Hot Toys - MMS DX 01- The Dark Knight - The Joker spec and pics

[LChinoz]

That brings up the question I have always had about the series.

How can Billy Dee Williams and Tommy Lee Jones be Two Face in Forever?

Different casting directors maybe, plus Billy Dee had a teeny tiny role in Batman, so they probably thought he wasn't a big enough actor to be Two-Face. Really the only cast members who stuck around for all four films were Commissioner Gordon and Alfred. Everyone else was obviously disposable and replaceable.

 

[Devil_666]

How can Billy Dee Williams and Tommy Lee Jones be Two Face in Forever?

The same way Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney were all Batman. Movie Magic. Or contract disputes/scheduling conflicts. But Movie Magic sounds better.

 

[Maglor]

O.K. I am not a racist... but couldn't they at least have picked someone of the same race?

I guess a black Two Face would be a little... unexpected, but I would have much preferred that to what they ended up doing.

Either that or cast a white guy to be Dent in the first place.

 

[MaulFan]

Batman '89 was a gamble, they had no clue if it'd succeed, casting concerns were only focused on the one movie, no thoughts of sequel.

 

[Maglor]

Seems short sighted to me.

 

[MaulFan]

Not really, sequels weren't a big thing and Batman '89 put life back into comic book based films, and Burton was a young director. It was a gamble project that paid off but could have easily flopped too. Back in the days when Hollywood had balls to take a chance on something instead of just sticking to sure fire money making formulas and oversaturating the market.

 

[cr0w]

Billy Dee Williams was supposed to be Two-Face. He signed on for the role with the expectation that it would lead to his appearance as Two-Face in the sequels.

A common occurrence in the world of big budget movie series is the notion of the film companies having options for the actors in the films for later sequels, so that if the company wants, say, Brandon Routh to play Superman again, he'll have already agreed to do the sequel (occasionally, these deals even include what the actor will be paid for the sequel).

A slightly different contract scenario was the case for Billy Dee Williams and his ill-fated quest to play Two-Face in the Batman films.

When Williams signed on to play Harvey Dent in the first Batman film, as part of his contract, he was signed on to play Two-Face if/when the Batman films decided to use the villain.

However, when Tim Burton decided to pass on Batman Forever, the second sequel to the film, incoming director Joel Schumacher did not want Williams for the role, so the producers instead paid Williams his fee for the film for NOT appearing in the movie as Two-Face.

That led to Tommy Lee Jones becoming Two-Face.

In the earlier drafts of the script, Harvey Dent was set to appear in Batman Returns, played by Billy Dee Williams. He was going to be used in the Max Shreck role, and the scarring of his face (which would turn him into the villain Two-Face) was set to happen during the finale when Catwoman kisses him while holding onto the Penguin's generator. (This would then, in turn set up the third movie, in which Two-Face was going to appear as the main villain.)

 

[Balsquat]

Billy Dee Williams was supposed to be Two-Face. He signed on for the role with the expectation that it would lead to his appearance as Two-Face in the sequels.

That sounds awesome. Though Christopher Walken did a damn good job in that role.

 

[Darth Madden]

In the earlier drafts of the script, Harvey Dent was set to appear in Batman Returns, played by Billy Dee Williams. He was going to be used in the Max Shreck role, and the scarring of his face (which would turn him into the villain Two-Face) was set to happen during the finale when Catwoman kisses him while holding onto the Penguin's generator. (This would then, in turn set up the third movie, in which Two-Face was going to appear as the main villain.)

Huh... that could have been very interesting.

 

[cr0w]

I actually have a copy of the Batman 2 script. With Vicki Vale and Robin, among others, in the draft. I should get around to reading it some day.

 

[villainsfan42]

That sounds awesome. Though Christopher Walken did a damn good job in that role.

that actually would have been really kickass. even though i am a huge walken fan, and he was great in the role, i think that idea of having dent as the character woulda been much better. but, and not to be racist, i dont like the idea of taking pre-existing characters and changing their race. it's one thing to change someones outfit, but skin color or ethnicity of a character does change the character in a sense, and people's veiws of the character.

