1/6 Hot Toys-The Terminator (T1)-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) 1/6 Scale Figure

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Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Apologies for the double post but man I wholeheartedly agree. My "favourite" of the bunch I had was the BD arnie with interchangeable arms as it was closest to the film but even back then I had absolutely no idea why they made the jacket sleeveless and the t shirt a burgundy colour. Pretty sure I got my mom to do a pretty decent paintjob on it

He was sleeveless because it was Arnold and they had to show his big arms...really. The T 1000 was TERRIBLE :lol The arms were too short and the legs didn't move :lol I also had the bike, which was too big and it had the letter "T" on the gas tank :lol They actually made one figure with the sunglasses and it came with the minigun, but the costume was wrong. He looked more like Dutch from predator :lol Ironically, the John Connor figure was the most movie accurate with the same costume and it came with a very film accurate bike.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Toy lines back then just didn't care. Even my parents didn't mind the violence :lol Predator had toys too :lol I really had the T2 figures when I was kid, and they were terrible. All I wanted as a kid was a clean non battle-damaged terminator figure with the sunglasses and the outfit from the movie, but instead, they just made a bunch of battle-damaged figures without the trademark costume. That's one of the reasons I love the MMS and DX10.

Toymakers didn't have much of a clue did they. I bought that crap because that's all they ****in' made. But I would have far preferred figures actually based on the movies and pretty much everyone says that.

Apart from t2 losing the slight horror overtones, I struggle to see a difference in the *************** of the two films. You have the blade through the throat of johns stepdad, spike through the eye of the pescadero guard etc which I think is as "adult" as anything in T1.

It seems that most people just have a problem with the violence and killing being from someone other than the T800, yet he's the protagonist. How many people did Reese kill again??

I think his kill count was about zero. So there's that which no one complains about in T1. And you also have Sarah Connor herself. Pretty much just a damsel in T1 but no one seems to hold that against the film. She progressed to a believable badass in T2 but that apparently counts for nothing, only the treatment of the T-800 matters it seems.
 
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Re: Hot Toys-The Terminator (T1) MMS 238 T-800 (Battle Damaged Version) Figure

Django unchained had toys (cancelled).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

But why do you guys seem to require that the T-800 be the baddie? Sure 'Bad to the bone' immediately signalled that he wasn't but then we got the T-1000 immediately killing a police officer. There's your threat. Did you guys just find the T-1000 to be an unimpressive villain? I know P. thinks he's a fantasy creature (in a universe that has time travel I must add) but what about you Kara?

Also this 'disconnect' you feel between the films - no, I just don't agree. Either for Terminator or for Alien. I agree that T1 has a horror tone, I agree that T2 is more of a blockbuster but they still seem like the same world to me, likewise Alien and Aliens. Scripts and character's all feel compatible even down to the cheese ''in the few hours we spent together we loved a lifetime's worth'' = ''if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too''

I mean to complain about the 'bigger budget' aspect is like to complain that they didn't make exactly the same film again (as Holtrax is saying above). I'm sure you wouldn't want that therefore you must be more of the opinion that no sequel should ever have been made?
I think the financial and technical constraints contributed to T1 being a better overall movie. Of course, filmmakers will always take as many resources as they can. But while in theory it should make them better able to convey a creative vision, in many cases the evidence of films where filmmakers had less tend to be better than when they had more. Again, my opinion, but off the top of my head I would say Lucas, Cameron, Spielberg, Neill Blomkamp, and Sergio Leone fit into this group. Similarly, I've seen it with lots of musical artists.

