predator.

But, they chose to ignore all of that in favor of an artistic version.

It's only a proto HT made before any of these altered pics or reference shots were even sent to them! Saying that HT had every opportunity is untrue. News of this figure was only released, what, 3 weeks ago? You expect HT to fix everything in 3 weeks? Give it about 3 MONTHS for updated pics. This is why it says "Product not final".

 

[The Ween]

I already pre-ordered it and the only thing I don't care for much is the teeth.

 

[Devil_666]

Ok, I got your point. However, I don't think that most people who buy this item (not the hard core fans who do the research and are as knowledgeable as you are) will be pretty happy with this item. I hope you are not this exacting on other items. I doubt many products would be able to meet your high standards. This isn't a negative toward you. I understand the passion for perfection, I just find it hard to find, so I am more forgiving/flexible on things.

What do you think is the ratio between "hardcore fans who do the research and are knowledgeable" and casual buyers for something like this? I would say the hardcore fans definitely outweigh the casual buyers, especially for a license like this.

So think about this for a second: you're saying most casual buyers won't know the difference. Ok. Then would you agree if it were 100% accurate, those buyers STILL wouldn't know the difference? If so.. then where's the harm in that!?

Casual buyers will be happy regardless. That's what you're saying. And I agree with you. But my point is: KNOWING that, why not strive to please the "hardcore fans who do the research and are knowledgeable"!? Why not specifically make what those buyers want, because then it's win/win. Everyone is happy. Make sense?

Yet some companies still don't get it.

 

[Sabres21768]

Constructive criticism is to be applauded, but-

Is just childish. Do you not agree?
And it was this that I was talking about!

That's how I feel about it, cut and dry.

There shouldn't even have been a reason to HAVE constructive criticism about this figure.

Hot Toys did not even bother to listen to or read ANYTHING that anyone had sent them prior to the release of this figure.

They KNEW that the fans desired an accurate figure and CHOSE not to produce one.

How inaccurate were the pics of the Predator figure prior to it's release? Did HT work VERY hard to make sure that the Pred fans were happy?

But...this is what the Alien fans get? A half assed attempt at a Giger Alien...that's what we got.

Ok, I got your point. However, I don't think that most people who buy this item (not the hard core fans who do the research and are as knowledgeable as you are) will be pretty happy with this item. I hope you are not this exacting on other items. I doubt many products would be able to meet your high standards. This isn't a negative toward you. I understand the passion for perfection, I just find it hard to find, so I am more forgiving/flexible on things.

I'm incredibly flexible when it comes to Alien collectibles. Just look at my collection.

If Hot Toys had made a half assed attempt at the Predator, then I couldn't complain about what the did with the Alien.

But...they didn't. They went all out to get as accurate as possible and still have a poseable figure. It's obvious that the spent time researching and listening to what the fans wanted BEFORE they put the figure out there.

The DID NOT do the same for the fans who wanted an accurate Alien.

 

[abake]

It's only a proto HT made before any of these altered pics or reference shots were even sent to them! Saying that HT had every opportunity is untrue. News of this figure was only released, what, 3 weeks ago? You expect HT to fix everything in 3 weeks? Give it about 3 MONTHS for updated pics. This is why it says "Product not final".

I sent HT reference pics, including pics of other -accurate- collectibles over a year ago, foreseeing the fact that they would eventually make a figure of the iconic Giger creation.
Besides, this monster has been documented to death for years. It's not really obscure, the info is available everywhere on the net.
And HT knew that the fans were expecting an accurate rendition of the alien, because we (the vocal, accuracy nazi minority) have been telling them we want accurate aliens since they first previewed their Aliens figure years ago.

Since there's a lot of people asking just how it is inaccurate, here's the revised list I put up with the inaccuracies that can be seen from the pics posted here.

Hands: the sixth finger is wrong, it's actually a second thumb, not just another finger.

Arms: there is extra ribbing on the inside of the forearms which shouldn't be there.

Skull: the shape of the skull is wrong, it is way too "evil" looking and back slanting. It has to have a much more human look.

Dorsal Pipes: The fifth spike (upper center) looks wrong in shape. Also, the spines have the wrong of shape.

Mouth: the teeth are the wrong shape and there's too much lips. The actual lips were translucent, so failing that, I would prefer no lips, especially the upper lip. Also, there is an extra tube coming out of the lower jaw, check the reference pics.

