House Burns Down, Pets Die While Fireman Watch

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And imagine if they did put out the fire, next round of billing no one pays their fee cause why pay if they they put out the fire for those that don't pay. Then this FD drops the service all together and this township is then left with nothing.

That wouldn't happen at all. Your example is the most of extreme examples you could possibly go with. People in that area would not think oh I'm just gonna stop paying. They're virtually more than likely gonna think and thank the firemen for doing what their jobs are.

I don't see how anyone can blame the fire dept on this one. Responsibility lies with the family and the kid who started the fire. As horrible as it is - it is their fault their pets are dead.

Really? You go into that line of work to protect people and their homes from fire (not talking about the pets). Those guys and their chief are in the wrong line of work if this is how they do things. Even the IAFF came out and hammered these guys for their actions.
 
Really? You go into that line of work to protect people and their homes from fire (not talking about the pets). Those guys and their chief are in the wrong line of work if this is how they do things. Even the IAFF came out and hammered these guys for their actions.

They stated that if there were people in that house - then they would have done what they could to protect/save them regardless if they had paid the fee or not. As others said it's like having car/home insurance or even health insurance. You dont' pay - you don't get the services they provide. As simple as that. If you can't afford it - I'm sure there are avenues they could have taken (beforehand of course) to get some kind of charity or something to help pay. If it was simply - I've never needed this service so why the hell should I pay it - well you roll the dice and sometimes you lose. How is that the fireman's fault if you are willing to gamble on your home and possessions?
 
They stated that if there were people in that house - then they would have done what they could to protect/save them regardless if they had paid the fee or not. As others said it's like having car/home insurance or even health insurance. You dont' pay - you don't get the services they provide. As simple as that. If you can't afford it - I'm sure there are avenues they could have taken (beforehand of course) to get some kind of charity or something to help pay. If it was simply - I've never needed this service so why the hell should I pay it - well you roll the dice and sometimes you lose. How is that the fireman's fault if you are willing to gamble on your home and possessions?

Their job is to save the home. Plain and simple. They where there and thats there job. Trust me I think I have a bit of an inside knowledge on the subject. Not to mention as I said the firefighters main group the IAFF is saying they ____ed up. Might be a good idea to trust those that have the knowledge As far as these people paying from my understanding it wasn't not paid because they didn't need the service.

Its not the same as car/home insurance. It is similar to health insurance which hospitals/ambulances are required to help take care of you no matter if you can pay or not.
 
yes it can.

A large scale building fire it could, wilderness fires, or what the insurance coverage that they pick up. The cost for a basic house fire though for something like that doesn't cost 20k to put out. At least not the department unless like I said its a VERY large scale fire.
 
Well here's a question for you Josh since you know so much on the subject. I've read this argument below many times:

The South Fulton Fire Department surely has it's own insurance policy to cover it's fire fighters and equipment. However, if this policy only covers fire department actions in South Fulton and other specified actions such as with property owners outside of South Fulton who paid for fire protection, then fighting this fire might not have been covered under it's insurance policy.

If a fire fighter had been injured fighting a fire for which the South Fulton fire department had no coverage, how would South Fulton officials explain this to South Fulton taxpayers and the fire fighters' families?

Is this true? If a firefighter were killed or injured fighting a fire for someone who did not pay for the service - would that fire fighter's family then be screwed because it voided the dept's insurance?

A lot of people are bringing this up - though I don't know if it is true or not.

If it is true - well then, I don't blame the dept at all. The guy had homeowner's insurance so he'll get some of his money back for his property...and the county is now voting on a new bill to raise everyone's taxes and insure all it's citizens have fire protection - so something good can come of something bad.

Even this guy's wife said she didn't blame the fire dept - they were abiding by that county's laws.
 
Well, what they could do in that situation is do whats called surround and drown. Basically do the best they can by putting it out from the outside.

Honestly, if there was someone in the house thats easy to explain. In this situation thats why I say you do the surround and drown.

