Hot Toys MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

[guyver1]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Thanks! Also thanks for the fixing the gauntlet tips. He does look amazing, the cowl is spot on. I was surprised his boots weren't rubber so there also isn't ankle articulation. I actually sold all (4) of my hot toys collection for him, and a t1 arnie,and I don't regret it at all. Is there specific instructions for putting the mouth piece in all the way ? I guess I should have read the instructions.


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Take the other end of the PERS stick or tool (the pole part and push the mouth piece from the back..really easy and it's a great idea so you don't scratch the paint trying to use your hands and nails

..another great idea and I like the control box button you can actually press

 

[Mike86]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Looking great Chieftortuga Keep the pics coming guys!

That custom battle damaged 89 Batman is awesome.

 

[chieftortuga]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

here is a peek at tonys custom cape for BR!.

 

[franpincho]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Jeeeeeesus!

Stock cape is just fine!

Blah blah blah!

Or do your own and save yourself $80!!!!

 

[TonyMeis]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Jeeeeeesus!

Stock cape is just fine!

Blah blah blah!

Or do your own and save yourself $80!!!!

you are so right!! The stock cape is nice to begin with. About time HT learn something by now. BTW, never knew my cape is $80, but I'm more than happy to pay you $80 if you can make me the same or better quality cape

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Jeeeeeesus!

Stock cape is just fine!

Blah blah blah!

Or do your own and save yourself $80!!!!

I know the subject bothers you, but the custom cape is better than the stock ones and this is coming from someone that doesn't even hate the stock DX09 and made it work.

Look at that video. Look how easily it can be futzed and the way it drapes at the end. You don't think that looks nice? It's more of a convenience than anything else. I know I personally couldn't sew those things as nicely as Crystal does. They're nice capes that are objectively better than what Hot Toys included. The Returns one looks improved over the DX09, I dig it, but the custom Tony one is better.

 

[chieftortuga]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Nicely said difabio.

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[franpincho]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Never said they weren't nice looking, I'm just against paying that much for what is essentially a piece of fabric. It's cool if you all dig it, but if the thread is going to be "all about that" for the next day or two, then it becomes kind of dull IMO. isn't that why there's a custom section?

Anyway, won't touch the subject again.

I just want my stock Batman to get here.

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[guyver1]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Thought I would compare the amazing evolution HT has done with Batman with my favorite feature..PERS

DX09 which I will always love



MMS 293...This is an incredible update



HT

 

[SaigonExpress69]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

I'm just against paying that much for what is essentially a piece of fabric.

I understand where you're coming from since I get the same feeling and go through the same exact thought-process when buying one of Tony's capes. But the reason I still end up buying them is because: 1. I could never make one of equal quality. 2. Despite being just a piece of fabric, they do elevate the figure to another level from an aesthetic as well as from a convenience stand point ( as fabs already pointed out).

Also, the "just fabric" argument is not really fair and could be applied to pretty much anything. A crappy example is the Mona Lisa is just a canvas with paint. It doesn't take into account the labor, R&D or talent/ability required to produce the item. It just unfairly reduces the end product into its individual parts, which is not what the consumer is paying for.

Anyway, I respect your opinion/decision. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I'll also leave this topic alone now, too.

 

[haytil]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Also, the "just fabric" argument is not really fair and could be applied to pretty much anything. A crappy example is the Mona Lisa is just a canvas with paint.

Come on.

The ridiculousness of your argument is only proving the point that your opposition is trying to make. The amount of talent required to transform that paint into the Mona Lisa is significantly more than transforming a piece of fabric into a cape.

By "significantly more", I don't mean just "a lot." What I mean is that the difference is so staggering, your argument just doesn't make any kind of comprehensible sense. Your analogy attempts to use logic, but is so extreme as to be meaningless.

It doesn't take into account the labor, R&D or talent/ability required to produce the item. It just unfairly reduces the end product into its individual parts, which is not what the consumer is paying for.

What you're not understanding is that the labor and R&D to produce patterned capes has been elevated to some mystical, mythical level, which is baffling to those of us who know better.

It's like these guys who pay a thousand bucks for a 1/6 suit because it has the name "Kato" on it. Are the suits better than the average 1/6 suit? Yeah. But you're kidding yourself if you think the labor and R&D is so intense that it justifies such a high price tag. What you're really paying for is the name and the feeling that comes with having "bought in" to an idea that others have also "bought in" to.

 

[haytil]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Anyway, I've always been happy with the mouthplates of my other Hot Toys Batman figures, so I've never bought any custom mouthplates.

But I'm hopeful that some artists will come up with some for this figure, so we can get the iconic expressions that Hot Toys didn't deliver (like the evil grin he gives the Strong Man before killing him). There's a lot of unexplored space in that arena, just waiting to be explored. Hopefully there's demand as well, to incentivize the customizers.

 

[franpincho]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

I've only seen two of the included faceplates not fit in correctly (as in all the way). One of them looks just right.

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[SaigonExpress69]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

^You're right that my example was extreme, which is why I said it was a crappy example.

