Hot Toys MMS233 -Predator 2 - 1/6th scale Elder Predator 2.0 Collectible Figure

[demorathis]

https://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-illegal-hunting.htm#slideshow
the hunting methods of predators were based on hunting methods of humans.
kill males, there are lots of males and they are basically not needed except for breeding seasons.
never hunt little ones or females because they'll give more little ones.
if you kill the breed, you'll have no prey next season.
humans are always in "breeding season" so every human female is capable of bringing new prey around the year.
predators take humans for animals since P1. it was also commented as "predators like to hunt dangerous animals, and the most dangerous animal in the universe is a human".
note the word "animal"

predators don't have "opponents" and they are not "killers". they are hunters taking their sweet time.
and that is what is cool about predators not respecting anybody except themselves. (and getting their asses kicked suddenly in XX century by humanity developed enough).
again, i'm talking about original Thomas predators. not the popular protoss-caveman concept of yautja.

Just curious...
What is your view, or the Thomas bros explanation given, of the flintlock being given to Glover/ Harrigan?
Rewarding the animal for killing the hunter? Showing respect for besting one of theirs?
Or is it not a reward? Or is there no answer if not from behind the scenes, or from the writers mouth?

Things in a movie have to make reasonable sense if we are to have suspension of disbelief...that's the basis on which we can take a fictional idea and accept it...
whether or not the writer says one way or another, it must make sense in the world he created otherwise it invalidates his own universe...

And what's with the acknowledgment or obvious show of respect of the (older) predator as they leave one by one... If he is not in any way a leader or "elder" of a group, clan or tribe or motley group or random modern individuals....or is it just choreography for the audience, or lack of room in the ship which causes them one by one to almost bump into the non leader...?

I don't know anything of the predator expanded universe or " abominations" as you called it...but I do watch for details and foreshadowed contrivances (action in any movie is contrived, but the trick is making it appear otherwise) vs reading too deeply into scenes and extracting extraneous info.

So, since you seem to have a good handle on the official predator universe, I am genuinely curious as to what the official explanations are.

 

[xenowolf]

you do understand you are <<< Thomas brothers )
one old guy, hating poor youth unable to do what he did in his childhood, likes an animal more than his own kind. that often happens with old people on earth, they hate everybody around them and love their animals

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard. People don't have their buddy hunt and try to kill their favorite animal then when the animal kills their buddy, give it a trophy for killing their buddy and leave with the buddy's they supposedly hate, while leaving the animal they luv more then their buddies, behind on earth. P. get back on your meds

 

[P.]

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard.

strange because you should hear a lot more in an asylum you are put in )
but well, you might consider everything from there being sane

Just curious...
What is your view, or the Thomas bros explanation given of the flintlock being given to Glover?
Rewarding the animal for killing the hunter? Showing respect for besting one of theirs?
Or is it not a reward? Or is there no answer if not from behind the scenes, or from the writers mouth?

they never commented anything except for predators being on earth for a long long time.
do you really need my (not Thomas because they didn' name any) idea of this?
i and i alone think that Greyback felt shame of his kind losing to mankind and gave away the thing he held as a remind of predators being better than humans.
i won't protect that idea but that's what i believe, seeing him slow and sad in that scene. shame.
again, i know greybeards very well, they are all *******s and hate the youth
there is no official explanation i can dig. both script writers and director say only one thing: a pistol of 17** depicts the age.
they might have made up something later, i didn't dig that, i stopped on early comments, thinking they were the most close to what they intended to show.

=========================

if predators were clannish (meaning going out for everyone in the clan) and wanted to compete with humans, they'd attack human military bases, and they'd do that in groups.
instead they went alone against no government forces, which shows they are individuals appreciating hunt pleasures but caring for their lifes, not "honor".