Spoiler

devil, you gotta do a manip of billy dee williams as two-face with the scarred side of his head white....ok, yes, that was a bit racist..but it'd be funny so wth?

 

[cr0w]

There are things I just don't agree with when you're casting an established character with a long history. Changing race or gender would be among them. Though, if they would have made him a female and named him "Harley Dent", that could have opened up some fun possibilities.

 

[haytil]

There are things I just don't agree with when you're casting an established character with a long history. Changing race or gender would be among them.

I don't think having a black Harvey Dent would've made a difference. It's not critical to this character or his personality and race doesn't necessarily have much bearing on your persona (unlike, say, gender).

Having a black Dent is different from the comics, but only to the degree that having a Joker with makeup instead of white skin is. It's a change but not critical to the core of the character - in fact, I'd say it's even less critical than the Joker's makeup change.

Finally, though Two-Face is an established character to us fans, with a long history, most movie-goers didn't know who he was and wouldn't have noticed the change or cared. It'd be a little weird to most people if Batman was black, but Two-Face is far more minor in comparison.

 

[EdwardNashton1]

I think a lot of the difference is simply attributed to the style the movies were in those days and the ones they take on in the more current movies.
Us older bunch can appreciate the "cheesier" older movies better as we still remember how we enjoyed them at the time. We won;t just suddenly dismiss them now when compared to the ultra realistic, dark undertone the current movies nowadays all take. For younger guys here that never gone through those days it will just be "weird" just like old black & white or other really old movies or TV shows will feel to us.
Well they do have a term for it ... Generation gap...

Anything past the 80's tends to not interest me so much. But I really do love M*A*S*H*(the tv show), the A-Team (also looking forward to the new movie), and a couple of my dads old war movies. But I don't really like the 60's Batman.....just too hard to enjoy. I did enjoy Adam and Burt return to the Batcave though.

 

[cokebabies]

Apologies in advance for asking (most likely a few) questions that have been covered here.

I had been following the HT TDK figures closely for a while, but at the time had absolutely no spending money, so just looking at the pics got a bit frustrating, and I kind of tuned out.

Now with a new job and (eventually) a TV room where I can put some figures and statues (my wife doesn't want a Joker figure looking at her while she sleeps, doesn't that seem unreasonable?), I'm looking into FINALLY getting a HT Joker.

So my biggest questions are:

1) What does the DK Joker tend to go for? Between assorted toy sites and eBay, I've seen the price vary by almost $100.

2) Since the DX comes with all the extra accessories, the only thing I need to turn the DX Joker into two figures is another TT body?

3) Until the narrow shoulder TT body stops being insanely priced, the "budget" recommendation is to put the narrow shoulder on the cop Joker, and buy a regular TT for the clown?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Devil_666]

What does the DK Joker tend to go for? Between assorted toy sites and eBay, I've seen the price vary by almost $100.

Like you said, it varies. I bought mine from qstoysandcollectibles (a member/seller on this board) for $165 shipped (U.S.). You could try contacting him to see if he has any/will be getting any more.

BBTS has them in stock right now for $164.99 + $12.79 s&h (U.S.)

Urban Collector has them in stock as well for $174.99 + $14.91 s&h (U.S.)

You just have to search around. I personally would not pay over $180 for it. But you might feel different.

Since the DX comes with all the extra accessories, the only thing I need to turn the DX Joker into two figures is another TT body?

Correct. Everything else is included.

Until the narrow shoulder TT body stops being insanely priced, the "budget" recommendation is to put the narrow shoulder on the cop Joker, and buy a regular TT for the clown?

Yes and No. I'm sure some people are doing it like that until more Narrow shoulder TT's become available, but other people (like myself) just prefer the clown Joker on a regular TT.