No, I don't think so. I would be shocked beyond shocked that they wouldn't have some kind of coverage that protects the guys while on the job. I'm pretty sure this is the policy the department here is something quite similar.

Thats what we have around here is everyone pays a tax so everyone is "guaranteed" coverage.

I blame the fire department for not even making an effort on the surround and drown.

I'll see if I can get Dad to pop on here and see if he can talk about how exactly everything is covered here.
 
Well here's a question for you Josh since you know so much on the subject. I've read this argument below many times:

The South Fulton Fire Department surely has it's own insurance policy to cover it's fire fighters and equipment. However, if this policy only covers fire department actions in South Fulton and other specified actions such as with property owners outside of South Fulton who paid for fire protection, then fighting this fire might not have been covered under it's insurance policy.

If a fire fighter had been injured fighting a fire for which the South Fulton fire department had no coverage, how would South Fulton officials explain this to South Fulton taxpayers and the fire fighters' families?

Is this true? If a firefighter were killed or injured fighting a fire for someone who did not pay for the service - would that fire fighter's family then be screwed because it voided the dept's insurance?

A lot of people are bringing this up - though I don't know if it is true or not.

If it is true - well then, I don't blame the dept at all. The guy had homeowner's insurance so he'll get some of his money back for his property...and the county is now voting on a new bill to raise everyone's taxes and insure all it's citizens have fire protection - so something good can come of something bad.

Even this guy's wife said she didn't blame the fire dept - they were abiding by that county's laws.

I don't blame the firemen, I blame the policy. This was bound to happen sooner or later. I'm glad they're changing it so everyone is covered and this doesn't happen again.

As for insurance, the county should cover them. I doubt their insurance wouldn't cover them helping a house that didn't pay it's fee but would for someone who did. Wouldn't make sense.
 
I don't blame the firemen, I blame the policy. This was bound to happen sooner or later. I'm glad they're changing it so everyone is covered and this doesn't happen again.

As for insurance, the county should cover them. I doubt their insurance wouldn't cover them helping a house that didn't pay it's fee but would for someone who did. Wouldn't make sense.

Yeah I'm sure after this event producing an example the policy will get amended and hopefully something that will make sense.
 
And you can't have it both ways. You either agree with one or the other. :dunno

I did agree with one. Guy who refused to pay = stupid decision. But the firemen/policy that allowed those animals to be killed due to their owner making that stupid decision was probably worse.

I agree that such laws can't be based on a case-by-case deal. If you make a law, you should stick with it. Just saying that the law itself had some pretty big moral holes.
 
As a professional firefighter myself, and as a member of the IAFF, I can tell you the only ones who screwed up here were the homeowners. And while it might be tempting or fashionable to blame the FD [based on media sensationalism] for not doing the "right thing" here, that is exactly what they did do in this instance. They followed the rules and regulations as dictated by their FD and in accordance to municipality by-laws. And while I'm sure none of them willingly wanted to watch the house burn, legally speaking, their hands were tied.
I can also tell you that as an officer, I would never allow any of my men to risk their lives to save some animals......ever. I don't care what type of animals, or how many....my #1 priority is the safety of those under my command, everything else is secondary. And to those who say they had they been there they would have attempted to rescue those animals in spite of the direct orders not to do so....really???? You'ld risk your life, not to mention the lives of the firefighters who had to go in to try and save you....for some dogs and a cat?

Do I feel bad about the family pets that persished in this fire...absolutely. But this is not an issue about FD or municipal negligence, it is about personal accountability. I for one am getting sick and tired of people neglecting their own personal responsibilities, then blaming others when things go wrong, or expecting others to pay for their mistakes. These people were well aware of the Fire Service by-law, and they were well aware of the consequences of not paying that $75 annual fee....and they chose not to pay it anyway.

Now I'm sure these folks won't have any trouble findiing a sleazy enough lawyer to take their case should they decide to sue, but it won't go anywhere. On the other hand, can you imagine what would happen had the FD put out the fire in spite of them not paying the annual fee. Every homeowner could then stop paying that fee, and could sue the FD in case of a fire where they don't show up because they had done it previously. Once the precedent is set, good luck every getting another penny out of that municipalities homeowners.