And what's with the acknowledgment or obvious show of respect of the (older) predator as they leave one by one... If he is not in any way a leader or "elder" of a group, clan or tribe or motley group or random modern individuals....or is it just choreography for the audience, or lack of room in the ship which causes them one by one to almost bump into the non leader...?

i do thihk he is a leader... for that tour.
he is the oldest, he hunted when others were kids (remember the ancient sword and the pistol), others appreciate his knowledge.
no matter what they pay him - preda-money or social respect - he is the coolest: he has XX century dogtags on him while others (at least P2) are on earth for the first time.
he's the strong guy, nobody sane can disrespect that.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

both P1 and P2 reject it, with their "killing invisibly" (lots of preys), "killing from a distance" (lots of preys), "killing the unarmed" (Mac), "killing from behind" (Blade), "killing the injured" (Poncho), "killing the unprepared" (...the guy with glasses whatshisname), "killing the unable to fight" (Danny hanging on one leg) and so on.
every aspect of an original predator sends yautja "honor code" to hell.
i've met yautja fans on forums, talking that original predators were "badbloods" as they violated the comics code a lot
and here is a yautja fan commenting predator creators for you. he believes in his religion though it's not based on original explanations but on users ideas. here's a comics for ya

Everything I said about the tribal/clan stuff was from P2. Not the comics.

I will always be a Predator and Alien movie fan before a comic fan. In fact AvP: Prey is the only A/P book I've read, and that was ages ago.

Bottom line: Greyback is the elder and leader of this very tribal clan of predators who have a somewhat loose sense of honor/respect.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

P. why didn't p2 kill the pregnant woman who was one of harrigans friends if what u said was true it would have gladly killed her. Or the unarmed woman in p1, if it was just to terrorize prey and watch them die. Everything that was made in the comics was taken directly from what was shown in scenes in the movies. Without the honor aspect of predators hunting worthy opponents, they just become another serial killer and everything that is cool about predators is lost.

This.

I think P. must have been blindfolded when he watched P2 and interpreted everything very, very wrong.

Like all those fanatical bible thumpers.

 

[a-dev]

https://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-illegal-hunting.htm#slideshow
the hunting methods of predators were based on hunting methods of humans.
kill males, there are lots of males and they are basically not needed except for breeding seasons.
never hunt little ones or females because they'll give more little ones.
if you kill the breed, you'll have no prey next season.
humans are always in "breeding season" so every human female is capable of bringing new prey around the year.
predators take humans for animals since P1. it was also commented as "predators like to hunt dangerous animals, and the most dangerous animal in the universe is a human".
note the word "animal"

predators don't have "opponents" and they are not "killers". they are hunters taking their sweet time.
and that is what is cool about predators not respecting anybody except themselves. (and getting their asses kicked suddenly in XX century by humanity developed enough).
again, i'm talking about original Thomas predators. not the popular protoss-caveman concept of yautja.

Damn, that makes sense. I've always bought into the idea of the predator honor code, rightly or wrongly. However this (P.s explanation for a Predator not killing human young) is quite plausible if you just consider what you see happen in the movies. Its not really about honorable kills in the broader picture, otherwise no predator would attack even armed prey while cloaked! with a lazer cannon! from up in a safe tree where the prey doesn't even know it is there in the first place! That $h!t isn't honorable. And yet, if memory serves the extras on the P2 DVD reveal that the writers of that film did intend for the predator's to have codes of honor. I would need to watch again to be sure but I could swear it was discussed.

I still dont know how dutch got clear of P1 bomb radius in P1 In P2 keys said the blast radius took out 300 city blocks of jungle right?

Mystery.

A-dev I think the bomb is their last ditch effort at victory even if it means they die too and it keeps their technology from other races hands.

It could certainly be about keeping Predator tech from human hands but not if you take AvP as canon where the elder gives whatshername a souvenir? There's no honor in it though (the bomb) and it has to come across as a bit of a sore loser scenario.

Well, technically leading the Predator to self-destruct isn't really killing him. Rather than finishing the job in P1, Arnold hesitated and let the creature finish itself and the rainforest off. In P2, Danny Glover took care of the self-destruct mechanism and legitimately beat it. That was worthy of recognition and thus he was met with respect rather than rage. A kill is a kill, and what happened in P1 was not.

I dunno, but you have made me think of something strange - Dutch, ironically considering Arnold's physical prowess, beat the Predator with cleverness. Harrigan, bizarrely for Danny ''I'm too old for this $h!t'' Glover, beat a predator in hand to hand combat! WTF!

both P1 and P2 reject it, with their "killing invisibly" (lots of preys), "killing from a distance" (lots of preys), "killing the unarmed" (Mac), "killing from behind" (Blade), "killing the injured" (Poncho), "killing the unprepared" (...the guy with glasses whatshisname), "killing the unable to fight" (Danny hanging on one leg) and so on.
every aspect of an original predator sends yautja "honor code" to hell.
i've met yautja fans on forums, talking that original predators were "badbloods" as they violated the comics code a lot
and here is a yautja fan commenting predator creators for you. he believes in his religion though it's not based on original explanations but on users ideas. here's a comics for ya

I really think these things from P1 that you mention fly in the face of the honor code that the creators of P2 speak of on the DVD extras. In that case I think P2 is....kinda wrong in its portrayal of the Predator race. They took the ''he didn't kill you because you weren't armed'' bit and ran with it and made up all sorts of stuff.

