1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 320 - Star Wars Ep.VII - Kylo Ren

[cmiller99]

If we are leaving race out of it, because after Disney gutted the EU im not sure if the actual Sith race exists or not anymore, and we are going by a pure apples to oranges comparison... Sith is to Jedi style... Darth Vader was absolutely a sith lord and doing sith philosophy. Arguably as soon as he assisted unwittingly in Master Windu's possible (i still have hope) demise...

ill even go into further argument towards the fact he was in the OT, due to the fact that the return of "jedi" could not have happened.

What is the 'Sith order' in the PT? Two creepy evil guys, one has robes and one is half robot. They both use the dark side.

All the legends of the Sith Order, its history etc are all EU/PT additions. The OT barely touches on that. It's just good v.s. evil.

He wasn't a Jedi in the OT because he'd betrayed them all and killed them, as established by Ben Kenobi. That didn't make him a Sith though, and there's no specification in the OT that that is the case.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

If you watch ROTJ as if you were seeing it for the first time, there's no way you would even know what the hell the Emperor was at all, forget whether he was Sith or not. It's not clear he's even human and he's only ever referred to as "Master" or "Emperor". It took years of EU and prequel stuff to fill in the gaps with all kinds of junk.

 

[Asta]

I think the idea of Vader as a "Dark Lord of the Sith" only came about with Alan Dean Foster's 1976 novelization, but was not elaborated on in the OT.

The Emperor was also a wimp.

The prologue to the novel, from 'The Journal of the Whills':

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Even in the film the Emperor was not yet regarded as a fearsome all-controlling entity:

Governor Tarkin: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away forever.

General Tagge: But that's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Fear came not from the Emperor himself, but from his governors and machines.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

Where did Foster get it from, Kuat? Did he invent it or did he have a source from Lucas?

 

[Asta]

Where did Foster get it from, Kuat? Did he invent it or did he have a source from Lucas?

I think Foster probably had to invent a lot of things because Lucas only had sketchy ideas of where he was going with this. We know that Lucas changed his mind on key areas , so didn't have an all-encompassing vision.

As I think I wrote before, George was the Indiana Jones of Star Wars: he was making it all up as he went!


'The Journal of the Whills' itself was from Lucas:

"Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else; there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concept behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the 'Journal of the Whills'."

Journal of the Whills - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

 

[LoveMinusZero]

Oh I definitely agree that Lucas was making everything up as he went along, I just wasn't sure where the Sith thing originated. I vaguely remembered it being from a book. Growing up, like most people my age, I had no idea "Darth Vader" wasn't the guy's name, nor what a Sith was. "Lord of the Sith" really just sounded like a weird, vaguely medieval knight sounding title.

 

[Asta]

Growing up, like most people my age, I had no idea "Darth Vader" wasn't the guy's name, nor what a Sith was. "Lord of the Sith" really just sounded like a weird, vaguely medieval knight sounding title.

Same here. The 'Sith' was as mysterious and intriguing as mention of 'The Clone Wars'.

And when Obi-Wan spoke to Vader before the duel he sounded liked he was referring to Vader by name as 'Darth', rather than dignifying with him a title:

Darth Vader: I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now *I* am the master.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a master of evil, Darth.

And then again:

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: You can't win, Darth.

Vader refers to his adversary as 'Obi-Wan', and Kenobi responds in kind.

 

[Asta]

Where did Foster get it from, Kuat? Did he invent it or did he have a source from Lucas?

Here's the answer:

The
Adventures of Luke Starkiller
as taken from the
"Journal of the Whills"
by
George Lucas

(Saga I)
STAR WARS

Revised Fourth Draft
March 15, 1976
Lucasfilm Ltd.
20th Century Fox


...

3.INT. REBEL STARFIGHTER - MAIN HALLWAY


The awesome, seven-foot tall DARK LORD OF THE SITH makes his way into the blinding light of the main passageway. This is DARTH VADER, right hand of the Emperor. His face is obscured by his flowing black robes and grotesque breath mask which stands out next to the fascist white armored suits of the Imperial stormtroopers. Everyone instinctively backs away from the imposing warrior and a deathly quiet sweeps through the Rebel troops. Several of the rebel troops break and run in a frenzied panic.​

​

​

 

[IronPatriotFTW]

Im pretty sure the "Sith" are better expanded in the CW and hopefully its continuation Rebels even more....

 

[mynameschris]

I remember reading in a book about Darth being a title and not a name as well as Vader being a "Lord of the Sith" long before the PT... Will have to try and dig it out to see what it said on the subject (it wasn't a great deal I remember that much).

 

[FREEKDOM]

I cant believe you guys are STILL arguing the OT vs PT in Kylo's thread...

As amusing as it is, I think you need your own thread.

 

[mynameschris]

I think it only matters to people who want to strike the PT from Star Wars canon... Disney and Lucasfilm haven't done that and instead have been labeled as part of the official story (unlike the EU) along with a book titled "Dark Lords of the Sith" as well as being name dropped in the ongoing Rebels series... people are fine to ignore anything other than the OT, problem will come if Episode VII onward reference Vader etc as being Sith.

Any who back to the thread title, how are people considering displaying their Kylo figures?

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk

 

[WWEJedi]

Any who back to the thread title, how are people considering displaying their Kylo figures?

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk

Going to grab some FO fabric banners from Pixel. Kylo will be out front. Two regular FO stormies will be flanked a little behind him. Then behind those will the Squad lead trooper and Heavy Gunner.

 

[mynameschris]

Nice! I was thinking something similar but with a regular Trooper and the SL Trooper that I already have on order but now I am tempted to still get the second Trooper but flank them behind Phasma (though thats what Im planning with the Figuarts too) and instead face him off against Finn after the Instagram teaser... problem being space to set that up properly.

All academic right now though as the only TFA figure I have on order to date is the SL Trooper... thinking about putting an order in for Kylo sooner rather than later.

 

[Cixx]

This thread now sucks! Thanks nerds!

 

[cmiller99]

You're welcome

 

[Darkseed]

This thread now sucks! Thanks nerds!

Adults without creditability (no successful filmmakers or producers) arguing about their opinions of movies was better theater? Watch WWE if you want a soap opera about boy drama

 

[darthkush]

Any word on an second Driver headsculpt or a second figure altogether? This is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a HT Vader. I'm waiting for one with a removable helmet. Not sure I should buy this Kylo if they're gonna do a second, better one with cooler stuff a few months later. I learned that lesson from my first HT captain America.

 

[zeiss]

If Kylo Ren does turn out to be one of the major characters, you can bet there will be a second one. However, if he changes his outfit, the next version might depict him in his latest look.

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but does anyone else think that his helmet sculpt looks off compared to some of the promo pictures we have seen? It seems like either his mouthpiece becomes too narrow at the bottom or his eye mask is too wide.

I am hoping it is just the angle of the hood as I am sure they used a digital scan of the actual prop. After all, my $10 12inch Kylo has an accurate sculpt and it is because they really didn't have to sculpt anything except for the hood.

 

[Darkseed]

Any word on an second Driver headsculpt or a second figure altogether? This is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a HT Vader. I'm waiting for one with a removable helmet. Not sure I should buy this Kylo if they're gonna do a second, better one with cooler stuff a few months later. I learned that lesson from my first HT captain America.

Kylo with a human sculpt would be cool however, we don't know that he appears that way in the film. I am aware a pic exist of him without a helmet with the Snow Troopers.