And as for the IAFF bashing the South Fulton FD....of course they did. The IAFF does not like volunteer Fire Dept's and if they had their way every FD in the US and Canada would be unionized. And while their concern is very heartwarming, it's also more than a little disingenuous.
As a professional firefighter in Canada's largest city [ with 25 years experience] I cannot work as volunteer FD in my nearby hometown. I could lose my union card [which would directly lead to me being fired], should I try to help those living in my community, as would any other IAFF union firefighter. If the IAFF really cared about these small communites and the residents living in them they would allow those of us with a vast amount of experience to serve part-time in these communites....but they are dead set against it.
 
And while it might be tempting or fashionable to blame the FD [based on media sensationalism] for not doing the "right thing" here, that is exactly what they did do in this instance.

I don't think anybody is blaming the FD. It sure as hell isn't the "fashionable" thing to do, anyway. :slap The blame falls squarely on the community as a whole who allowed for such a situation to happen. The only "fashionable" thing going on here is this country's hard-on for eliminating funding for programs like the FD and thinking it would smart (or even possible) to privatize government services like the FD of PD.
 
Good post Woodsy - that cleared up some questions I had. I agree with what you said - and hopefully something horrible will come out of this situation and policy will be changed.
 
I don't think anybody is blaming the FD. It sure as hell isn't the "fashionable" thing to do, anyway. :slap The blame falls squarely on the community as a whole who allowed for such a situation to happen. The only "fashionable" thing going on here is this country's hard-on for eliminating funding for programs like the FD and thinking it would smart (or even possible) to privatize government services like the FD of PD.

Well I guess you haven't watched much TV in the past week 'cause the media's been all over this story.....and plenty of those commentators have been slamming the South Fulton FD.

Since nobodies even remotely been talking about or suggesting the privatization of Fire Dept's I don't have a clue what you're talking about....:confused:

Good post Woodsy - that cleared up some questions I had. I agree with what you said - and hopefully something horrible will come out of this situation and policy will be changed.

Thank's Jen,

By our very nature we seem to wait until something awful happens before we make changes and no doubt, that's exactly what will happen here.
 
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Since nobodies even remotely been talking about or suggesting the privatization of Fire Dept's I don't have a clue what you're talking about....:confused:

It's a big issue in the states and I think that's that's the path that communities like this are putting us on. That's why I brought it up. I just hope people learn from this mess.
 
It's a big issue in the states and I think that's that's the path that communities like this are putting us on. That's why I brought it up. I just hope people learn from this mess.

I know a few smaller US cities experimented with this about 10 years ago and the results were not good. I think within a year or two every one of them went back to gov't operated dept's. Those cities however, employed full-time unionized firefighters and the cities tried to save some money by tendering contracts to private companies. Towns and communities that don't have the money for full-time dept's have to depend on volunteers and their fire service costs are significantly less. There is no way these communities would consider privatization of their FD's as it would cost the residents of these communities significantly more money having private companies provide full-time service for them.
 
Well I guess you haven't watched much TV in the past week 'cause the media's been all over this story.....and plenty of those commentators have been slamming the South Fulton FD.

Then you haven't been watching FOX because they are so against the homeowner that some have resorted to even making fun of the way he talks.

Southern = dummy in their eyes. :cuckoo:

The whole thing is just inconceivable to so many because the majority of areas don't use policies like this. It's stupid and an accident waiting to happen. In this case, it did.
 
woodsy, that was a great post. :duff

Ween, you're a doll.

Well paying for the service through taxes is Socialism good sir, and only Godless UnAmerican Communists support THAT. :cuckoo:

Being forced to pay--through taxes--for the services that other people want to use, but don't want to pay for, is socialism.

And only people who learned nothing from WWII support that.

Sheesh. Next thing you know, you'll be expected to have to pay when you go to the hospital too-
Oh, wait...

:lol

:rock :rock :rock
 
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