In a big game or dangerous game hunt many hunters have been killed by their prey. The hunter has become the hunted, that is the whole thrill behind a dangerous hunt it's not a defenseless animal, but a deadly opponent, be it animal, human, or alien. That is why harrigan was given the pistol, he won their respect, the ultimate prey beat the ultimate hunter.

While I've believed and always liked that idea I'm no longer sure how to reconcile it with P1

 

[demorathis]

they never commented anything except for predators being on earth for a long long time.
do you really need my (not Thomas because they didn' name any) idea of this?
i and i alone think that Greyback felt shame of his kind losing to mankind and gave away the thing he held as a remind of predators being better than humans.
i won't protect that idea but that's what i believe, seeing him slow and sad in that scene. shame.
again, i know greybeards very well, they are all *******s and hate the youth

Now that's just reading into the movie
Nothing denotes shame in Greyback...there's a tone of reverence over the death of one of their own ... But he is obviously a proud and stoic individual and has the posture to support confidence....which is why most viewers will think that he is the leader ( part of having a successful film is conveying the proper notions and the prevailing opinion of the vast majority of viewers is that Greyback comes off as the leader...( not to mention he is important enough to be portrayed by KPH)
If he hates the youth so much, is he in a dead end job that he also hates. Their cosmic bus driver...

 

[demorathis]

I guess Dutch has to succeed in killing the hunter before he gets a reward, and that's assuming there's another hunter around to witness the predators defeat, and that's assuming this witness has anything to give away...if he is feeling generous with his personal belongings, that is...

 

[P.]

Nothing denotes shame in Greyback...there's a tone of reverence over the death of one of their own

well i might be wrong about my seeing of that scene.
but, knowing that original script had Greyback decapitating the P2 for losing to a human...

which is why most viewers will think that he is the leader ( part of having a successful film is conveying the proper notions and the prevailing opinion of the vast majority of viewers is that Greyback comes off as the leader...

i do see he's the leader, too.
i just don't know if he is
1) a leader of a predator group leading them for many years
2) a leader of a hunt to earth where everybody is checked for being able to hunt "the most dangerous animal"
3) or just a master of the ship, offering his ship & guide to a bunch of reach guys ready to have a great adventure
i actually like all three variants.

 

[CollectorGuy]

Fact is dutch got lucky as ****! That bomb should have killed him too.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

I don't think they necessarily have a "code of honor". I don't think it's that serious of a concept to them to begin with.

Like, I don't see P1 taking off his armor and weapons to fight hand-to-hand with Arnold as him showing honor or respect for him, I imagine he's only doing that because he wants to make the finale of his hunt more challenging. More sport. More valuable trophy.

I think that with predators there's a natural sense of respect for worthy prey, but it's not some specific code written in predator law or anything.

AvP definitely went way too far with the "code of honor". Scar helping Lexa make weapons, the elder giving her his spear, her being blooded, etc, etc. The way it was handled in AvP: Prey (the book) was much more believable.

You didn't feel that Brokentusk was helping Machiko because he had some strong sense of honor/respect for her, but more because drastic and unforseen events took place, he needed help, and she was just there.

Then of course as they fight together their relationship develops and Brokentusk ends up seeing her as more than just a temporary tool to get the job done, but as a capable partner worthy of his respect.

At least that's how I remember it. I need to read the book again.

 

[fosing]

there is a reason why we refer to P2 city hunter as the short bus predator

gawd i love this thread: https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80223&page=6

 

[demorathis]

well i might be wrong about my seeing of that scene.
but, knowing that original script had Greyback decapitating the P2 for losing to a human...

i do see he's the leader, too.
i just don't know if he is
1) a leader of a predator group leading them for many years
2) a leader of a hunt to earth where everybody is checked for being able to hunt "the most dangerous animal"
3) or just a master of the ship, offering his ship & guide to a bunch of reach guys ready to have a great adventure
i actually like all three variants.