But again, it's up to you. I'd definitely recommend putting the Cop Joker on a Narrow TT though. A few people have used a regular TT for it and they like it (Valfar is one I think) but I prefer how the Narrow shoulder TT looks for that figure. So it's up to you.

 

[Darth Madden]

I don't think having a black Harvey Dent would've made a difference.

Me either... in fact I think Wesley Snipes would have been a great Batman. Of course that would have been more difficult to sell but he would have done great.

 

[Devil_666]

For lesser known characters, it isn't a problem. But for iconic characters, it just won't work unless you reinvent the entire character. Specifically the Batman example Darth Madden brought up: a black guy playing Batman/Bruce Wayne would never work. Even if you did a Stan Lee "Just Imagine.." Wayne Williams reinvention, it would suck.

But disregarding that for a second, my choice would be Michael Jai White as a black Batman.

Characters like Nick Fury, making him black was done in an alternative universe story or some ish with the comics. So that worked. But even beyond that, having Samuel L. Jackson play Nick Fury in the movies worked because honestly.. Nick Fury is a complete "WHO!?" to mainstream fans. So whether that character was white, black or even chinese was irrelevant.

On a side note, anyone catch the Hoff as Nick Fury? lmmfao!

Adding new characters to a role is also acceptable. Like making a new Green Lantern who was black. No problem.

But Superman, Batman, The Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, etc. characters like that, switch ups don't work. Minor, lesser known characters.. yeah.

 

[Maglor]

Billy Dee Williams was supposed to be Two-Face. He signed on for the role with the expectation that it would lead to his appearance as Two-Face in the sequels.

A common occurrence in the world of big budget movie series is the notion of the film companies having options for the actors in the films for later sequels, so that if the company wants, say, Brandon Routh to play Superman again, he'll have already agreed to do the sequel (occasionally, these deals even include what the actor will be paid for the sequel).

A slightly different contract scenario was the case for Billy Dee Williams and his ill-fated quest to play Two-Face in the Batman films.

When Williams signed on to play Harvey Dent in the first Batman film, as part of his contract, he was signed on to play Two-Face if/when the Batman films decided to use the villain.

However, when Tim Burton decided to pass on Batman Forever, the second sequel to the film, incoming director Joel Schumacher did not want Williams for the role, so the producers instead paid Williams his fee for the film for NOT appearing in the movie as Two-Face.

That led to Tommy Lee Jones becoming Two-Face.

In the earlier drafts of the script, Harvey Dent was set to appear in Batman Returns, played by Billy Dee Williams. He was going to be used in the Max Shreck role, and the scarring of his face (which would turn him into the villain Two-Face) was set to happen during the finale when Catwoman kisses him while holding onto the Penguin's generator. (This would then, in turn set up the third movie, in which Two-Face was going to appear as the main villain.)

Very interesting! I would have much prefered that.

Good to know they were at least shooting for continuity.

For lesser known characters, it isn't a problem. But for iconic characters, it just won't work unless you reinvent the entire character. Specifically the Batman example Darth Madden brought up: a black guy playing Batman/Bruce Wayne would never work. Even if you did a Stan Lee "Just Imagine.." Wayne Williams reinvention, it would suck.

But disregarding that for a second, my choice would be Michael Jai White as a black Batman.

Characters like Nick Fury, making him black was done in an alternative universe story or some ish with the comics. So that worked. But even beyond that, having Samuel L. Jackson play Nick Fury in the movies worked because honestly.. Nick Fury is a complete "WHO!?" to mainstream fans. So whether that character was white, black or even chinese was irrelevant.

On a side note, anyone catch the Hoff as Nick Fury? lmmfao!

Adding new characters to a role is also acceptable. Like making a new Green Lantern who was black. No problem.

But Superman, Batman, The Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, etc. characters like that, switch ups don't work. Minor, lesser known characters.. yeah.

I completely agree.

A black Batman would be a bit too... Blackula.:blackbat

 

[MarfMaster]

But disregarding that for a second, my choice would be Michael Jai White as a black Batman.

Excellent pick! Nobody remembers Spawn anyway....