Shoulders: after reviewing the pics, I do believe they look right, what do you guys think?

Torso: the ribs end too soon, they should go further back.

Neck: it looks wrong, too wide and some of the detailing looks invented, but I can't really tell from the pics.

Hips: again, there seem to be extra tubes/ribbing that weren't there (on second thought, maybe it's not wrong, would have to get a better view)

Legs: fantastically wrong! Again there's ribbing on the inside of the calves, and as SS pointed out, what's with the muscle? Also, the three "bars" on the back of the leg (towards the ankle) look to be the wrong shape.

Feet: can't see much, but it seems they're missing the oxen jaws.

Tail: can't really see the shape, but it should be very flat at the base, getting rounder as it goes to the tip. But I couldn't find any good reference pics, although both the Medicom and NECA figures have the tail in that configuration.

 

[abake]

Part deux:

As for overall look and proportions, here's the actual suit with Bolaji Badejo inside:

And the original sculpture made by Giger that was used to make the castings for the suit:

Here's Medicom's:

And NECA's:

And Marmit's statue:

For the record, I like the proportions on the HT figure.

 

[MaulFan]

It's only a proto HT made before any of these altered pics or reference shots were even sent to them! Saying that HT had every opportunity is untrue.

People sent actual film suit photos to HT over the years because of the innaccurracies of past Alien figures in hopes that THE Alien would be as accurrate as possible. The movie and those pics have been around for 30 years, that's where the arguments are coming about HT failing, that they shouldn't need photo manipulations of their figure, that using reference from teh actual film it's based on should be enough, and with that material out there, and the discrepancies on the figure, the off elements seem more likely by choice rather than failure. Even if not photos, there are products from Sideshow and NECA and many other companies accurrately depicting the creature to use as 3D reference to get the details right.

 

[ChaserFan]

People sent actual film suit photos to HT over the years because of the innaccurracies of past Alien figures in hopes that THE Alien would be as accurrate as possible. The movie and those pics have been around for 30 years, that's where the arguments are coming about HT failing, that they shouldn't need photo manipulations of their figure, that using reference from teh actual film it's based on should be enough, and with that material out there, and the discrepancies on the figure, the off elements seem more likely by choice rather than failure. Even if not photos, there are products from Sideshow and NECA and many other companies accurrately depicting the creature to use as 3D reference to get the details right.

But still, this IS only a proto.......maybe they just needed to be reminded, and are hopefully fixing it as we speak!

 

[MaulFan]

But still, this IS only a proto.......maybe they just needed to be reminded, and are hopefully fixing it as we speak!

Of course it's a proto, but can you not understand the frustration of the Alien fans speaking up.

Hot Toys had equal skills, time and less years of reference available for their Predator figure, but they engineered a new body, tooled the most accurrate head they've ever done on a Predator, added LED lighting to the bio mask, did many details right on the Predator prototype, it was as great as it is from day one.

The Alien fans are upset because with as much time to do as nice a job on the Alien, it hasn't been done, and it crushes their optimism over what changes may happen by the time the figure ships because essentially, they've been shown by HT that Hot Toys doesn't care about reference on the creature so why would they listen now any more than they'd listen in the years leading up to this figure.

This isn't frustration over one figure being vented, it's years and multiple Alien figures with innaccurracies and other top notch efforts from HT within that window that's really coming out. Alien fans are feeling like HT doesn't give a ^^^^ about their beloved creature, and while I have no idea why the figures come out the way they do, ALIENS especially showed HT for some reason takes creative liberties with the designs, and it's weird since it only seems like the Alien gets that, the Predators get accurracy as best they can.

 

[FACEBOX]

But still, this IS only a proto.......maybe they just needed to be reminded, and are hopefully fixing it as we speak!

See Maulfan's post.
We should not have to "remind" Hot Toys.
None of the other licenses needed that, so why this one....again?

Like I said before, the eye sockets and hands are my biggest complaints.
They are totally wrong.

 

[ChaserFan]

See Maulfan's post.
We should not have to "remind" Hot Toys.
None of the other licenses needed that, so why this one....again?

No, you shouldn't have to remind them, but who knows what has happened between then and now? Maybe they'll finally 'get it' and produce an accurate alien for once.