Would've loved to have seen a decapitation as punishment for losing to what should've been inferior game...

As far as the leadership the important thing is that elder, Greyback, is their leader...everything else is speculative...short bus....hehehe

 

[Rotfish]

I really think these things from P1 that you mention fly in the face of the honor code that the creators of P2 speak of on the DVD extras. In that case I think P2 is....kinda wrong in its portrayal of the Predator race. They took the ''he didn't kill you because you weren't armed'' bit and ran with it and made up all sorts of stuff.

Has anyone ever entertained the possibility that the Predator franchise hasn't had nearly as much thinking put into it as the Alien franchise? Or other, more intellectual films? True, the writers for P1 and P2 were the same but that doesn't mean they didn't let a few inconsistencies fly through here and there. They're action movies with a cool monster thrown in. Simple.

Another explanation could be that the P1 and P2 were different Predators and therefore hunted in different ways, each one with their own interpretation of whatever honor code (or unwritten hunting rules for P.) their species follows.

Having said these things, you can't possibly be surprised that different people like Paul W.S. Anderson, the Strauss b****es, and the comic writers and novelists want to take a stab and offer their take on the character. I'm not sure if anything is canon with this series and that's totally fine with me. Still a cool, unique movie monster and the movies (the original ones) are solid. That's good enough for me.

 

[fosing]

short bus pred really went for "worthy" prey...crackheads and thugs.
there was talk he crashed their ride, run amok and went on a hunting spree....then came crawling back after he made a booboo.

lord greyback was thankful for harrigan for putting him out down.

 

[a-dev]

Has anyone ever entertained the possibility that the Predator franchise hasn't had nearly as much thinking put into it as the Alien franchise? Or other, more intellectual films? True, the writers for P1 and P2 were the same but that doesn't mean they didn't let a few inconsistencies fly through here and there. They're action movies with a cool monster thrown in. Simple.

Probably true but -

Another explanation could be that the P1 and P2 were different Predators and therefore hunted in different ways, each one with their own interpretation of whatever honor code (or unwritten hunting rules for P.) their species follows.

I think I prefer that thought. Also plausible. ''We're all individuals!'' as Brian tried to tell the horde following him around in Monty Python's Life of. Why should one Predator behave in exactly the same way as another any moreso than one human will behave the same as another.

Having said these things, you can't possibly be surprised that different people like Paul W.S. Anderson, the Strauss b****es, and the comic writers and novelists want to take a stab and offer their take on the character. I'm not sure if anything is canon with this series and that's totally fine with me. Still a cool, unique movie monster and the movies (the original ones) are solid. That's good enough for me.

Yeah Predator is a modern classic, P2 is very good and I think Predators is decent.

 

[fosing]

^Predators was weak. cheesy, campy and a bit fun...but still weak. Predators comic sequel IS retarded. eff that goro predator.lolz

 

[P.]

there is a reason why we refer to P2 city hunter as the short bus predator

...and the reason is being ignorant.
P2 is a crazy predator hunting most dangerous situation, even his kind don't like him for being crazy and loving the danger. again according to authors and even KPH comments which seem to be unknown to most for some impossible reason )
he's more badass than P1 and (again according to... well you know) originally he went after a human who managed to kill a predator in P1, which puts him higher than P1 in his abilities.
he met face to face and survived what P1 was either avoiding or suffering from. sadly he was too happy about his superiority that it turned him into a dumbass.

 

[fosing]

you call him crazy, we call him short bus. tomato tomatoes. lolz

he was supposed to be an inexperienced hunter relying too much on gadgets. hunting crackheads with invisibility on is not dangerous.
losing his cover and leaving trails back to the ship he crashed is not crazy....its "special" in a short bus kinda way.

 

[RIDDICK]

I really think these things from P1 fly in the face of the honor code of P2 some speak. In that case I think P2 is... kinda wrong in its portrayal of the Predator. They took the ''he didn't kill you because you weren't armed'' bit and ran with it and made up all sorts of stuff.

Nothing in P2 contradicts anything from P1 if you watch them both in a row w/ comic-booky glasses off.

Also - https://youtu.be/WIAh_i5s5gA?t=8m58s