I like T-1000, but it never felt to me like he was a genuine threat to John. And I'm not saying that Terminator or Alien are cheese-free, they just seem like completely different entities to my eyes, for different reasons. The characters in Alien come across to me as more genuine than characters have in nearly any other a sci-fi or horror movie. Not the case in Aliens, though I actually prefer Aliens. In Terminator, the characters seem rougher, the humans more flawed and vulnerable, and there is an ugly, unpolished aesthetic, fitting for a horror movie. In T2, the characters seem more polished and attractive, the escapes seem more fanciful, there are more moments for the audience to cheer on, as fitting for an action movie. No dead cat smell when T2 T-800 got shot up, for example. Put all that together, and the story-based connections seem less significant to me. Similarly, it's hard for me to really think of Evil Dead and Army of Darkness as really telling different parts of the same story. They are night and day.

Every single criticism that's being thrown at T2 (unfairly IMO) I would readily throw at T3.
I've never said that T2 is unsuccessful as a movie, or at what it sets out to do. I like T2 a lot. My criticism, if you want to call it that, is that it, and the T-800 in it, are extremely different from T1, and aren't in the same spirit. So ultimately, my criticisms are based on my perception that they don't naturally fit together as parts of the same franchise. But when I'm in the mood for a fun, somewhat intelligent action movie, T2 is on my list of options with movies like Die Hard and some of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies. But I wouldn't watch T1 when I'm in that kind of mood.

And something people seem to be missing is that the Terminator from the first film is the same character as the second. The same being or entity? No. But the same character. It has development and a thought provoking arc, just like Sarah. A film character that can be taken and have the gears change to be depicted in a newer, different light, while STILL being more or less the same is fascinating.
While that's clearly the intention, I don't see it that way because he never feels like he's the same character from the first scene. Sure, he "would" have killed those guys when John stopped him, but he didn't. For the purpose of the story, and the relationship the audience was building with that character, there was no chance it was going to happen. As an audience member, you know it's not going to happen at that point. Again, Cameron is pretty deliberate about this IMO, and it's great for the story he is telling, but the menacing killer T-800 never really exists in T2, and couldn't exist for the audience to empathize for, and cheer for him as they did.

Was Aliens made for kids? Just I seem to remember an entire line of toys based on it.
Yes, but they came out nearly a decade after the film, so I don't know if that counts. Alien actually had a toy line planned, but they were scrapped when Kenner realized the type of movie they were based off of. I don't think Cameron considered young kids a major demographic for Aliens, but maybe teens, sure.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

He was sleeveless because it was Arnold and they had to show his big arms...really. The T 1000 was TERRIBLE :lol The arms were too short and the legs didn't move :lol I also had the bike, which was too big and it had the letter "T" on the gas tank :lol They actually made one figure with the sunglasses and it came with the minigun, but the costume was wrong. He looked more like Dutch from predator :lol Ironically, the John Connor figure was the most movie accurate with the same costume and it came with a very film accurate bike.

I still have a couple of that connor figure, apart from him being useless off the bike due to his handlebar arms he's actually pretty good for the time. Aha I remember the mini gun one too, it was tiny and was held in one of his hands by the most useless of plastic pegs. The blast apart one with the shotgun was a nightmare too, just fell apart in your hands. Yet over ten years earlier kenner made the decently sculpted and film accurate Star Wars figs. Madness

Toymakers didn't have much of a clue did they. I bought that crap because that's all they ****in' made. But I would have far preferred figures actually based on the movies and pretty much everyone says that.



I think his kill count was about zero. So there's that which no one complains about in the perfect T1. And you also have Sarah Connor herself. Pretty much just a damsel in T1 but no one seems to hold that against the film. She progressed to a believable badass in T2 but that apparently counts for nothing, only the treatment of the T-800 matters it seems.

Yep, he doesn't even kill the hobo who he steals the pants from. I never knew if this was just fan rumour or had a grain of truth but wasn't the t1000 originally going to be played by Michael Biehn before Cameron thought it would be too confusing? If this had panned out I wonder how many of the T2 haters would complain that Kyle "wasn't a cold killing machine" :)
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

I think the financial and technical constraints contributed to T1 being a better overall movie. Of course, filmmakers will always take as many resources as they can. But while in theory it should make them better able to convey a creative vision, in many cases the evidence of films where filmmakers had less tend to be better than when they had more. Again, my opinion, but off the top of my head I would say Lucas, Cameron, Spielberg, Neill Blomkamp, and Sergio Leone fit into this group. Similarly, I've seen it with lots of musical artists.