 

[karamazov80]

Clearly a flawed figure for the reasons pointed out, but I will probably get it anyway, as it still looks fantastic, and the price could be a lot worse.

 

[MaulFan]

It is a great looking figure, I've placed my order, and to have an ALIEN in scale with the rest of the Hot Toys Aliens collection, it's pretty close and a nice addition and certainly HT's best Alien to date.

However, HT also really opened themselves up to criticism writing this in their newsletter.

To celebrate the 30th Anniversary of the ALIEN movie (1979), we have been invested a very long time to develop the best 1/6th scale Alien collectible which you never had. Another great job done by our talented artist - Joseph Tsang after AVP She Predator and Alien Bust projects, this collectible perfectly captured the first appearance of the Big Chap Alien in the movie. If you are looking for a replica of Giger's work, this is the one! Don't miss any chance to get this worthiest Alien collectible while you can.

They've made a claim and people are calling them out on it.

 

[Sabres21768]

This is a brilliant, concise post and needs quoting.

Nice work MaulFan.

Of course it's a proto, but can you not understand the frustration of the Alien fans speaking up.

Hot Toys had equal skills, time and less years of reference available for their Predator figure, but they engineered a new body, tooled the most accurrate head they've ever done on a Predator, added LED lighting to the bio mask, did many details right on the Predator prototype, it was as great as it is from day one.

The Alien fans are upset because with as much time to do as nice a job on the Alien, it hasn't been done, and it crushes their optimism over what changes may happen by the time the figure ships because essentially, they've been shown by HT that Hot Toys doesn't care about reference on the creature so why would they listen now any more than they'd listen in the years leading up to this figure.

This isn't frustration over one figure being vented, it's years and multiple Alien figures with innaccurracies and other top notch efforts from HT within that window that's really coming out. Alien fans are feeling like HT doesn't give a ^^^^ about their beloved creature, and while I have no idea why the figures come out the way they do, ALIENS especially showed HT for some reason takes creative liberties with the designs, and it's weird since it only seems like the Alien gets that, the Predators get accurracy as best they can.

 

[abake]

this collectible perfectly captured the first appearance of the Big Chap Alien in the movie. If you are looking for a replica of Giger's work, this is the one!

Yup, that one pretty much set them up for an epic fail...
In terms of accuracy, this is way below NECA, Marmit and Medicom, even though those also have smaller issues.

 

[plasmid303]

Frustration or not, why is it so difficult for some people to articulate their thoughts in a manner that isn't crass? I'd hate to think HT is reading some of this. It reminds me of the venom shot at Sideshow for a span of time when HT and Medicom were on the rise. Not cool.

Anyway, that's a great post, Maulfan. I own the previous HT xenomorph figures, and while the inaccuracies are a point of contention for many fans, I still think they look great and offer the kind of articulation unheard of for this sort of character in previous collectibles.

HT pushed this horse out of the gate too soon. Possibly in order to make it to Tokyo Toy Show or SDCC, I dunno. Or maybe Tsang just doesn't have what it takes.

 

[abake]

Frustration or not, why is it so difficult for some people to articulate their thoughts in a manner that isn't crass? I'd hate to think HT is reading some of this. It reminds me of the venom shot at Sideshow for a span of time when HT and Medicom were on the rise. Not cool.

Anyway, that's a great post, Maulfan. I own the previous HT xenomorph figures, and while the inaccuracies are a point of contention for many fans, I still think they look great and offer the kind of articulation unheard of for this sort of character in previous collectibles.

HT pushed this horse out of the gate too soon. Possibly in order to make it to Tokyo Toy Show or SDCC, I dunno. Or maybe Tsang just doesn't have what it takes.

Actually, this hasn't been discussed much I think, but I do worry about articulation on this figure. The rubber suit means it will be very limited, which is a shame. I would've accepted artistic interpretation to accommodate their usual hip articulation. No stooping pose, again. No crouching either.

As for Tsang, he is clearly an amazing sculptor but he clearly does not care about accuracy and would rather make his aliens instead of what we saw in the movies...

 

[Jamesways]

Honestly though, I can't say I'm really surprised. Given their track record with the Alien license, and after seeing the 1/4 "Giger" bust, you kinda had the feeling they'd just use a similar sculpt for the head.

We can only hope they fix it.

Abake, he's obviously influenced by the Takeya pieces. Stylized aliens are cool.