It was used in hopes of illustrating my main point, which was: the "just fabric" argument is unfair, and can be applied to essentially anything, not just art. This hobby, for example is a prime example of how that argument could be unfairly used. Our "high-end" figures are essentially plastic, paint and soft goods. A Mattel Barbie doll is made of the same exact materials. But we choose to pay hundreds more for "essentially just plastic, paint and soft goods." Why? Because the quality, level of realism and END PRODUCT is better than the sum of its parts. Same goes for name brand/high quality clothes (fabric) versus generic off brand products (also fabric).

So please, don't try to ridicule or completely disregard my comments because I used an extreme example to illustrate my point.

 

[guyver1]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Anyway, I've always been happy with the mouthplates of my other Hot Toys Batman figures, so I've never bought any custom mouthplates.

But I'm hopeful that some artists will come up with some for this figure, so we can get the iconic expressions that Hot Toys didn't deliver (like the evil grin he gives the Strong Man before killing him). There's a lot of unexplored space in that arena, just waiting to be explored. Hopefully there's demand as well, to incentivize the customizers.

I did my own BD DX09 for the mouth plates a while back

 

[haytil]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

It was used in hopes of illustrating my main point, which was: the "just fabric" argument is unfair, and can be applied to essentially anything, not just art.

No, it can't be applied to anything, and my point is that your own example shows how the argument breaks down and falls apart. For instance:

This hobby, for example is a prime example of how that argument could be unfairly used. Our "high-end" figures are essentially plastic, paint and soft goods.

The difference is, if you give me a bunch of plastic, paint, fabric, and rubber, I can't make a Batman Returns figure. No matter how hard I try or how much plastic you give me - I don't have the knowledge, the resources, or the production facilities necessary.

But if you give me a large piece of fabric and thread, I can trace out the pattern of a cape, cut it out, and finish sewing it pretty easily. And you can too, even if you don't believe it. That's why I'm talking about the mythologizing of these simple customizations - it's really NOT that hard, it's just that you've all bought in to the idea that it is.

And that kind of saddens me, because you've unnecessarily limited yourself instead of learning something new and easy and useful.

I did my own BD DX09 for the mouth plates a while back

That's a nice paint job, Guyver1.

 

[SaigonExpress69]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

And that kind of saddens me, because you've unnecessarily limited yourself instead of learning something new and easy and useful.

I appreciate your sympathy, haytil. But please don't lose any sleep over the fact that I can't and don't really want to learn how to sew. I'm okay with it.

Jesus.... You trying to refute my argument by saying it's impossible to make a high end 1/6 figure while it's possible to make a cape is again, you missing my point entirely, and again, you going off on a tangent.

My point is simply: Saying a custom cape is "just fabric" is not a fair assessment of whether or not it's worth purchasing or not.

Why are buyers willing to pay more for something (custom cape) when a cheaper alternative is readily available (stock cape)? The answer is simple: because the quality is better and the consumer is paying not just for materials (fabric), but also the services/skills rendered that are required to make it a quality product.

Yeah, I trust that you could probably cut a cape out of a piece of fabric. But I don't trust you that it'd be worth a damn. And your assumption that it's a relatively easy task is also pretty demeaning to people who actually have sewing/tailoring skills and know how.

By your logic, you should stop buying clothes and sew yourself an entire wardrobe, because you know better than to pay for something that clothing companies have "mythologized" to be too difficult for consumers to do for themselves. Trust me haytil, clothes may be a little more complex to make than capes, but it's definitely possible and should not be that difficult for someone like you who knows better.

Me? I'm an ignorant ****, so I guess I'll just keep buying my clothes...

I don't know you very well, man. And I'm not sure if you're just trolling me or if you're actually serious and this is how you normally act. If it's the former, congratulations, you've gotten under my skin. If it's the latter, well, I'm actually saddened for you.

 

[lordregnis]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

I liked his kato arguement.

 

[Bustajesse]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

It's on a few comments above you.....

Sweet! Ordered mine last night! Thanks for making these Tony You and Crystal are the best.

I understand where you're coming from since I get the same feeling and go through the same exact thought-process when buying one of Tony's capes. But the reason I still end up buying them is because: 1. I could never make one of equal quality. 2. Despite being just a piece of fabric, they do elevate the figure to another level from an aesthetic as well as from a convenience stand point ( as fabs already pointed out).

Also, the "just fabric" argument is not really fair and could be applied to pretty much anything. A crappy example is the Mona Lisa is just a canvas with paint. It doesn't take into account the labor, R&D or talent/ability required to produce the item. It just unfairly reduces the end product into its individual parts, which is not what the consumer is paying for.

Anyway, I respect your opinion/decision. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I'll also leave this topic alone now, too.

Totally agree.

 

[guyver1]

Re: Hot Toys – MMS 293 & 294 Batman Returns: Batman and Bruce Wayne (Keaton) Set

Enough with this cape argument. Tony, I love your creativity and work and as a fellow Customizer, I have nothing but respect

now can we get back to what matters the most on this thread and that is the sure awesomeness that HT did with this figure despite the articulation
Kind of wish I got the set or at least the damaged cowl







It's interesting how the prices have raised on ebay, but this could be due to the fact of SSC delay of this.