I like T-1000, but it never felt to me like he was a genuine threat to John. And I'm not saying that Terminator or Alien are cheese-free, they just seem like completely different entities to my eyes, for different reasons. The characters in Alien come across to me as more genuine than characters have in nearly any other a sci-fi or horror movie. Not the case in Aliens, though I actually prefer Aliens. In Terminator, the characters seem rougher, the humans more flawed and vulnerable, and there is an ugly, unpolished aesthetic, fitting for a horror movie. In T2, the characters seem more polished and attractive, the escapes seem more fanciful, there are more moments for the audience to cheer on, as fitting for an action movie. No dead cat smell when T2 T-800 got shot up, for example. Put all that together, and the story-based connections seem less significant to me. Similarly, it's hard for me to really think of Evil Dead and Army of Darkness as really telling different parts of the same story. They are night and day.


I've never said that T2 is unsuccessful as a movie, or at what it sets out to do. I like T2 a lot. My criticism, if you want to call it that, is that it, and the T-800 in it, are extremely different from T1, and aren't in the same spirit. So ultimately, my criticisms are based on my perception that they don't naturally fit together as parts of the same franchise. But when I'm in the mood for a fun, somewhat intelligent action movie, T2 is on my list of options with movies like Die Hard and some of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies. But I wouldn't watch T1 when I'm in that kind of mood.


While that's clearly the intention, I don't see it that way because he never feels like he's the same character from the first scene. Sure, he "would" have killed those guys when John stopped him, but he didn't. For the purpose of the story, and the relationship the audience was building with that character, there was no chance it was going to happen. As an audience member, you know it's not going to happen at that point. Again, Cameron is pretty deliberate about this IMO, and it's great for the story he is telling, but the menacing killer T-800 never really exists in T2, and couldn't exist for the audience to empathize for, and cheer for him as they did.


Yes, but they came out nearly a decade after the film, so I don't know if that counts. Alien actually had a toy line planned, but they were scrapped when Kenner realized the type of movie they were based off of. I don't think Cameron considered young kids a major demographic for Aliens, but maybe teens, sure.

I accept a lot of what you're saying as a reason, if one is so inclined, to prefer T1. And in all my posts today I'm not trying to tell people that T2 is a better film. By all means prefer T1, I love T1.

What I don't understand and take issue with is how T2 apparently doesn't fit with T1 and cannot be considered part of the same continuity or something, as though its an elseworlds tale (as though its T3 basically!). On that point about the only thing I agree on that seems inconsistent is the flesh rotting thing. In T1 the T-800 is pale and clammy and apparently stinking out the place with his wounds while in T2, Arnold's cool image is maintained at all times. And you know the only reason is because 'Arnold must look cool at all times'. That's about it. Everything else fits just fine for me.

The more fanciful escapes? Yeah its because the budget was bigger and sequels are generally required to be bigger etc etc but even that can be rationalised within the movie - the heroes have a T-800, he can do more than Kyle Reese could and not be risking his own life in the process. Things like climbing from one fast-moving vehicle onto another and firing an M16 through the windshield etc etc. Kyle Reese would have died doing something similar.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

The second T-800 didn't rot because he didn't have gaping wounds until the end. At that point, he didn't have them long enough to start decaying.

Or at least, it seems movie-reasonable enough to me as an explanation.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

What I don't understand and take issue with is how T2 apparently doesn't fit with T1 and cannot be considered part of the same continuity or something, as though its an elseworlds tale (as though its T3 basically!).
It seems a bit like an ideological or religious argument--folks just can't easily see it from the other guys' point of view :D But to say that they seem like they are from different continuities doesn't mean that one sucks, or that they couldn't be more different.

The more fanciful escapes? Yeah its because the budget was bigger and sequels are generally required to be bigger etc etc but even that can be rationalised within the movie - the heroes have a T-800, he can do more than Kyle Reese could and not be risking his own life in the process. Things like climbing from one fast-moving vehicle onto another and firing an M16 through the windshield etc etc. Kyle Reese would have died doing something similar.
Well you could rationalize it that way, except the '80s had humans doing stuff like that all the time, Arnold included (Commando, Predator, Conan, etc.)! :D I'm OK with folks not agreeing with me on all this, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. It's all good fun in my view. I've enjoyed our discussions about all this, so I'm sorry that recently you and Difab seem to be getting genuinely upset about some of it. It isn't like any of this really matters very much, or affects our respective love of these films.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

These things you T1ers keep picking on T2 for - the not killing - when you analyse it in T1 it just wouldn't seem to make sense.
))
"you T2ers" mistake a result for a reason.
so instead of explaining the result you try to justify or even nullify the reason (like Difabio and Kuat did), and it will always sound fake )
the whole new concept of skynet and terminators and the overall mood caused by it is the difference, "you T2ers" have to ignore it for a goal of uniting the movies into one universe, while they are completely different.

All that matters is that the films are good and internally plausible, which they both are.
there are, i think, thousands of good movies. one of them is about a skynet and its creation terminator, another is about family and friendship.

It seems a bit like an ideological or religious argument--folks just can't easily see it from the other guys' point of view :D But to say that they seem like they are from different continuities doesn't mean that one sucks, or that they couldn't be more different.
exactly.
i really don't get all that anger from "T2ers". it looks like they do understand the differences actually but do their best of ignoring them. it's like saying that P2 didn't have more comics, exaggerated characters than P1, while it definitely had, like being based on comics, exaggerated characters (if the concrete jungle story really was a base for the movie. it fits in timeline).
 
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Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Damn I love the digression this thread has taken...and how so many fans care more about all the stuff more than James Cameron ever will. Reminds me of high school English class 15 years ago analyzing Shakespear and poems and trying to find meaning in every little nuance and symbolism when there was none :)
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Damn I love the digression this thread has taken...and how so many fans care more about all the stuff more than James Cameron ever will. Reminds me of high school English class 15 years ago analyzing Shakespear and poems and trying to find meaning in every little nuance and symbolism when there was none :)

James Cameron definitely cares a lot about Terminator. It's obvious when you read all of the unnecessary details in the script. Arnold, on the other hand, doesn't give a ****. He only cares about what the movie poster looks like and what they are selling, those are his own words. :lol Smart man.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

I actually think its you T1ers (is that gonna catch on?) who are resentful of the general preference for T2 (as demonstrated by the fact it tends to win all the polls) and that's why you guys seize every possible opportunity to attack T2 - such as Leon911's recent post about the T-1000, which I knew KNEW y'all were gonna jump on.

As I said, I love both films, I love both films as Terminator films made by the same creator with the same vision. So I'm not even a 'T2er' strictly speaking. I'm defending it and bigging it up because it - a legitimately great film - gets attacked by you guys. Look, Cameron isn't Lucas, he knew when to stop. There was talk of a Terminator 3 from very early on and he decided that no, it was done. He had expended all his ideas over the 2 films, he felt it worked as a 2 film story and that a third would just be tacked on. He also doesn't revisit his films and force people to only watch his latest version with unnecessary and unwanted changes. I think he can be trusted on this, it goes T1 and T2, everything else, well they can do what want but they aren't part of what he did. Why can't you guys be like normal people and just hate T3 and T4?!

i really don't get all that anger from "T2ers". it looks like they do understand the differences actually but do their best of ignoring them.

No, what we're doing is we're watching a great entertaining film and not looking for any possible reason whatsoever to punch holes in it. If its a crap film by all means punch away but we're not talking about Attack of the Clones here (I actually think Revenge of the Sith is worse but I'll use AOTC as an example because its commonly considered the worst SW film). Why look for reasons to discount the film when there are so many more obvious reasons to embrace it as part of the true canon even if you still prefer the first film. We're giving the creator James Cameron the benefit of any doubt* and seeing his POV - ''OK, yeah, you can have a T-800 on the side of humanity, it's easily explainable and it doesn't contradict or mess with the first film'' etc etc. Even if you must look for problems pretty much everything can be rationalised and/or compared with T1 to find similar ''issues''.

* And I'll grant you I give George Lucas no benefit of any doubt but then he has only 2 decent films in his entire career (American Graffitti and SW IV) and he had the least credited involvement with what people consider the best Star Wars film, ESB. Cameron, excluding T2, has T1, Aliens, True Lies, The Abyss, Titanic, Avatar - all at the least very successful films and at best modern classics.

it's like saying that P2 didn't have more comics, exaggerated characters than P1, while it definitely had, like being based on comics, exaggerated characters (if the concrete jungle story really was a base for the movie. it fits in timeline).

Not sure what you mean here, but don't you prefer P2 over P1?


I've enjoyed our discussions about all this, so I'm sorry that recently you and Difab seem to be getting genuinely upset about some of it. It isn't like any of this really matters very much, or affects our respective love of these films.

I don't know what you're talking about man. I'm totally aloof.


 
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Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Before I joined this forum I had no idea people disliked T2
 
Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Colle...

I mean, despite all the facts, opinions and point of views.

They are quite clearly in the same universe, T2 is a continuation of T1. It's not really arguable because the man made them to be that way
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Colle...

I mean, despite all the facts, opinions and point of views.

They are quite clearly in the same universe, T2 is a continuation of T1. It's not really arguable because the man made them to be that way

:goodpost:

That's it in a nutshell, doesn't really matter which film you like, T1 OR T2 they are bound together as a story. I like both films for different reasons, nether one offends me in anyway. Now T3 is a different story, complete garbage and not truly part of the canon story, same can be said for T4 but I still think its a cool film even with its many flaws.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Most people don't. In fact, most people think it's better than T1. Do you know why? Because it is better! Muhahaha!!

:lol

I aint even saying that. I think preferring T1 is a perfectly legitimate position - seeing Arnold playing the bad guy and doing it well (not like say, Mr Freeze) is reason enough and also the film is very well paced. It has great side characters like Traxler and Vulkovich, Silberman etc. Its also the original film, may have particular nostalgia value for some people and its more dated effects do have a charm about them as opposed to being off-putting.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

:lol

I aint even saying that. I think preferring T1 is a perfectly legitimate position - seeing Arnold playing the bad guy and doing it well (not like say, Mr Freeze) is reason enough and also the film is very well paced. It has great side characters like Traxler and Vulkovich, Silberman etc. Its also the original film, may have particular nostalgia value for some people and its more dated effects do have a charm about them as opposed to being off-putting.

:exactly: I love T1, but I prefer T2. Without T1 there's no T2.
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Colle...

I mean, despite all the facts, opinions and point of views.

They are quite clearly in the same universe, T2 is a continuation of T1. It's not really arguable because the man made them to be that way
If we accept this, though, must we also accept that the Star Wars prequels, Godfather 3, and The Two Jakes are also part of the same "universe" as the earlier, vastly superior films that they followed?
 
Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Colle...

If we accept this, though, must we also accept that the Star Wars prequels, Godfather 3, and The Two Jakes are also part of the same "universe" as the earlier, vastly superior films that they followed?

No not at all. All we're asking is that you like what we like and don't like what we don't like. Now why can't you do that?

yes that's me basically acknowledging that continued debate is pointless
 
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